Dating Thread: Hope Springs Eternal

[Tywin et al.]

Sad to hear one of my step-brothers tell me he's considering divorcing his wife. I really like her. The hang up seems to be he wants kids and she doesn't want to have sex. I did my best to give him some advice, but Idk if it will do much help.

[kiko]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sad to hear one of my step-brothers tell me he's considering divorcing his wife. I really like her. The hang up seems to be he wants kids and she doesn't want to have sex. I did my best to give him some advice, but Idk if it will do much help.

Have they thought about IVF? This way they both get their wishes done.

[Tywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, kiko said:

Have they thought about IVF? This way they both get their wishes done.

Nah, it just sounds like they've grown apart. And I know him better than just about anybody I've known in my life. He's even hornier than me, so the no sex aspect is probably making him do things he doesn't really want to tell me. I hope I'm wrong. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I mean sounds like there are deeper issues?  "(S)he doesn't want to have sex" can be code for all kinds of things, but it usually means there is something else there that is not being addressed.  If their big issue is that he wants kids and she doesn't, then, well, maybe they should split because that won't reconcile itself.

[Maithanet]

Yeah, it is basically impossible to have a relationship that is going well except that you've stopped having sex.  Hopefully he can get to the bottom of what that is before having to resort to divorce. 

[VigoTheCarpathian]

50 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I mean sounds like there are deeper issues?  "(S)he doesn't want to have sex" can be code for all kinds of things, but it usually means there is something else there that is not being addressed.  If their big issue is that he wants kids and she doesn't, then, well, maybe they should split because that won't reconcile itself.

Yeah, this.  Sex is a precursor to kids, so it might be her way of ending the relationship passively (knowing he wants sex) or it’s likely something deeper (i.e., she doesn’t want kids and is closing off that possibility without talking about the real reason, knowing that would end the relationship immediately if she said it out loud).  I don’t pretend to know, but I would doubt there isn’t something deeper - depression, unresolved trauma, not feeling valued in the relationship, she could be asexual and just didn’t know it until she was in a committed relationship for a while and it was an expectation. 

Having been through something similar, I would suggest marriage counseling/couples therapy before they do anything drastic, if the rest of the relationship is positive and they both want to keep it.  Even if it is only sexual asymmetry, that’s not situation you can work through objectively with each other - too many personal stakes. And it’s important to work through explicitly before kids - it’s no harm/no foul if counseling is a bust and it goes to divorce.

[Toth]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:25 PM, Madame deVenoge said:

It’s the way he expresses this occasionally as a dig at me that has me on edge. 

So, next time he does it, I will talk with him rather than just ignore it.

Mmh, I've been wondering... why wait until it happens again? Given your previous descriptions of his behavior, I have a vague feeling that it might be even simpler to just bring it up yourself in an appropriate moment. "Remember that joke you did about me being "broke"? I didn't say anything back then, but it's been weighing on my mind this whole time and can't help but find it hurtful." Something along these lines. I'm thinking that portraying it as something you thought over may indicate you being hurt as a more serious concern than expressing it "in the heat of the moment", so to speak. It may even be that he either mistakes it for banter or, in the case of this dragging out even more, for you to bottle up your frustration and make your reaction worse than necessary.

[Tywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I mean sounds like there are deeper issues?  "(S)he doesn't want to have sex" can be code for all kinds of things, but it usually means there is something else there that is not being addressed.  If their big issue is that he wants kids and she doesn't, then, well, maybe they should split because that won't reconcile itself.

She doesn't want to right now. If I had to guess the issue is that because he's in the military he's gone a lot and for long times and when he's home he doesn't give her the attention she wants. 

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah, it is basically impossible to have a relationship that is going well except that you've stopped having sex.  Hopefully he can get to the bottom of what that is before having to resort to divorce. 

