Four New Cast Members Announced

[Annara Snow]

@Lord Varys 

Quote

LOL no.

ROTFLMAO yes.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

They are filming King's Landing and Harrenhal scenes right now, so announcing Gwayne Hightower, Alys Rivers and Simon Strong makes sense.

The description for Alyn says he is part of the Velaryon fleet and was in the Stepstones. I would not be surprised if Addam did not join the Velaryon fleet and is still in Marilda's small merchant fleet at this time. If they are filming Velaryon fleet scenes right now or soon (I believe Steve Toussaint has started filming), they need Alyn but not Addam. No need to reveal who is playing Addam just yet.

[Lord Varys]

17 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

@Lord Varys 

ROTFLMAO yes.

LOL, no. Just ask Septon Eustace.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

They are filming King's Landing and Harrenhal scenes right now, so announcing Gwayne Hightower, Alys Rivers and Simon Strong makes sense.

Because there are spoiler reports about the shoots. They could just as well announce new actors whenever they cast them, or go by importance of characters, etc.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The description for Alyn says he is part of the Velaryon fleet and was in the Stepstones. I would not be surprised if Addam did not join the Velaryon fleet and is still in Marilda's small merchant fleet at this time. If they are filming Velaryon fleet scenes right now or soon (I believe Steve Toussaint has started filming), they need Alyn but not Addam. No need to reveal who is playing Addam just yet.

Not sure if that's much of an argument. Addam is older than Alyn, so he should also be part of the Velaryon fleet. Assuming Marilda and her merchant fleet will be a thing in the show is also stretching things without confirmation that they will be included. It strikes me as more likely that Alyn being a Velaryon fleet guy is simply background information on the character.

[The Dragon Demands]

9 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

They are filming King's Landing and Harrenhal scenes right now, so announcing Gwayne Hightower, Alys Rivers and Simon Strong makes sense.

The description for Alyn says he is part of the Velaryon fleet and was in the Stepstones. I would not be surprised if Addam did not join the Velaryon fleet and is still in Marilda's small merchant fleet at this time. If they are filming Velaryon fleet scenes right now or soon (I believe Steve Toussaint has started filming), they need Alyn but not Addam. No need to reveal who is playing Addam just yet.

What I can't figure out is why did they give the older actor the younger one's name?

I wish they'd announced Alys Rivers separately a few days ago so we could just enjoy that controversy-free. We'll have Alys for...a while.

Who knows how many chapters it will take in Fire & Blood Volume 2 to cover the remaining 20 years of Aegon III's reign. 

We assume "well I guess not much happened" but that's what we said about Jaehaerys before Fire & Blood gave us all those new chapters.

[The Bard of Banefort]

9 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

What I can't figure out is why did they give the older actor the younger one's name?

I wish they'd announced Alys Rivers separately a few days ago so we could just enjoy that controversy-free. We'll have Alys for...a while.

Who knows how many chapters it will take in Fire & Blood Volume 2 to cover the remaining 20 years of Aegon III's reign. 

We assume "well I guess not much happened" but that's what we said about Jaehaerys before Fire & Blood gave us all those new chapters.

Maybe he’s filming a scene outdoors soon and they wanted to announce it before a spy photo leaked? None of the dragon seeds have been announced yet.

[BlackLightning]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:40 PM, Westeros said:

Gayle Rankin as Alys Rivers, described as “a healer and resident of Harrenhal”. For those not concerned about spoilers, the Wiki of Ice and Fire has you covered on all we know of the character from George R.R. Martin’s writing.

I was wondering when Alys would show up.

We all better get used to her really fast.

Spoiler

Unlike Alicent and Corlys, Alys will make it to the series finale. The inclusion of Alys makes me really hope that they adapt the Regency period.

 

On 4/24/2023 at 12:40 PM, Westeros said:

• Freddie Fox will play Ser Gwayne Hightower, “the son of Otto Hightower, brother to Queen Alicent, and uncle” to the queen’s children. The character appeared in the first episode of House of the Dragon, in the tournament, but wore a helm and was played by a stuntman. Again, this is a canonical character.

Cool

If we're getting Gwayne, then we're 100% getting Daeron. They probably will be introduced in the same scene.

Good casting too as he looks he really could be the son of Rhys Ifans.

