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Lefty Internal Politics: How to Talk About This Stuff?


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So, you all believe NYC was burned down by Black Lives Matter in the summer of 2020 too.  :P

Meanwhile, how many kids have been killed in the US since this thread was begun by the fascists?

In the meantime I give your ilks --

Here’s What Happens When Your Lawyer Uses ChatGPT

A lawyer representing a man who sued an airline relied on artificial intelligence to help prepare a court filing. It did not go well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/27/nyregion/avianca-airline-lawsuit-chatgpt.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Obvs, beyond bad faith posting here, this is going on with your antifa.

Edited by Zorral
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9 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So, you all believe NYC was burned down by Black Lives Matter in the summer of 2020 too.  :P

I can never predict your responses.

Do you think BLM existing would necessitate them burning down NYC?

I don’t acknowledging some things that terrify the cultural right is a bad thing actually.

11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Meanwhile, how many kids have been killed in the US since this thread was begun by the fascists?

Yep it sounds like more militant activism may be a good thing to give in response.

Hence my general support for antifas and progressive groups that are willing to use force for self-defense. 

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4 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said:

I guess you would need something better than twitter handles to prpve that antifa is similar to the proud boys in terms of organization, etc.

No one said they were an formal group like the proud boys. That is a lie pushed by the far right to try and justify banning anti-fascist activism outright.

But the activism itself exist, the activists exist, and they should be supported(generally).

 

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On 5/26/2023 at 4:03 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

In a word: Overcorrection.

It's unfortunately very common to finally correct against something wrong, and then try to push as far as possible in another direction. Obviously the oppositional dynamic of the culture war is part of why this is, but I also think it has to do with certain communities holding only one value in their heads, and then wanting to maximize that value with no thought as to possible unforeseen costs or ramifications. 

The right goes absolutely insane with overcorrection, but most of what I'm criticizing in the OP could be construed as the ways in which very understandable aims and concerns on the left are pushed to absurd extremes.

I missed this post.

There has been no over correction.

I think it’s been more a progression of people trying to barter sympathy for  gnc and queer people through going “it’s not their fault they didn’t choose to be this way!”
I get how some more moderate or conservatives people  could be made to feel bit more alright with gender non-conforming, and queer adults in society so long they’re virtually invisible in the public square and they’re understood  as having an illness that makes them act in ways shouldn’t be viewed by children, reproduced by them or even preferably exposed to them.

Dave Rubin for example is loved by millions of conservatives and I’m sure they’d if asked would praise him immensely for his—a lot of them would still take his children out of the concern his homosexual lifestyle would groom his children into being gay.

Glenn beck says he sympathizes with Rubin because he’s genetically prone to alcoholism.

My point is this sort of understanding doesn’t secure anyone’s rights.

If you accept same-sex activity to being similar to drunkenness it shouldn’t be that hard to move to public displays of it especially when children may be in witness of it shouldn’t be allowed. A common response to the “it’s not their fault” motif is “You may not have chosen to be this bad thing(same-sex attracted) but you choose to act on it(act gay).”

And a progression from seeing  gnc, and queer people as inevitably having to go through a lifetime of great pain and struggle—can get people out of concern(sometimes even genuine) to discourage people they love from engaging in behavior that will invite that suffering.

On 5/26/2023 at 5:29 AM, Secretary of Eumenes said:

I don't have to be grateful that Trans-adjacent actors are being used as shock troops in a cirque-du-soleils trolling campaign just because a bunch of affluent whites learned about non-binariness in their thirties and forties. 

Oh so should Elliot Page been fired from the show he was working and/or black listed from Hollywood when he came out as trans?

Or should he have been pressured to continue to play a woman.

Hey out of curiosity should Star Trek have starred an all white American cast as to avoid the backlash from the groups that were holding public lynching as festival? Hell should have Hollywood have hired any non-white actors to do anything to break racial stereotypes? I don’t think you do.

God I wish more libs can understand even the small steps people must take in order to progress culture.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321
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45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

Oh so should Elliot Page been fired from the show he was working and/or black listed from Hollywood when he came out as trans?

Or should he have been pressured to continue to play a woman.

 

I'll beg your pardon on this one. I meant "actors" as in Political Actors. Just folks going around doing stuff with politics being the driving motivation. 