I think I've said this here before, but a friend told me the she had gone well over a year without sleeping with her husband, and it was when they were in their early to mid 30's. I just don't get how that happens. She said she tried damn near everything to get him to. And what's crazy is she's really attractive. She deactivated most of her social media stuff because it was depressing her that random guys would hit her up all the time, but her husband showed no interest. 

Dating and relationships in general are weird these days. It must have been easier before the internet and cell phones. 

[BigFatCoward]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Dating and relationships in general are weird these days. It must have been easier before the internet and cell phones. 

Everything is weird these days, and everything was easier in the time before. 

You don't get as many flashers now though, as you can just bombard people with dick picks from the comfort of your own home. 

Sex is always an issue, I doubt there's ever been a couple who were 'perfectly compatible'. I know we aren't, I'm a nasty horny bastard and she isn't.

I think people are too hung up on that though when it probably forms about 2% of the time you spend together even if you are fairly regularly banging. Liking the same TV, food and social activities are far more important. 

[Toth]

Mmh... only tangentially dating related, but I recently noticed something that keeps bugging me. Remember my only non-date that came out of my Bumble experience two years ago? The bored Chinese Master student. Half a year after she told me I've been too much in contact with her and shouldn't initiate things anymore and her never writing back either, I had erased her number. But now I saw when checking through my text messages that I still had her messages, which naturally includes her number. I guess it's a testimony to how stupid I am that I am considering writing to check in how it's going. Really bad idea, right?

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

I think people are too hung up on that though when it probably forms about 2% of the time you spend together even if you are fairly regularly banging. Liking the same TV, food and social activities are far more important. 

I'm not sure I agree.  If you don't want to watch the same TV or she hates sushi or something, you can just go do that with friends.  Most western couples rely on our partners for a great deal of social interactions, but there are inevitably going to be places where you aren't interested in the same things and that's what friends, family, or even random acquaintances can help fill gaps.  But sex is something that is expected to come from your partner*.  If you aren't having sex at all, it indicates something is wrong and that's a pretty big deal.  We have a sex drive that is built in, and that is very different from our desire to eat a specific food or watch certain movies.  People are rarely happy in sexless long term relationships. 

* Excluding an open relationship where you aren't having sex with your main partner but are having sex elsewhere, which is fairly uncommon. 

Edited June 28 by Maithanet

[dog-days]

14 minutes ago, Toth said:

Mmh... only tangentially dating related, but I recently noticed something that keeps bugging me. Remember my only non-date that came out of my Bumble experience two years ago? The bored Chinese Master student. Half a year after she told me I've been too much in contact with her and shouldn't initiate things anymore and her never writing back either, I had erased her number. But now I saw when checking through my text messages that I still had her messages, which naturally includes her number. I guess it's a testimony to how stupid I am that I am considering writing to check in how it's going. Really bad idea, right?

Yes, sorry. 

[Toth]

29 minutes ago, dog-days said:

Yes, sorry. 

Thanks! Yes, that's what I needed to hear. I guess part of me still hoped I could sort out the misunderstanding that caused this in the first place, what with me expecting her to remember to ask me again if I succeed freeing up the weekend for the second meeting without reminding her that day and then getting annoyed at it (though she blew up at me without me even getting to express that annoyance - she... seemed quite stressed and confused... and I was too taken aback to not do anything but take her at her word and give her the space she needed). I was also confused that her explanation was "I don't have regular contact even with close friends, that's just how I prefer things", which... I interpreted as meaning that loose contact was okay, as long as it is initiated by her. And while I am thinking that if she'd be fine with me, she would have messaged me somewhere down the line... I can't avoid thinking that nobody ever messaged me out of the blue and everyone I know instantly disappears the moment I stop reaching out to them. That's just how it is. I'm the one who isn't normal for expecting other people to make an effort out of their own volition, which is just a painful mindset.

Yes, I better erase those messages as well. No point in looking back.

