Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 14 minutes ago, Spockydog said: The following article is from November. Another half-dozen Starmer promises have been binned since then. ----- Keir Starmer’s broken promises will come back to haunt him (and Labour) Britain’s Labour leader was elected as a left-winger, but then ran to the right. Why would voters trust anything he says? I think the difference is rather than Starmer breaking his promises, it's more that he made promises he cannot and probably could never keep. Now he is closer to power he has probably realised it. The article is right that essentially the electorate has very few choices when it comes to who is in power, no big ideas or choices are really up for grabs, it's all fiddling around the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) Most of the things he promised would be easily attainable if he were to close all tax loopholes and start taxing corporations and the rich so that everybody pays their faire share. Easy. Unfortunately, that is against the interests of the people pulling Starmer's strings, so us plebs can go and fucking whistle. Edited May 15 by Spockydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 9 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Most of the things he promised would be easily attainable if he were to close all tax loopholes and start taxing corporations and the rich so that everybody pays their faire share. Easy. Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) Estimates of the amount of UK tax evaded, avoided, whatever you want to call it, range between £34bn and £60bn a year, depending on where you get your news. Estimated cost of renationalizing the UK's energy grid is around £50bn. And, seriously, how much public resistance do you think there would be to a firm commitment to offer voters a not-for-profit option when choosing their energy supplier? Edited May 15 by Spockydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 48 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Estimates of the amount of UK tax evaded, avoided, whatever you want to call it, range between £34bn and £60bn a year, depending on where you get your news. Estimated cost of renationalizing the UK's energy grid is around £50bn. And, seriously, how much public resistance do you think there would be to a firm commitment to offer voters a not-for-profit option when choosing their energy supplier? I think you just want stupidly simple answers every single time on almost every topic. It's not like fixing tax avoidance is easy or simple and Starmer clearly knows that and the closer he gets to government the more he realises the limits to his power. Tax for huge corporations is not something governments get to demand, it's basically a negotiation because of the global nature of business, thats a simple reality. Even on a small scale, for instance closing IR35 loopholes to remove tax avoidance, well that sounds great but has been a massive fucking disaster and has screwed a lot of people. Again, no simple answers, sorry Spocky. And then you want to spend £50bn on renationalising the energy grid!? For what benefit? How much will that bring down global energy prices? You want to abolish tuition fees? Great idea, how much is that going to cost since Blair pushed so many people to go and get pointless degrees so they can work in supermarket? Obviously these ideas sound brilliant if you don't have to actually implement them. Free money sounds brilliant, who doesn't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) The same old tired and lazy 'but, but, but it's too complicated or expensive to do the right thing so let's not even bother trying.' Zzzzzzzzz...... Edited May 15 by Spockydog Prince of the North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 10 minutes ago, Spockydog said: The same old tired and lazy 'but, but, but it's too complicated or expensive to do the right thing so let's not even bother trying.' Zzzzzzzzz...... Yeah sorry Spocky, I’m sorry real life is more complex than you’d like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/low-birthrate-is-uk-top-priority-tory-mp-tells-rightwing-conference-miriam-cates Quote Low birthrate is UK’s top priority, Tory MP tells rightwing conference ‘Cultural Marxism’ and excessive education among factors causing existential threat, says Miriam Cates ... “When culture, schools and universities openly teach that our country is racist, our heroes are villains, humanity is killing the Earth, you are what you desire, diversity is theology, boundaries are tyranny and self-restraint is oppression, is it any wonder that mental health conditions, self-harm and suicide, and epidemic levels of anxiety and confusion characterise the emerging generation?” ... Yep, that's the problem with this country in a nutshell, our young women have too much education, access to too many facts, and too much leeway to use their brains... They just need to get back to knowing their place, (and only their place); toiling on a fruit farm for less than minimum wage and probably illegal work conditions (but don't worry, they'll be legal and then some soon); and popping out babies in the off-season. Erm... Edited May 15 by Which Tyler Crixus, Heartofice and Spockydog 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 47 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/low-birthrate-is-uk-top-priority-tory-mp-tells-rightwing-conference-miriam-cates Yep, that's the problem with this country in a nutshell, our young women have too much education, access to too many facts, and too much leeway to use their brains... They just need to get back to knowing their place, (and only their place); toiling on a fruit farm for less than minimum wage and probably illegal work conditions (but don't worry, they'll be legal