What is Arya Stark's Great Role?

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

First of all, Tyrion is not altruistic. With him, strings are always attached.

But back to Arya...yes, I can see Arya creating an institution or order for women and girls. Like a BwB type of police force. Her Braavosi connects will likely support such an arrangement. But I think that Arya can do that out of her own castle. Kinda like Lady Smallwood was an ally and sponsor of the BwB. Her lady wife status can be a cover...

I feel like Sansa will end up being the single, childfree one...the one more focused on politics.

Like how she ended in the show?

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

I imagine she’ll bring justice for the murdered and betrayed Starks. She’ll off a few Freys. Maybe even Cersei in some convoluted fashion with Jaime or Tyrion. And I think it’s possible she’ll run into Lady Stoneheart and put her soul to rest.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

First of all, Tyrion is not altruistic. With him, strings are always attached.

But back to Arya...yes, I can see Arya creating an institution or order for women and girls. Like a BwB type of police force. Her Braavosi connects will likely support such an arrangement. But I think that Arya can do that out of her own castle. Kinda like Lady Smallwood was an ally and sponsor of the BwB. Her lady wife status can be a cover...

I feel like Sansa will end up being the single, childfree one...the one more focused on politics.

I could see Sansa ruling as Lady of the Vale. As Harding’s child’s regent or maybe she’ll hold enough sway to stay in charge after he dies.

[The Sleeper]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:06 AM, BlackLightning said:

I'm sorry; I should've elaborated

Well, they are a bit similar in terms of personality. The main reason Arya is a tomboy is because she negatively compares herself to Sansa and the other girls (but mainly Sansa); she considers Sansa (and by default, her mother) "good" at "being a lady" and knows that she is bad at the ladylike things that Sansa does. So Arya's insecurity and pride leads her to chase more boyish pursuits. Arya would rather chase the unobtainable (she also views boyish pursuits as easier and more exciting) instead of sitting around and looking stupid.

Much like Éowyn. Both Éowyn and Arya are infamous for their heroically disobedient behavior.

I think Arya will play a big role in both the war with the Others and the Dance of the Dragons. But I think that Arya's experiences in the last book will be both so uniquely traumatic and catharic/transformative/healing that she "retires"from warfare at the end of the tale. A lot like how Éowyn's triumph over the Witch King is a Pyrrhic victory (i.e. she almost dies)

Arya will end up "accidentally" becoming a lady (and probably redefining what it means to be a lady) with a respectably powerful lord husband, a household full of lordling children and her own castle to manage. Just like Éowyn set down the sword and shield, gave up on pursuing Aragorn (Aragorn also doubling as symbol of the life of a warrior-queen) and ended up becoming a dutiful lady wife to Faramir. Plus, it makes more sense for the Faceless Men (and by default, the Iron Bank) to want to establish some sort of offshore headquarters in adult Arya's castle with adult Arya's coin. The main thrust of Arya's training is not to become an assassin but some kind of broker and middlewoman.

Arya has spent the ENTIRE story looking for unconditional acceptance and appreciation in a pack and a den of her own. Why roam the world when the only thing she ever wanted is right there in Westeros...Nymeria, her siblings, etc.

I don't know who the endgame husband for Arya will be but it will certainly not be a Bolton or a Frey. Maybe Ned Dayne or a legitimized Gendry or some other guy.

In my opinion, it is Sansa who probably ends the series as a single, childfree woman. 

 

If there is Eowyn-like character in ASoIaF, it is Brienne, not Arya. 

In Arya's case, she is more inclined to physical activities by nature but also because she wants to hang out with her brothers and father. That is also the source of her frustration with "ladylike" pursuits. Her ineptitude along with her resentment from being in Sansa's shadow lead her to being excluded from her immediate group of peers. Her interests in activities or lack thereof are not exclusive, but rather both stem from her desire to be included and her fiercely competitive nature. 

As for the warrior aspect of her arc, this is more of a tangent. For instance she has actually fought in very few cases and never as water dancer. Her training has served her as mental conditioning for keeping her composure and as a routine to center her when facing difficult situations. With the exception of circumstances of someone she considers her pack being in danger, she actively avoids fighting. She does not pursue a warrior ideal, nor does she seek glory in battle out of despair for her circumstances. On the contrary, she survived by any means necessary.

She also has long been disabused of the notion of knights and warriors as sources of power, justice and honor. She is also keenly aware of their practical limitations. Furthermore, she had never idealised their behavior, but rather accepted as a matter of fact what she had been taught.