On 4/24/2023 at 4:37 PM, Colonel Green said:

It's also at least theoretically possible that they've combined Addam and Alyn into one character.

Ugh don't say that

On 4/26/2023 at 4:40 AM, Annara Snow said:

There was never any doubt in the books to begin with. Everyone knew Harwin was their father.

Disagree

In the books, Rhaenys had black hair and Aemma's father had brown hair. And they all were white. So, it was a lot more ambiguous in the books.

The show made it.

On 4/24/2023 at 12:40 PM, Westeros said:

• Last but not last, Abubakar Salim will play Alyn of Hull, “a sailor in the Velaryon fleet.” There’s a lot more about him on the Wiki for those not afraid of spoilers.

Well good for him.

Can't wait for Addam to show up

 

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

17 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

If we're getting Gwayne, then we're 100% getting Daeron.

Daeron was already confirmed right after the season 1 finale, he was even added to the family tree on the HBO character guide. I wonder how the general audience is gonna react to seeing a new son for Viserys and Alicent showing up out of nowhere since he was never mentionned in season 1.

I'm hoping that Gwayne's introduction scene is him arriving to King's Landing and meeting with Otto and Alicent (maybe Lord Hobert died recently and Otto sent a raven to Oldtown asking his son to come to the capital to reinforce the Hightower presence at court). They discuss the situation in King's Landing (Otto appoints Gwayne to the City Watch under Luthor Largent) and in Oldtown and mention Daeron. The next scene mirrors Rhaenyra's introduction scene from season 1 as we see Daeron flying on Tessarion over Oldtown and landing at the Hightower where Lord Ormund greets him and announces him the death of his father.

In just two scenes, all the Hightowers are set for the rest of the season.

[The Bard of Banefort]

37 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Daeron was already confirmed right after the season 1 finale, he was even added to the family tree on the HBO character guide. I wonder how the general audience is gonna react to seeing a new son for Viserys and Alicent showing up out of nowhere since he was never mentionned in season 1.

I'm hoping that Gwayne's introduction scene is him arriving to King's Landing and meeting with Otto and Alicent (maybe Lord Hobert died recently and Otto sent a raven to Oldtown asking his son to come to the capital to reinforce the Hightower presence at court). They discuss the situation in King's Landing (Otto appoints Gwayne to the City Watch under Luthor Largent) and in Oldtown and mention Daeron. The next scene mirrors Rhaenyra's introduction scene from season 1 as we see Daeron flying on Tessarion over Oldtown and landing at the Hightower where Lord Ormund greets him and announces him the death of his father.

In just two scenes, all the Hightowers are set for the rest of the season.

The character guide is pretty much confirmation that they’ve cut Maelor.  There’s no reason to add Daeron and not Maelor if they’re both set to appear in S2. Maelor’s death is somewhat similar to Joffrey’s, so I can understand why they decided to cut him. It just means that they’ll have to change B&C somewhat. 

The problem is, if they really want this show to center around the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent, then I don’t see how they can have B&C as it was written in the books. There’s no way that a woman who was bound and gagged while she watched her daughter tormented and grandson decapitated would ever see Rhaenyra as anything other than her absolute enemy. What’s Rhaenyra going to say, “It wasn’t me, it was all Daemon!”? 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The character guide is pretty much confirmation that they’ve cut Maelor.  There’s no reason to add Daeron and not Maelor if they’re both set to appear in S2. Maelor’s death is somewhat similar to Joffrey’s, so I can understand why they decided to cut him. It just means that they’ll have to change B&C somewhat. 

They can only cut Maelor if they want to mess around with their very own opening credits. He is there in the last couple of episodes of season 1 and while they could remove him again for season 2 ... it would be very bad form if they did.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The problem is, if they really want this show to center around the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent, then I don’t see how they can have B&C as it was written in the books. There’s no way that a woman who was bound and gagged while she watched her daughter tormented and grandson decapitated would ever see Rhaenyra as anything other than her absolute enemy. What’s Rhaenyra going to say, “It wasn’t me, it was all Daemon!”? 