and then some soon); and popping out babies in the off-season. Erm... Lol cos that’s exactly what was said wasn’t it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Oh well someone from momentum said something so it must be based on reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 24 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Lol cos that’s exactly what was said wasn’t it Yes. “Spending so much time and money on education...” = "too much education" “When culture, schools and universities openly teach that our country is racist, our heroes are villains, humanity is killing the Earth..." = "access to too many facts" Granted, she doesn't specify "too much leeway to use their brains" - but I think that's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw from her dislike of excessive education and excessive facts Prince of the North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 6 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: Yes. “Spending so much time and money on education...” = "too much education" “When culture, schools and universities openly teach that our country is racist, our heroes are villains, humanity is killing the Earth..." = "access to too many facts" Granted, she doesn't specify "too much leeway to use their brains" - but I think that's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw from her dislike of excessive education and excessive facts Er.. “Many graduates are saddled with debt, and so are unable to afford to buy a house and start a family. “Spending so much time and money on education also makes it much more difficult, particularly for women, to decide when is a good time to pause and have children.” Not representative of your snarky comment, and also completely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 The conference in question is a US import that previously didn't get much traction, but now is going international with this nativist nonsense. The theme, unofficially, is 'white people* don't behave as we'd like them to'. They don't have enough babies. They go to university. They don't want to work in certain jobs. They think wrong. The number of self-proclaimed libertarians attending this conference to complain that people are using their freedom wrong is certainly entertaining. But again it just illustrates the point: the modern Conservative party has nothing to say to most voters under 50 except 'you're doing your life wrong'. *sorry, 'British people'. They literally grandfather in some immigrants. Only the right ones though. The ones that vote Tory and don't have too many babies. Prince of the North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Zorral 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 The answer to the problem of too many people getting saddled with debt from education to be able to have lotsa babies is to make education less of a financial burden, not to have less education. Was the speaker at the right-wing conference advocating for tuition free university education? Colour me surprised if that was the message. Which Tyler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: The answer to the problem of too many people getting saddled with debt from education to be able to have lotsa babies is to make education less of a financial burden, not to have less education. Was the speaker at the right-wing conference advocating for tuition free university education? Colour me surprised if that was the message. Probably because nobody could seriously advocate for tuition free university education in a world where so many people go to university to study for pointless degrees that are almost no benefit to them or society as a whole. Either way, the real solution is to fix the housing market, and fix childcare. Most couples just cannot afford to have children, mainly because housing costs are too high and kids are expensive. Then when you do have children you either have the choice to quit your job and look after then or keep working and pay eye watering amounts to nurseries. Quite often it’s cheaper to not work. Despite recent noises there is little sign of anyone really fixing the housing market, mainly because we have become slaves to a low interest rate economy and inability to build new houses. Overall though, putting serious barriers in place preventing people having children is a real problem, it’s amazing that nobody even worried about it till now, instead thinking immigration was the sticking plaster to solve the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 45 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Probably because nobody could seriously advocate for tuition free university education in a world where so many people go to university to study for pointless degrees that are almost no benefit to them or society as a whole. Overall though, putting serious barriers in place preventing people having children is a real problem, it’s amazing that nobody even worried about it till now, instead thinking immigration was the sticking plaster to solve the problem This post is stupid on so many different levels I had to log in juste to salute the performance. Zorral and Week 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, Rippounet said: This post is stupid on so many different levels I had to log in juste to salute the performance. i disagree with HOI on almost everything, but the amount of people going to university that have no business going to university, and leaving with 50 grands worth of debt and no discernible skills is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, Rippounet said: This post is stupid on so many different levels I had to log in juste to salute the performance. Lol, ok go on, tell me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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