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Eurovision 2023: Liverpool (May 9, 11, Grand Final 13)


Ran
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I think the live performance from the UK was a part of its downfall. A lot of songs sound great in the recording where you realize the performance was constructed in the studio to an inordinate degree. Cha Cha Cha for example, second half sounds effortless in the studio version, but it really showed his weakness as a vocalist live.

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About ten years ago I was asked by a 'music industry figure' if they could put forward a song I had written for consideration for the UK's entry.

It obviously never got selected, but if it had, we would have fucking crushed it.

 

 

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This was a tremendously weak year though. I hope we'll soon get another year like 2021. That year was insane. So many good tunes that in a normal year would probably have won.

9 hours ago, Ran said:

I think the live performance from the UK was a part of its downfall. A lot of songs sound great in the recording where you realize the performance was constructed in the studio to an inordinate degree. Cha Cha Cha for example, second half sounds effortless in the studio version, but it really showed his weakness as a vocalist live.

To some degree, I feel like you can say the same about Loreen. I though the live performance of her song was considerably weaker than the version you find on Spotify. She was still a deserved winner though. The rest of the field was really weak and Tattoo in its studio version is glorious.

Edited by Veltigar
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17 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Spain, wtf?! They got even less public votes than Germany or Australia! Talk about the lowest common denominator...

I didn't like Spain, either. I can see the appeal of Germany being different than others, just not to my tastes.

But I really cannot grasp what is appealing about the Swedish song either. The tune and musical style are something really similar to the rest of the pop songs there, it is not unique. I have listened to it again today, and the tune still doesn't stick. The staging was weird, but more in a boring than in a fun way. Maybe even my dislike of her outfit and nails influenced my dislike of the whole thing. I think it is just not my style, so I cannot understand the appeal at all.

I think Portugal definitely deserved better, as well as Slovenia, France and Moldova. Croatia at least for the novelty.

But then I liked Jendrik last year or a few years ago or whenever that was, so maybe I just have a shit taste.

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1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

To some degree, I feel like you can say the same about Loreen.

Apparently she killed the jury performance, from some reports that were made by people who attended it.

But yes, honestly, no one sounded at the level of their studio performance. Some because, well, they aren't great singers (Käärija), others because sound mixing was a problem (everyone, basically)  which is the fault of the BBC, really.

Loreen's national final performance was definitely better (not just vocally, but visually -- the stage in Liverpool couldn't handle the weight of the full LED screen rig they used in Sweden). 

I agree it was an awfully weak year. Knee jerk reaction to a Sweden win is that of course we're going to look into getting tickets for the final, but then I think about the fact... what if it's as weak a year as this one? That'd kind of suck.

Though admittedly, I'm sure we'll get some pretty special performances around the event, given (as Graham Norton and others have repeatedly noted -- and is probably a reason Christer Björkman apparently pled with Loreen to enter) the 50th anniversary of ABBA's victory next year (and the 40th anniversary of Herrys winning as well). 

2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

About ten years ago I was asked by a 'music industry figure' if they could put forward a song I had written for consideration for the UK's entry.

Very nice song, man. Did not know that was among your talents. "About ten years ago"... was that the Engelbert Humperdink year? Or the Bonnie Tyler year?

Edited by Ran
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5 hours ago, Ran said:

Very nice song, man. Did not know that was among your talents. "About ten years ago"... was that the Engelbert Humperdink year? Or the Bonnie Tyler year?

Thanks, that's very kind of you to say. And it was actually twelve years ago, just checked the correspondence.

A lifetime ago, I spent a decade fronting and writing songs for a rock band. Best years of my life. Anyway, long after we'd split up, one of the industry high-ups we'd met along the way contacted me out of the blue, asking if he could submit You Never Know for Eurovision. He said he still played my demo in his car, and had dreamt that it won. Completely blown away, I knocked up a crafty re-master and we sent it off.

And .... crickets.

I hate that fucking song now. But every now and again, I think of shopping it.

Edited by Spockydog
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On 5/14/2023 at 7:47 AM, Ran said:

I think the live performance from the UK was a part of its downfall. A lot of songs sound great in the recording where you realize the performance was constructed in the studio to an inordinate degree. Cha Cha Cha for example, second half sounds effortless in the studio version, but it really showed his weakness as a vocalist live.

This is also true.

I think for the UK to be consistently better in the competition we need to stop getting an automatic buy-in every year and we need to start doing X-Factor style competitions with proper voting systems. UK selectors don't really 'get' Eurovision and I'm sure they look down on it in the same way that most Brits do in general. We can't rely on the 'it's a fix' excuse any more, because it's just kind of obvious that certain kinds of songs and performances are going to do well and we think we are above that. 

