NBA - Rochambeau Playoffs

[BigFatCoward]

18 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Its not possible to eliminate or even significantly reduce, but there might be some low hanging fruit that can be picked.

For example, how about making use of the cameras to assist the referees? Think there are a bunch used for stat gathering, can delegate stuff like determining if the shot is behind the three point line or not, goaltending, out of bounds. Not sure how feasible it is, but could provide some consistency and free up the little bit of focus used on these. 

Or if the above is not possible, at least be able to quickly clip and display the last three seconds when the whistle is blown. Finding the camera with the correct angle shouldn't be too hard with practice and wouldn't necessarily delay the game more than players making their case. 

Or maybe just adding another referee so they don't have to cover as much space and as many players.

I recognise that the above won't address the main complaint like missed calls or bad calls, but hopefully making it easier for the referees can improve their performance. They already have a lot on their plate with having to determine things quickly in real time when the action is fast. 

 

Be careful what you wish for - Video Assistant Refereeing in football is fucking terrible, makes absurd decisions, is wildly inconsistent and really slows the game down.  I maintain that is due to implementation and the people running it, rather than necessarily a problem with the system itself though. 

[James Arryn]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:32 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Because you have to take it there to hammer it home. These leagues are not egalitarian. I wish they were, but they never will be, especially with all the corporate Wall St bros taking over. NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, NCAA, etc. they're all corrupt and I wish people would get mad about it. 

I mean, it’s true for all sports but the NBA does the least to hide it.
 

Stern ‘saved’ the league by adopting a specific marketing philosophy of ‘flagship’ teams and players. He was open about it. LA, NY, BOS and Chicago would always be his ideal FF, fouled by geography and Sterling. So much so that he pushed back against criticism of it, when one reporter pointed out that aside from casual fans, his preferential treatment would engender more, say, Laker haters than fans his response was 1) his job was to bring in casual fans and turn them into hardcore and 2) fans hating teams is basically as economically beneficial as fans loving them…whatever gets people watching. Bird and Magic were the original beneficiaries, Jordan and Lebron the ultimates. But bigger picture over time as tv became more and more important than arena sales, it means stacking your chips behind dynasties, because dynasties = name recognition, which in turn boosts ticket/broadcast/merch sales.
 

Also, studies have shown that ref ‘bias’ is a thing. Specifically that home teams repeatedly get the benefit of same even absent a Stern-like dictum. Reason being, refs are human and fans make noise that humans, however objective, respond to. To the point that in arenas with running tracks between the fans and the field…a more common thing in Europe, I think…the home field ref advantage is significantly lessened because the noise on the field is lessened.

Edited May 15 by James Arryn

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

For example, how about making use of the cameras to assist the referees? Think there are a bunch used for stat gathering, can delegate stuff like determining if the shot is behind the three point line or not, goaltending, out of bounds. Not sure how feasible it is, but could provide some consistency and free up the little bit of focus used on these. 

Yeah, these are definitely things that can be resolved.  Their replay/challenge system is minimal but pretty sure all of these are a part of it.  That's..not really what people are complaining about when it comes to NBA refs.  Also, traveling, which they apparently were supposed to call more this past year but I don't see it.

[Proudfeet]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah, these are definitely things that can be resolved.  Their replay/challenge system is minimal but pretty sure all of these are a part of it.  That's..not really what people are complaining about when it comes to NBA refs.  Also, traveling, which they apparently were supposed to call more this past year but I don't see it.

I get that and acknowledged as much, but the idea is to reduce the things they need to consider so that they can do better on the rest. 

[Maithanet]

The problem for NBA refs is not that they are getting out of bounds or behind/over the three point line wrong.  Those things happen on occasion, but that is definitely not the issue.