They won't do it like it was written in the book. There are lots of ways to soften the blow there as I keep pointing out. Rhaenyra, I think, can only authorize the assassination of Aemond. She and Daemon both have good reason to assume Aemond wanted to kill Lucerys, so taking him out would be fair game. Targeting Aegon and Helaena's kids would make less sense ... even if Rhaenyra were of the opinion that Aegon or Alicent commanded Aemond to take out Luke. Which she likely is not going to assume.

As I keep repeating - the show gave Mysaria her very own reason to punish Alicent Hightower, and we can expect that she will do just that.

But, of course, for the time being both women have to start thinking the worst of each other as the war starts to rage ... the time for them to actually fact-check things would be after Rhaenyra takes the Iron Throne and has talks with Alicent.

And to be sure, they can add more Green ugliness by playing up the Cargyll revenge attempt. Perhaps Ser Arryk is only killed in the show after he injured Rhaenyra, one of her sons, Baela or Rhaena and/or he ends up killing one of Rhaenyra's ladies who shields her with her own body, or something along those lines.

[kingDaemonI]

While he does not look much like Olivia Cooke, I can sort of see Freddie's resemblance to Rhys Ifans.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

They can only cut Maelor if they want to mess around with their very own opening credits. He is there in the last couple of episodes of season 1 and while they could remove him again for season 2 ... it would be very bad form if they did.

They won't do it like it was written in the book. There are lots of ways to soften the blow there as I keep pointing out. Rhaenyra, I think, can only authorize the assassination of Aemond. She and Daemon both have good reason to assume Aemond wanted to kill Lucerys, so taking him out would be fair game. Targeting Aegon and Helaena's kids would make less sense ... even if Rhaenyra were of the opinion that Aegon or Alicent commanded Aemond to take out Luke. Which she likely is not going to assume.

As I keep repeating - the show gave Mysaria her very own reason to punish Alicent Hightower, and we can expect that she will do just that.

But, of course, for the time being both women have to start thinking the worst of each other as the war starts to rage ... the time for them to actually fact-check things would be after Rhaenyra takes the Iron Throne and has talks with Alicent.

And to be sure, they can add more Green ugliness by playing up the Cargyll revenge attempt. Perhaps Ser Arryk is only killed in the show after he injured Rhaenyra, one of her sons, Baela or Rhaena and/or he ends up killing one of Rhaenyra's ladies who shields her with her own body, or something along those lines.

I really don’t think changing the credits is a big deal. They’re confusing enough as it is. Tommen aged ten years between seasons three and four and no one cared.

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The character guide is pretty much confirmation that they’ve cut Maelor.  There’s no reason to add Daeron and not Maelor if they’re both set to appear in S2. Maelor’s death is somewhat similar to Joffrey’s, so I can understand why they decided to cut him. It just means that they’ll have to change B&C somewhat. 

The problem is, if they really want this show to center around the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent, then I don’t see how they can have B&C as it was written in the books. There’s no way that a woman who was bound and gagged while she watched her daughter tormented and grandson decapitated would ever see Rhaenyra as anything other than her absolute enemy. What’s Rhaenyra going to say, “It wasn’t me, it was all Daemon!”? 

I could've sworn that Maelor was already in the show.

Besides, Maelor's death  not at all like Joffrey's

Joffrey dies the same way Christopher Reeves was paralyzed. Maelor, on the other hand, gets torn apart by peasants.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

They won't do it like it was written in the book.

And the way it was written in the book was very ambiguous.

If memory serves me correctly, no one knows who was the original target of Blood & Cheese nor does anyone know who exactly called for the hit. And no one knows how the Blacks responded. No one even knows what happened to Blood...or is it Cheese who vanishes.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

And to be sure, they can add more Green ugliness by playing up the Cargyll revenge attempt. Perhaps Ser Arryk is only killed in the show after he injured Rhaenyra, one of her sons, Baela or Rhaena and/or he ends up killing one of Rhaenyra's ladies who shields her with her own body, or something along those lines.

How does playing up the Cargyll revenge attempt add more Green ugliness?

I feel like it's too late to play up Green ugliness. Jon Roxton and crew aside, most of the Green bad actors happens before the war or at the beginning of the war.

 

[Lord Varys]

54 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I really don’t think changing the credits is a big deal. They’re confusing enough as it is. Tommen aged ten years between seasons three and four and no one cared.