I didn't know Elliot Page has done a show since transitioning - normally I don't warp my viewing habits around peoples' personal decisions but I'd actually rather like to see that. Always been a fan, and I often refer to the guy as "E-Page" when in past-tense because I -personally- don't understand, like, why his accomplishments pre-transition need to be retrospectively filtered. But that's just me and I only bring it up because, well, we're talking about the motherfucker. 

I didn't know he was still acting, I'd assumed he retired or something. 

(I don't Google people unless, like, I'm after some specific bit of information about them. It feels intrusive to me.) 

 

52 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

Hey out of curiosity should Star Trek have starred an all white American cast as to avoid the backlash from the groups that were holding public lynching as festival? Hell should have Hollywood have hired any non-white actors to do anything to break racial stereotypes?

C'mon man, gimme a break. 

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41 minutes ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

I'll beg your pardon on this one. I meant "actors" as in Political Actors. Just folks going around doing stuff with politics being the driving motivation. 

I didn't know Elliot Page has done a show since transitioning - normally I don't warp my viewing habits around peoples' personal decisions but I'd actually rather like to see that. Always been a fan, and I often refer to the guy as "E-Page" when in past-tense because I -personally- don't understand, like, why his accomplishments pre-transition need to be retrospectively filtered. But that's just me and I only bring it up because, well, we're talking about the motherfucker. 

Oh that sounds worse actually those people can’t even be ascribed as accepting a job in entertainment and having their identity politicized, they’re political activists who actively joined in a cause with its associated risks.

41 minutes ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

C'mon man, gimme a break. 

Sigh I lost the quoted bit.

Okay I’ll continue here. Your praising of Will and Grace and Neil Patrick Harris  example is so frustrating and depressing to me. 

The entry point you seem to be giving for meaningful activism to help change a culture precludes 99% of humanity. We can’t all become break out stars and come out as gay or make Hit tv shows. 

A movement needs activists who won’t be recognized and praised by millions, won’t get endlessly talked about, that will do things that will seem cringe, performative, and possibly pointless in isolation.

 

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25 minutes ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

What? 

Dude, Nancy Pelosi is a Political Actor.

So is Tim Scott, Ron DeSantis, and Hilary Clinton. 

Stop.

Okay, do you think trans political actors are being manipulated or pressured into doing things to satisfy the whims of liberal white people in their 30s and 40s?

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9 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I think it’s been more a progression of people trying to barter sympathy for  gnc and queer people through going “it’s not their fault they didn’t choose to be this way!”

I can't type much now, but wanted to point out that I amended that post to note that "overcorrection" wasn't quite what I was talking about. The key is here:

Obviously the oppositional dynamic of the culture war is part of why this is, but I also think it has to do with certain communities holding only one value in their heads, and then wanting to maximize that value with no thought as to possible unforeseen costs or ramifications. 

In the case of the left, what I think is worthy of critique is when there's a kind of tunnel vision, focusing on maximizing one or two values with no thought to anything else. Where that point is will obviously be a subject of disagreement, but I would hope that most people would agree that such a blinkered approach would not be a good thing, generally speaking.

Plus, maximizing implies that one can never have too much of a good thing. I very much believe that virtues, vices, and deficiencies are a better way of understanding it. I cant think of anything that we should want to maximize rather than optimize, save for concepts like love and justice in their most abstract forms.

I can't get into specifics this second, but just wanted to point out how "overcorrection" wasn't quite the word I wanted.

 

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7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Okay, do you think trans political actors are being manipulated or pressured into doing things to satisfy the whims of liberal white people in their 30s and 40s?

Probably? 

But we were talking about Drag Queens. 

And as I'm constantly updated by the Alphabet People every sixteen seconds when they discover a new fad to confuse with "Gender Expression" (or whatever gibberish is the order of the hour)...

Drag Queens and Trans are different things. I am Trans but not a Drag Queen: hence "trans-adjacent" Political Actors. People who are like-trans, but not Trans. Adds to my distaste for the situation. Joe DumbTrump doesn't know the difference, is gonna take out his frustration on people like me.

And just so we're clear: Political Actor- a person active in politics. Being a film or TV actor has nothing to do with it. 