The problem is calling charges/blocking and touch fouls, which are incredibly subjective, and happen virtually every possession.  Whether a defender is "established" or not is inherently subjective.  With cameras you could maybe get better at calling charges, but being perfectly consistent is impossible.  Touch fouls are even worse, because basketball allows a certain amount of contact, but not too much, which is always subjective.  Some guys are really good at playing through contact, whereas other guys go flying, and the guys who "just play through" get dramatically less calls.  Hence, if you're a strong guy who nonetheless wants to get his share of calls, you need to flail/flop in order to help the refs see that a foul occurred. 

[Proudfeet]

9 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The problem for NBA refs is not that they are getting out of bounds or behind/over the three point line wrong.  Those things happen on occasion, but that is definitely not the issue.

I'm not sure how you get that from my post. It's not about them getting those wrong, it's about reducing the things they need to keep aware of. Those are just the things that seem easily achievable at the moment. These are small issues, but maybe if it works out they can expand it to illegal screens and other more straight forward actions.

[DanteGabriel]

5 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Don't get to watch the East games much, but my impression is that Tatum is already better, at least skills wise. 

That may be so, as I haven't watched that much of the Heat in these playoffs, but Butler's killer instinct seems Jordan-esque.

Not only did the Sixers pay handsomely to get Fultz over Tatum, but they also let Butler walk to keep Simmons. Obviously a massive dose of hindsight, but wow, just wow.

[Tywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The problem is calling charges/blocking and touch fouls, which are incredibly subjective, and happen virtually every possession.  Whether a defender is "established" or not is inherently subjective.  

LeBron drew one of the most comical charges I've ever seen in the Warriors series and they were forced to challenge a call a HS ref should be able to make. That cannot happen.

Edited May 15 by Tywin et al.

[DMC]

10 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The problem is calling charges/blocking and touch fouls, which are incredibly subjective, and happen virtually every possession.  Whether a defender is "established" or not is inherently subjective.  With cameras you could maybe get better at calling charges, but being perfectly consistent is impossible.  Touch fouls are even worse, because basketball allows a certain amount of contact, but not too much, which is always subjective.

Yep, this is the issue.  And like I said, I don't see how you resolve it.  It's the nature of the game - and depending on where you stand/sit, you're either gonna think it's a worthwhile call or blatant bias.  Obviously there's some latitude there, but the refs are inherently put in a "damned if you do damned if you don't" position.

6 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Not only did the Sixers pay handsomely to get Fultz over Tatum

Orlando got Fultz for Simmons.  Jonathan Simmons.  Who's that?  Your guess is as good as mine.  But it worked out for the Celtics and the Magic.  And ultimately the Sixers for that matter - the pick they got turned out to be Maxey.  Regardless, big fan of Fultz, he's a funny guy and a clear competitor.  As long as he can stay healthy I'm very encouraged by his progress and look forward to him continuing to improve next year.  Guess it just took him a few years.

[Tywin et al.]

So Wemby night is finally here.

[Tywin et al.]

Wemby is a Spur.

[Kalbear]

That just seems unfair

[KingintheNorth4]

Pistons had the worst record in the league and they pick 5th. Lmao. 

[Tywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

Pistons had the worst record in the league and they pick 5th. Lmao. 

Try not to suck on purpose, right? 

So much for LA's defense in the first half. The Nuggets can get what they want and you cannot stop the Joker pick and pop outside or when they run a variation of it with him at the top of the key. He's just too big and strong, can always make the right pass or just attack the rim. This seems like him at his very best.

[Rhom]

Nugs are just fun to watch.

[Arakasi]

Wtf is going on with this game. Crazy runs back and forth.

[Tywin et al.]

34/21/14. Short list for best player in the league given the moment. I didn't watch the second half, but Joker is showing he's special in big moments. I'll need to watch the last few minutes in the morning. 

[Proudfeet]

Do the Spurs have anyone that they can commit long term to? Assuming Wembanyama is as advertised, who is expected to play with him? Their upcoming draft picks from giving up White and Murray? Is Keldon Johnson any good?

[Maithanet]

San Antonio Spurs:

I don't always win the lottery.  But when I do, I draft a Hall of Fame big man. 

[Tywin et al.]

Massholes, where are you?