[dog-days]

16 minutes ago, Toth said:

Thanks! Yes, that's what I needed to hear. I guess part of me still hoped I could sort out the misunderstanding that caused this in the first place, what with me expecting her to remember to ask me again if I succeed freeing up the weekend for the second meeting without reminding her that day and then getting annoyed at it (though she blew up at me without me even getting to express that annoyance - she... seemed quite stressed and confused... and I was too taken aback to not do anything but take her at her word and give her the space she needed). I was also confused that her explanation was "I don't have regular contact even with close friends, that's just how I prefer things", which... I interpreted as meaning that loose contact was okay, as long as it is initiated by her. And while I am thinking that if she'd be fine with me, she would have messaged me somewhere down the line... I can't avoid thinking that nobody ever messaged me out of the blue and everyone I know instantly disappears the moment I stop reaching out to them. That's just how it is. I'm the one who isn't normal for expecting other people to make an effort out of their own volition, which is just a painful mindset.

Yes, I better erase those messages as well. No point in looking back.

Writing this late at night by my standards so apologies for incoherence, anyway – 

I think forming lasting connections of any sort in adulthood is difficult, especially so for the demographic of people in which you and I likely sit. But outside our own experience, there are plenty of stories in the media reflecting this (here's just one of many examples.) This is why I try and join evening-class-type things, where not much is expected beyond that you turn up every week and refrain from setting fire to the classroom. Because social bonds tend to take RL time to develop. 

In the case of your contact, it's hard to know what was going on with her; it sounds as if she may have had her own issues, which she will need to deal with. But yes, if she wanted further contact, she would have messaged you. 

[Tywin et al.]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Everything is weird these days

Ain't that the truth.

Quote

Sex is always an issue, I doubt there's ever been a couple who were 'perfectly compatible'. I know we aren't, I'm a nasty horny bastard and she isn't.

I think it becomes an issue when you can't talk about it. Some of the best sex I've had was with women who the first time didn't go ideally, but we could discuss what went right and wrong and after a bit of time we were driving each other insane. It's important to be patient and figure one another out. Every so often you meet someone you're on the same page with from day one, but that's not the norm for most people.

Quote

I think people are too hung up on that though when it probably forms about 2% of the time you spend together even if you are fairly regularly banging. Liking the same TV, food and social activities are far more important. 

 Have to agree with Maith here. It's nice if you like the same movies and have similar tastes in food etc., but sex is important and when your partner who you've been sleeping with for a long time doesn't want to fuck you anymore you have a problem. It's one you can work through, but it's important to recognize that it's a sign something is off. 

[Toth]

19 hours ago, dog-days said:

Writing this late at night by my standards so apologies for incoherence, anyway – 

Oh, sorry! Don't do that. I was already up far too late myself. Thank you very much for the reply anyway.

19 hours ago, dog-days said:

I think forming lasting connections of any sort in adulthood is difficult, especially so for the demographic of people in which you and I likely sit. But outside our own experience, there are plenty of stories in the media reflecting this (here's just one of many examples.) This is why I try and join evening-class-type things, where not much is expected beyond that you turn up every week and refrain from setting fire to the classroom. Because social bonds tend to take RL time to develop. 

Yeah, it just sucks. Though your thing with the evening classes is definitely a good idea to combat it. You need regular contact with the same people after all in order to build something.

What frustrates me, I guess, is my utter ineptitude at gauging how much contact is enough. My mother phones her best and only friend once every few months or so and they still consider each other deeply in contact, though admittedly they are former coworkers who used to see each other every day. I have two contacts from this forum here who get mad at me if I can't bring myself to call them friends and with whom I have quite regular chat contact, maybe twice a week with a few longer breaks of a couple of weeks in which I am feeling quite starved of interaction because I have literally nobody else. Which is I guess really bad because to most people it seems quite ridiculous to chime in and wanting to exchange how it's going twice a week and that I'm here also almost always the one initiating.