All of these things happening, have pushed her into the opposite direction. Seeking another solitary type of violence that works for her. 

There are many paths that could lead to what you're describing, but not through what you're suggesting. There really isn't much else she can be disillusioned from, but the core aspects of her character. In that case, she wouldn't become a lady wife, but a septa, a woodswitch or a sellsword.

I do agree that the FM are very likely to thrust her back into the stage as their pawn (she would not be happy about that). It doesn't seem that fugitive or assassin are the only possible end states for a trainee and if the FM are involved in politics, which they seem to be, her name and status would be more valuable to them in the current circumstances than the best assassin who ever lived.

[The Sleeper]

21 hours ago, Evolett said:

Actually, I do believe Arya will play a significant role in the future. All that training you summarized so well in your previous thread must amount to something, or else what is it good for?  Probably not just to bump off some inconsequential characters and not necessarily just to complete her list. 

 

Nymeria may be a clue to anti-dragon sentiments but I'm not too sure about the FM and Braavos. Dany has just freed thousands of people in Slaver's Bay and may continue on this course in Essos before she reaches Westeros. Slavery has been one of the main concerns of the Braavosi and the FM so why would they want to assassinate her? The question also is, do the FM only act on contract or do they at times pursue their own agenda? 

If Dany should commit a series of atrocities in Westeros after landing, then it's possible some might want to get rid of her, but I do not see this as Arya's role. Arya could play a role in hampering Dany's war effort though. I'm thinking of Nymeria and her pack amid the Dothraki horse lines. That would put the Dothraki calvary in disarray again and again, rendering them ineffective as a fighting unit. Arya need not even be anywhere near the pack. We've seen her run with and guide Nymeria through her wolf dreams from far away Braavos. 

I think GRRM is saving Euron for Arya. Aside from the Others, Euron strikes me as the biggest menace and threat to Westeros and someone will have to do him in. With his VS-Armor and the possible acquisition of a VS-Sword plus all that sorcery in the background, I doubt anyone will be a match for him in a normal combat situation. Arya is a stealth assassin. All elements of her training will become super important and relevant if she's to go against a foe as formidable as Euron. 
ETA: The anti-dragon hints apply to Euron as well. 

 

I agree with this but not that she will end up a lady of some powerful lord's household. I think Arya will have become too used to her independence to settle down in the traditional fashion. I don't really see her sailing off around the world either but can imagine her for instance championing the rights of women who feel inclined to depart from traditional female roles. How about creating an institution where martially inclined girls and women can  officially learn the skills of warfare, or even to defend themselves? Or founding an institution of learning for women? Though that may be something Tyrion might consider. 

 

Braavos is a city with many factions in it, so I doubt that they would be monolithic in their treatment of Dany.

Arya is a another story. Aside from the small matter of their family feud, they have tons in common. A princess who fled to Essos, after the fall of her House. She has lived among small folk and identify with them. She is driven by a personal sense of justice and duty. Is fascinated by ships and sailing. Speaks multiple languages and has lived in many different environments. Is deeply protective of those she deems her own.

All of these statements apply to both Dany and Arya. Arya would also be enthusiastic about Dany freeing slaves, inspired by the fact that she is a young woman ruling in her own right and fascinated by the dragons. Plus her banter with Tyrion will be epic.

In addition to that her skillset seems tailor made to counter Varys. She can disguise herself and ferret out information in ways he can't even dream off. And let's not forget cats eat little birds and mice.

So, in the dance of the dragons Arya would gravitate on Dany's side. It might not play out quite like this. 

[BlackLightning]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Like how she ended in the show?

No. Not at all.

The North's separation from the other Seven Kingdoms makes zero sense. In fact, within the context of the show, it's both idiotic and extremely harmful. And the Stark dynasty will die as soon as it started.

Rickon (I am 90% sure that he will survive the series) will be the Lord of Winterfell and the forefather of all future male-line Stark descendants. Under Rickon's leadership, I think the Starks will go back to their roots as being more like the Free Folk and the Skagosi. That can't happen under Sansa.

However, I do see Sansa being Bran's Hand of the King...the first female Hand. Out of all the surviving Starks, she is the most capable and the most prepared to deal with both the lowborn and the highborn.

[Angel Eyes]

30 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

No. Not at all.

The North's separation from the other Seven Kingdoms makes zero sense. In fact, within the context of the show, it's both idiotic and extremely harmful. And the Stark dynasty will die as soon as it started.