A point you could make if there was any indication that they were cutting Maelor - which there simply isn't. That he is missing on some promotional family tree means literally nothing in light of the fact that he is in the opening credits.

They wouldn't have included him in the opening credits for the show if they had no intention to include him. Hell, the opening credits were likely made around the time it was decided who would be in season 2 and who wouldn't. And cutting Maelor is effectively pointless - it would take a very gory, very interesting scene out of the show while not streamlining anything. Maelor is no character, just a prop. They could have his death as a plot point without showing him much.

49 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

And the way it was written in the book was very ambiguous.

If memory serves me correctly, no one knows who was the original target of Blood & Cheese nor does anyone know who exactly called for the hit. And no one knows how the Blacks responded. No one even knows what happened to Blood...or is it Cheese who vanishes.

Cheese vanishes, Blood is captured and tortured to death. And, yes, in the book it is also totally unclear if Rhaenyra authorized the entire thing (unlikely), who the original target was Daemon wanted to see dead, what Mysaria told the two guys, and if Blood and Cheese took the time to reach out to Mysaria (and she to Daemon/Rhaenyra) once Blood and Cheese had learned that they could easily get to Helaena and the children.

The fact that they spared Alicent, Helaena, Jaehaera, and Maelor strongly indicates that Daemon wasn't updated about who they had access to. And Gyldayn clearly seems to believe the original target was somebody else (Aegon II, perhaps), with the two guys only settling on Helaena and the children because they could gain easy access to them.

But for the show we do have the original motivational layer of Alicent burning down Mysaria's manse ... which might have caused the death of many of Mysaria's friends and followers. And quite a few of them were children as we see earlier in the show (the girl informing on Daemon and Rhaenyra in episode 4, for instance). If many such children burned to death in the manse then chances are very good that Mysaria will command Blood and Cheese to deliberately target Helaena and her children - and also to include Alicent in the entire thing, have her witness things tied up and gagged so she suffer as Mysaria might have suffered while helplessly watching her manse burn.

Rhaenyra would want vengeance for Luke, so if she demands somebody's head and authorizes an assassination it should be Aemond. Daemon should be on the same page there, in principle, since Aemond also rides the largest dragon alive ... but he certainly would not care much if Mysaria were to insist on a different target. Nor would have much issue if Mysaria changed the target all by herself.

49 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

How does playing up the Cargyll revenge attempt add more Green ugliness?

I feel like it's too late to play up Green ugliness. Jon Roxton and crew aside, most of the Green bad actors happens before the war or at the beginning of the war.

I meant that it could help Rhaenyra and Alicent to see more eye to eye once they see each other again if they are both equally involved in ugly assassination attempts. Certainly, Blood and Cheese is ghastly, but Luke's death interpreted as a blatant murder - as Aemond is likely to present it to the world - plus the Cargyll attempt actually causing some damage on Dragonstone could make things pretty even.

At least in the eyes of the two women once they realize that they did not, in fact, turn into each other's mortal enemies and might still salvage some of their earlier relationship. Which I really think is what the show is going to do. I mean, Rhaenyra likely will allow Alicent and Helaena to live like she does in the book - something that would very hard to sell if they turn into mortal enemies in season 2.

It also strikes one as obvious that the issue of Alicent is going to be a matter of contention in the Black camp. Daemon already declared that Alicent murdered Viserys. Rhaenyra showing mercy to her isn't something that is going to sit well with Daemon.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Maelor is no character, just a prop.

Yes, exactly.

Why on earth do you guys want to see a toddler ripped apart limb by limb? Isn’t that what happened in Mother?

[Annara Snow]

16 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I was wondering when Alys would show up.

We all better get used to her really fast.

  Hide contents

Unlike Alicent and Corlys, Alys will make it to the series finale. The inclusion of Alys makes me really hope that they adapt the Regency period.

 

Cool

If we're getting Gwayne, then we're 100% getting Daeron. They probably will be introduced in the same scene.

Good casting too as he looks he really could be the son of Rhys Ifans.

Ugh don't say that

Disagree

In the books, Rhaenys had black hair and Aemma's father had brown hair. And they all were white. So, it was a lot more ambiguous in the books.

The show made it.

Well good for him.

Can't wait for Addam to show up

 

The importance placed on both Alys and Alyn suggests they will adapt some of the Regency at least, which I always thought they would and should. The question is just how much. I was thinking at least a long or double episode finale.