I guess I also have one person from a group I worked with at university who hasn't changed her number yet and whom I can chat with once or twice a year, but we never managed to set up the joint lesson preparation meetups we tried to be in contact for in the first place (and now she abandoned the teacher job on top of that). Given that very scarce contact and the fact that it always has to be me initiating contact, I find that I can hardly call her a friend, but... apparently to most people that's the normal state of contact.

19 hours ago, dog-days said:

In the case of your contact, it's hard to know what was going on with her; it sounds as if she may have had her own issues, which she will need to deal with. But yes, if she wanted further contact, she would have messaged you. 

I indeed got the feeling through her previous explanations of her time here that she had been dealing with quite severe isolation, but at the same time she seemed to isolate herself quite wilfully as well as act recklessly impulsive when it comes to fleeing to short weekend trips across Europe just to get her mind off slumps. So yeah. In any case, that explanation that my way of regularly checking up on how things were going on her end seemed intrusive to her does make sense.

Frustratingly, it is so vexing that the exact same shit happened to me again last year with a person I met in an online game and with whom I bonded over Umineko (as in, the story from my signature) and... who also snapped at me quite severely after our once a week Anime watch meetups on Skype turned to once a week fanfic "word wars" turned into once a week mindless chatting because she got increasingly frustrated with the direction of the fandom and in the end decided to ditch it entirely. She then after bitingly telling me that she doesn't like such regular contact, she effectively ghosted me. A few months ago I got worried about flash floods in the news in her area, I messaged her again and after some more weeks I got an explanation reiterating that she is getting extremely bored by people talking to her about things she isn't invested in and doesn't want to bore them as well with the stuff she's right now obsessing about and that's why she cuts all contact with not me, but everyone... aaaaaand as I was just trying to check how long ago that message was, I notice it's gone, same as her entire account and her blog has been dead for five months. Sigh... Can't help but feel that's my fault, since I answered her with a long-winded apology, despite knowing that reading more of me would have been the last she wanted. Damn it, why am I like this...

So long story short, it is obvious that my loneliness related (online) talkativeness is being perceived as extremely oppressive, but at the same time people instantly disappear the moment I stop writing, since nobody ever bothers enough to return the attention, so I don't know what to do. It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't kind of thing.

*looks around* Ahem, sorry for the off-topic rant.

[Madame deVenoge]

Oh my…I am not in a good place right now.

Last night, I was out with friends, and the Doctor called. I answered, and he said “what are you doing?” And I said “out and about, can I call you back?” And he said something kind of short and dismissive, and hung up the phone,

I went outside 5 minutes later and tried to call him back; no answer. I called at 11:30 this morning, when he was supposed to be done with work. No answer. I texted “is everything ok?” No answer.

We were supposed to go to Charleston, today. I don’t know if that’s happening. I might be really paranoid, but did I get broken up with??

[Maithanet]

That sucks Chats. 

IMO either something is going on that you don't know about (family/work emergency or something) or he's thinking about breaking up and doesn't want to talk right now. 

[Cas Stark]

59 minutes ago, Madame deVenoge said:

Oh my…I am not in a good place right now.

Last night, I was out with friends, and the Doctor called. I answered, and he said “what are you doing?” And I said “out and about, can I call you back?” And he said something kind of short and dismissive, and hung up the phone,

I went outside 5 minutes later and tried to call him back; no answer. I called at 11:30 this morning, when he was supposed to be done with work. No answer. I texted “is everything ok?” No answer.

We were supposed to go to Charleston, today. I don’t know if that’s happening. I might be really paranoid, but did I get broken up with??

I haven't read the whole thread, did you have a 'talk' with him about joking you were broke?  I had a different take on that than  most everyone else.

You might be paranoid, but that's a lot of non responsiveness in a short time.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[Madame deVenoge]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I haven't read the whole thread, did you have a 'talk' with him about joking you were broke?  I had a different take on that than  most everyone else.

You might be paranoid, but that's a lot of non responsiveness in a short time.  Good luck and keep us posted.

Hadn’t even seen him in person to have a discussion with him on his “jokes”.

I’ll keep you guys posted!