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Wait, did I get this right that the juries were judging a different performance than the public?

Ran, as for attending next year - I'm guessing the experience and the crazy fans and the atmosphere are the real attraction. Personally, I'm not one for big crowds, but if I was, the music would not be my main reason to go... Although ofc it helps when there are some nice tunes!

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3 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Wait, did I get this right that the juries were judging a different performance than the public?

Yes. There's a final dress rehearsal before the final, which includes all the performers doing their thing, and the juries judge on this. The reason given for this is that the juries deliberate a long while selecting their top 10, and can't get their results in in the same time frame as the televote.

 

 

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On 5/14/2023 at 7:40 PM, Ran said:

Apparently she killed the jury performance, from some reports that were made by people who attended it.

But yes, honestly, no one sounded at the level of their studio performance. Some because, well, they aren't great singers (Käärija), others because sound mixing was a problem (everyone, basically)  which is the fault of the BBC, really.

Loreen's national final performance was definitely better (not just vocally, but visually -- the stage in Liverpool couldn't handle the weight of the full LED screen rig they used in Sweden). 

I agree it was an awfully weak year. Knee jerk reaction to a Sweden win is that of course we're going to look into getting tickets for the final, but then I think about the fact... what if it's as weak a year as this one? That'd kind of suck.

As to the bolded, I assumed the acoustics of the hall were suboptimal, but you think it was the sound mixing? You'd think the BBC with all its experience would be capable of making sure that everything technical is top notch.

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28 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

but you think it was the sound mixing?

That seems to have been the assessment on the ground from reporters, that mixing was the issue. Here is a thread showing people who recorded rehearsals on phones and the sound in the auditorium seems fantastic, giving a full sound to everyone's performance, but then the broadcast version seems to have a weird mix which flattens the vocals. 

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On 5/14/2023 at 4:54 PM, Spockydog said:

About ten years ago I was asked by a 'music industry figure' if they could put forward a song I had written for consideration for the UK's entry.

It obviously never got selected, but if it had, we would have fucking crushed it.

That is really a very nice song mate. It sounds a bit like Keane, maybe? It never ceases to amaze me how some bands are able to break success and others are not, even though they're not different, quality wise.

Edited by 3CityApache
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3 hours ago, Veltigar said:

As to the bolded, I assumed the acoustics of the hall were suboptimal

It's an arena in large part designed to hold concerts etc so I wouldn't have thought so. I've never noticed any issues when I've been although admittedly I might not be the best judge.

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5 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

That is really a very nice song mate. It sounds a bit like Keane, maybe? It never ceases to amaze me how some bands are able to break success and others are not, even though they're not different, quality wise.

Thanks, man. Yeah, that one is a bit 'Keaney'. Hated performing it live. Singing falsetto in a Camden toilet when you can barely hear yourself is not for the faint-hearted.

But we were good. I mean, really fucking good. And we came *this* close to making it. I should probably write a book about it one day. 

Tldr: In 2001 we signed a development deal with EMI. Shortly after that, I got married and went on honeymoon, watched the twin towers fall from a hotel room in Bali. When I got home I learned we had been offered a bunch of festival slots, including opening one of the small stages at Glastonbury the following year. Oh, and we were going to be in a TV show. Called Risk, it was an Anglo-Canadian production, set in London. It was pitched to us as Fame meets Friends. They licensed one of our songs for the theme tune. Got £30k for that. We filmed a bunch of scenes in a freezing cold school for a week. It was a lot of fun. Then the showrunner and our EMI A&R took us all out to dinner at the Landmark Hotel. During this meal, the A&R told us they were going to turn us into the Monkees or some shit. At this point, the lead guitarist got up and walked out. That was the beginning of the end for us.

 

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9 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

But we were good. I mean, really fucking good. And we came *this* close to making it. I should probably write a book about it one day. 

It does sound like a book material. Did you read David Mitchell's Utopia Avenue? Kinda has similar vibe, horology and time period aside.

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10 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

It does sound like a book material. Did you read David Mitchell's Utopia Avenue? Kinda has similar vibe, horology and time period aside.

Not read that one. Sounds good, will check it out.

And, heh, reading that tldr back, it does sound like enough to build a story around. And that's just the final act. There were plenty of wild experiences leading up to that point. Over the years, we ticked off all the rock band cliches: sex / drugs / catastrophic gigs / sex with each other / fights with each other / fights with unruly punters. For a time, we were managed by Lee Thompson from Madness, and he opened a bunch of doors for us. We also opened for them on their UK arena tour. :pimp:

Ah, happy days.

 

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