The paternity of Rhaenyra's sons was equally obvious in the book and in the show. Rhaenys's black hair was a poor attempt to explain their looks, since they not only had brown hair but also brown eyes and features such as pug nose. Rhaenys has none of that.

In the show, the Targaryens have blue eyes rather than purple, and Harwin also had grey blue eyes, so that's a moot point. They also don't really have features that particularly look like Harwin - in fact, Jace has Valyrian facial features and looks a lot like Rhaenyra (Instagram edits that give him silver hair make that really obvious). Some argue that Luke looks like Aemma. So it's all about the hair color, and the fact the actors are fully white.

But the latter probably doesn't mean as much to people in universe as to the viewers - since they're at least 3/4 white and Laenor is pretty light skinned. Lots of biracial people who are 1/4 black look likd Wentworth Miller rather than Bethany Antonia and Phoebe Campbell. And since people in-universe have no concept of "white" and "black" as races (to them, Corlys and Rhaenys are the same, Valyrian race), they would see it as metely a difference in skin tone but not a crucial racial attribute (unlike silver hair and, iin the books, purple eyes) - similarly as people in our world have no trouble seeing some people with dark curly hair and brown eyes and possibly olive skin as the same race as strawberry blonde people with blue eyes and extremely light skin, due to certain cultural and historical factors, but will consider other dark haired, brown eyed people a different race due to (sometimes only slightly) darker skin tone (or not even that), certain facial features (or not even that) and cultural, historical and religious factors.

So for the viewers, the fact that the actors are white seals the deal (because it would be unacceptable today to cast white actors as biracial characters who are part black). In-universe, however, it's equally obvious in books and show - in both cases, they have a strong resemblance to Harwin, no resemblance to Laenor, and features that are nothing like those of their mother, official father, maternal grandparents or official paternal grandparents.

Personally I was never in any doubt that Harwin was their father when reading the source material 

(But they messed up by not letting Jace retain the actor's natural curly hair, which would make him look more like Harwin. That straight hair wig and the messy timeline is why the stupid "Criston is Jace's father" theory came to be.).

Edited April 28 by Annara Snow

[BlackLightning]

12 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yes, exactly.

Why on earth do you guys want to see a toddler ripped apart limb by limb? Isn’t that what happened in Mother?

That is exactly what happened in Mother (which was a great movie; I loved it...it was really deep)

I don't really want to see a toddler ripped apart limb for limb. But I do think Maelor's death (and yes, his manner of death) is very important to the story. For one, Maelor's death makes the Greens look like morons because they are now finding themselves in the position King Viserys was when he made Rhaenyra.

5 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Rhaenys's black hair was a poor attempt to explain their looks, since they not only had brown hair but also brown eyes and features such as pug nose. Rhaenys has none of that.

The point I was trying to make (and the historical accounts in the book would agree with me) is that these boys are very mixed. Not that mixed in the grand scheme of things but much more mixed than the average Targaryen royal.

But maybe it's just me but I did not find the paternity of Rhaenys' children obvious. There are lots of children who look like neither one of their parents; maybe not within the context of this universe (for plot reasons) but in real life.

5 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

The importance placed on both Alys and Alyn suggests they will adapt some of the Regency at least, which I always thought they would and should. The question is just how much. I was thinking at least a long or double episode finale.

I agree. I think the last 2-4 episodes of the show will depict both the Hour of the Wolf and the Regency period as a whole. Yes, that means I full expect to see Unwin Peake and Larra Rogare.

Personally, I think they are making a mistake making season 2 only 8 episodes.

16 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

with the two guys only settling on Helaena and the children because they could gain easy access to them.

I always found it both disturbingly incompetent and deeply pathetic that the King's heirs would have no security detail.

Another reason why I disliked the Greens.