Rickon (I am 90% sure that he will survive the series) will be the Lord of Winterfell and the forefather of all future male-line Stark descendants. Under Rickon's leadership, I think the Starks will go back to their roots as being more like the Free Folk and the Skagosi. That can't happen under Sansa.

However, I do see Sansa being Bran's Hand of the King...the first female Hand. Out of all the surviving Starks, she is the most capable and the most prepared to deal with both the lowborn and the highborn.

Well, like how you suggested, Sansa does wind up being all alone in the show which is what I was getting at.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

36 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

No. Not at all.

The North's separation from the other Seven Kingdoms makes zero sense. In fact, within the context of the show, it's both idiotic and extremely harmful. And the Stark dynasty will die as soon as it started.

Rickon (I am 90% sure that he will survive the series) will be the Lord of Winterfell and the forefather of all future male-line Stark descendants. Under Rickon's leadership, I think the Starks will go back to their roots as being more like the Free Folk and the Skagosi. That can't happen under Sansa.

However, I do see Sansa being Bran's Hand of the King...the first female Hand. Out of all the surviving Starks, she is the most capable and the most prepared to deal with both the lowborn and the highborn.

Jon will either be King of the North or the Iron Throne

[BlackLightning]

4 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Jon will either be King of the North or the Iron Throne

Maybe King of the North. Certainly of the Iron Throne...it's his birthright. But Jon will be King for a short period of time; not the endgame king.

The endgame king will be Bran.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

8 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Maybe King of the North. Certainly of the Iron Throne...it's his birthright. But Jon will be King for a short period of time; not the endgame king.

The endgame king will be Bran.

Nah, I will forever be in denial about that. It’s a stupid ending and I refuse to believe GRRM confirmed it

[Craving Peaches]

22 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

The endgame king will be Bran.

I hope not...

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I hope not...

It’s so insulting to me. Like Dany or Jon being on throne makes sense. fAegon makes sense. The 7K splitting back to 7 independent kingdoms makes sense.

I do not see how Westeros would accept Bran as King. Maybe the North and Riverlands. But no where else 

[The Sleeper]

The Seven Kingdoms are defunct as a political entity now and King's Landing will most probably end up as a heap of burnt rubble. I don't see how they would survive a second round of full-blown warfare. I could see a more loose coalition of regional kingdoms being set up afterwards, but other than that... 

But Bran is the King in the North. There's tons of foreshadowing since the first book. Nevermind the fact that he is the rightful heir, a religious symbol, the most powerful magic user in the books, the one most associated with Winterfell etc. 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Arya is learning to distinguish vengeance from justice so I suspect that in the end her role will be to impose some sort of judgement on her family's vanquished enemies. She will have the chance to claim vengeance, but will grant justice. 

 

[Craving Peaches]

13 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

I do not see how Westeros would accept Bran as King.

They would also have no reason to believe that Bran could father an heir so, by picking him, they are almost certainly guaranteeing another round of conflict when King Bran I dies unless Rickon survives that long and the succession is magically not contested.

[Springwatch]

The only true business for a Stark is fighting winter and the Others. That's what they'll all do. The song of ice and fire.

[Angel Eyes]

On 5/31/2023 at 2:36 PM, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

It’s so insulting to me. Like Dany or Jon being on throne makes sense. fAegon makes sense. The 7K splitting back to 7 independent kingdoms makes sense.

I do not see how Westeros would accept Bran as King. Maybe the North and Riverlands. But no where else 

Maybe not even the North, given how the Karstark sons were saying that Bran should kill himself (which also makes Tyrion appear rather foolish).

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Maybe not even the North, given how the Karstark sons were saying that Bran should kill himself (which also makes Tyrion appear rather foolish).

Like I’m not sure how many, if any of you have watched Naruto, or are like me, who seen parts of it but knows how it ends.

But if Bran is like, King in the shadows, running everything. Like giving Jon, Sansa, or whoever information and what not, I could see it. 

[MissM]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:23 AM, Bowen Marsh said:

She is the discomfort added to the plot.  Arya is very polarizing.  Most hate or love and little in between when it comes to Arya.  We read about the ugly side of revenge after it has corrupted the heart through Arya. 

That's only you and the other 5 posters on this board who obsessively hate on her. You don't represent the wider readership, so please pipe down. 

 

[Kal-L]

GRRM made sure that no non-valyrian looking Targaryen ever ascended the Iron Throne and I doubt the intention was to start with Rhaegar's son. If Jon ever rule Westeros, it won't be as a classic Targaryen.

He will most likely be the King of Winter until the end of the Long Night.