5 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

But the latter probably doesn't mean as much to people in universe as to the viewers - since they're at least 3/4 white and Laenor is pretty light skinned. Lots of biracial people who are 1/4 black look likd Wentworth Miller rather than Bethany Antonia and Phoebe Campbell. And since people in-universe have no concept of "white" and "black" as races (to them, Corlys and Rhaenys are the same, Valyrian race), they would see it as merely a difference in skin tone but not a crucial racial attribute (unlike silver hair and, iin the books, purple eyes) - similarly as people in our world have no trouble seeing some people with dark curly hair and brown eyes and possibly olive skin as the same race as strawberry blonde people with blue eyes and extremely light skin, due to certain cultural and historical factors, but will consider other dark haired, brown eyed people a different race due to (sometimes only slightly) darker skin tone (or not even that), certain facial features (or not even that) and cultural, historical and religious factors.

Agreed

For the record, when I read the books, I didn't think Harwin Strong was the only person who could've been the father of the Velaryon boys. I too suspected that it was Criston Cole for a while.

 

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yes, exactly.

Why on earth do you guys want to see a toddler ripped apart limb by limb? Isn’t that what happened in Mother?

As I said, I do like some blood and gore. And I see no reason to sanitize ugly things if they are in the source material.

Why I want to see the entire Bitterbridge episode in great detail is mostly because it is, perhaps, the most detailed and most colorful episode in the entire Dance narrative. And it involves a lot of common people.

George even has Gyldayn portray Maelor's death as the turning point in Rhaenyra's reign. It is the catalyst that begins her downfall, although FaB doesn't really flesh out why that was the case. The show could. And if they do it then it would be another way to show that an event completely out of Rhaenyra's control tarnishes her public image or helps her enemies to blacken her reputation. George does this kind of thing better with the theft of the treasury and Rhaenyra's lack of cash causing her people to implement measures that make her unpopular.

But, in the end, the main reason why I don't want Maelor to be cut is that they I don't want the show to mess with the family tree. And there is no real reason to do so since they could actually include Maelor's death by not depicting it. People could just talk about it and we could see the toddler earlier a couple of times so the audience knows he is a thing. But I don't want them to do this.

6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

The importance placed on both Alys and Alyn suggests they will adapt some of the Regency at least, which I always thought they would and should. The question is just how much. I was thinking at least a long or double episode finale.

That doesn't suggest anything of that sort. Alys is important during the Dance ... and has an open end story in the Regency so they better stay the hell away from that plot unless they finish it. And Alyn only has a crucial role in the later parts of the Regency, stuff they most definitely won't cover in a show lasting for about 4 seasons at the most.

6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

The paternity of Rhaenyra's sons was equally obvious in the book and in the show. Rhaenys's black hair was a poor attempt to explain their looks, since they not only had brown hair but also brown eyes and features such as pug nose. Rhaenys has none of that.

We have no idea about the noses of Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, Viserys, Aemma, or any other character of the royal family aside from Laenor Velaryon's aquiline nose.

And for the hundredth time - there is no confirmation that Harwin had brown hair, brown eyes, or a pug nose.

6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Personally I was never in any doubt that Harwin was their father when reading the source material.

Then you have no properly read the source material because the source material doesn't describe Harwin Strong's looks nor does it gives any indication that any other Strong had dark or brown hair. The only Strong we have a description for, Lucamore Strong, was a blond giant.

53 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

That is exactly what happened in Mother (which was a great movie; I loved it...it was really deep)

I don't really want to see a toddler ripped apart limb for limb. But I do think Maelor's death (and yes, his manner of death) is very important to the story. For one, Maelor's death makes the Greens look like morons because they are now finding themselves in the position King Viserys was when he made Rhaenyra.

It would most likely not be 'limb by limb', anyway, but merely ripped apart in some kind of (accidental) struggle.

53 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

The point I was trying to make (and the historical accounts in the book would agree with me) is that these boys are very mixed. Not that mixed in the grand scheme of things but much more mixed than the average Targaryen royal.

But maybe it's just me but I did not find the paternity of Rhaenys' children obvious. There are lots of children who look like neither one of their parents; maybe not within the context of this universe (for plot reasons) but in real life.

The point of the 'Strong rumor' in the narrative is clearly to show that Alicent is an asshole obsessed with throwing dirt at Rhaenyra's sons so she can advance her own brood at their expense. Laena and Laenor Velaryon look nothing like their mother Rhaenys, but that's not an issue, apparently. Alyssa Targaryen looked like nobody in the entire family that we know of yet nobody ever doubted she was the daughter of Jaehaerys and Alysanne.

It is certainly possible that Laenor is not the father of the boys ... but it is most definitely not confirmed in the book. In fact, it is not even confirmed that Rhaenyra and Harwin had an affair. In that sense it is a joke to pretend that the book 'confirmed' anything in this regard.

53 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I always found it both disturbingly incompetent and deeply pathetic that the King's heirs would have no security detail.

Another reason why I disliked the Greens.

Well, the KG was down to four knights at the time, and they were apparently all assigned to Aegon II himself. But, yes, it is kind of odd that the queen and the king's heirs don't have any bodyguards of their own. Or at least not all that many.

53 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

For the record, when I read the books, I didn't think Harwin Strong was the only person who could've been the father of the Velaryon boys. I too suspected that it was Criston Cole for a while.

Criston Cole could easily enough by Jace's father if the boy was fathered before Rhaenyra's wedding. If they had a sexual relationship - and we don't know that they did not - that would fit in the timeline.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I don’t think the show is going to depict Rhaenyra as a tyrant in any way, to be honest. I think they’re going to portray her fall from grace entirely as the product of the patriarchy working against her. That’s basically what the writers have been saying out loud since before the first episode premiered.

Edited April 28 by The Bard of Banefort

[Annara Snow]

@Lord Varys re: the Strong boys - LMAO

have read the source material with something called reading comprehension. You might try it sometime instead of insisting every single obvious thing is spelled out. You interpreting the text to mean that people thought Harwin was their father because they had brown hair, brown eyes and pug nose while Harwin didn't look like that, is hilariously absurd.

Although, while here you want even the obvious spelled out, on the other hand you seem to have no problem with coming up with elaborate headcanons.

Re: Regency, Alyn has to marry Baela and to become Lord of the Tides after Corlys's death, otherwise why is he even on the show? 

Alys is important during the Dance, but her story is extremely incomplete if she just disappears from the show after Aemond's death, or if we see her giving birth, that's a nice payoff but not as good as her becoming the Witch Queen of Harrenhal and defying the crow with a bunch of Broken Men loyal to her  They have to film the scene where Ser Regis dies (however they portray his death) after saying that "baseborn whelp of a kinslayer and a milk cow" line. 

And those things happen in the early years of the Regency, together with Alicent's deat, which has to be in the finale. Olivia is going to kill that. They could even bring back Emma to have Alicent have an imaginary conversation with Rhaenyra. 

I don't think they need to go deep into the Regency, but I strongly disagree with people who think the show should finish withAegon III's ascension and Aegon and Jaehaera's wedding. It would be very incomplete. We need to see all these things, and the other widows ruling, and Nettles as the Fire Witch in the Vale, and the Widow Fairs, etc. The survibors' fattes and people recovering after the war.

From the later years I think we just need to see Aegon and Vuserys reuniting, and at least a hint of dragons dying out, even if they need to do a couple of flashforwards 

But if they were to tell the rest of Alys' story and how it ends, I'm all for getting it first in the show rather than Wikipedia-style in 2 of F&B. Although at least theoretically it cyn be out in 3-4 yeads when season 4  is remeased 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by Annara Snow

[Lord Varys]

3 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

@Lord Varys ILMAO

have read the source material with something called reading comprehension. You might try it sometime instead of insisting every single obvious thing is spelled out. You interpreting the text to mean that people thought Harwin was their father because they had brown hair, brown eyes and pug nose while Harwin didn't look like that, is hilariously absurd.

Although, while here you want even the obvious spelled out, on the other hand you seem to have no problem with coming up with elaborate headcanons.

LOL, no source ever says the boys look like Harwin Strong - they say they have 'common', i.e. non-Valyrian looks - and the man closest to Rhaenyra was Harwin Strong who apparently also didn't look Valyrian. But that doesn't mean that he looked like the boys. Alicent's entire shtick is that the boys don't look Valyrian - it is not that they look like Strongs. Harwin is just the convenient scapegoat, the man Alicent decided must be the true father of the boys.

Where exactly those looks come from is unclear - but since neither Laenor nor Rhaenyra have exactly only Valyrian ancestors their looks could come from anywhere, really. They could look like Aemma Arryn (in the book), Rodrik Arryn, Corlys' unknown mother or grandmother, other women marrying into houses Velaryon, Baratheon, Arryn, Durandon, etc.