And get over yourself calling me out for thinking of Neil Patrick Harris as one of my Artist Exemplars- seriously: he's an incredible performer and a lot braver than any of these spoiled shits who live off Twitter in real safe states that bend over backwards to appease the Alphabet Brigade. 

Edited by Secretary of Eumenes
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Sorry to DP:

But a lot of these motherfuckers need a gift card to Hobby Lobby more than they need an update to the next Digital Issue of Made Up Human Experiences to Pretend I'm Not One of An Infinite Number of Identical, Perfectly Cylindrical, Black or White Pieces On the Board of Jesus and Satan's Backgammon Game - Weekly

 

(Joke credit, Bo Burnham) 

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5 hours ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

But we were talking about Drag Queens. 

Yes and you immediately rushed to to talk about how it’s not wrong for parents to not want their kids to become gay or more accepting of gay people then moved than morphed the conversation about talking about trans people. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

Probably

Incredibly infantilizing. And more importantly from my viewing tans politicians generally untrue.

5 hours ago, Secretary of Eumenes said:

get over yourself calling me out for thinking of Neil Patrick Harris as one of my Artist Exemplars- seriously: he's an incredible performer and a lot braver than any of these spoiled shits who live off Twitter in real safe states that bend over backwards to appease the Alphabet Brigade. 

My point wasn’t to attack him as a person or his contribution to the acceptance of the acceptance of the lgbt community.

No movement can sustain itself or progress towards its goals if they waited around for everyone with a significant degree of celebrity to come out as a member of that group. You have to boots on the ground trying to create an environment amenable to your groups goals.

Also Its not divine mandate that any population doesn’t get worse on a social issue and republicans have made clear if in control they’ll take their culture hysteria nationally, they rely on this lie of respecting states rights to get people complacent.

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Neil Patrick Harris just confirmed as the first Eastern Hemisphere  AI, created mostly from the work of an Indonesian grad student but patented by NBC thanks to their Party Ownership; apparently IBM and Apple have two independently-germed constructions (went to different schools together) trying to recycle flatulence at Pacific floor conditions.  It's a Bigfoot vs Dracula-Squid showdown and the losers are all of us except the re-animated hive-mind managed homonculous of Honest Abe.  He's got a packed schedule of Amazon union-busting activities but you can suck him off for a $8.99 a month donation to Fellatio for Freedom.  

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11 hours ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Neil Patrick Harris just confirmed as the first Eastern Hemisphere  AI, created mostly from the work of an Indonesian grad student but patented by NBC thanks to their Party Ownership; apparently IBM and Apple have two independently-germed constructions (went to different schools together) trying to recycle flatulence at Pacific floor conditions.  It's a Bigfoot vs Dracula-Squid showdown and the losers are all of us except the re-animated hive-mind managed homonculous of Honest Abe.  He's got a packed schedule of Amazon union-busting activities but you can suck him off for a $8.99 a month donation to Fellatio for Freedom.  

Ellen Denegrass helped normalize gay people too. Terrible boss as I hear.

Kevin Spacey is a sexual predator 
Yeah that’s the problem with just waiting for celebrities to come out as something, or in support of something to help move the dial for a movement.

The celebrity can turn out to be  a terrible person and the terribleness rightly or wrongly will be attached to a faucet of their identity or activism and for some people that’ll be the main frame of reference they think of when thinking of gay rights.

Or people can just see it as poor affliction on a talented individual like alcoholism

On 5/28/2023 at 2:42 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I can't type much now, but wanted to point out that I amended that post to note that "overcorrection" wasn't quite what I was talking about. The key is here:

Obviously the oppositional dynamic of the culture war is part of why this is, but I also think it has to do with certain communities holding only one value in their heads, and then wanting to maximize that value with no thought as to possible unforeseen costs or ramifications. 

In the case of the left, what I think is worthy of critique is when there's a kind of tunnel vision, focusing on maximizing one or two values with no thought to anything else. Where that point is will obviously be a subject of disagreement, but I would hope that most people would agree that such a blinkered approach would not be a good thing, generally speaking.

Plus, maximizing implies that one can never have too much of a good thing. I very much believe that virtues, vices, and deficiencies are a better way of understanding it. I cant think of anything that we should want to maximize rather than optimize, save for concepts like love and justice in their most abstract forms.

I can't get into specifics this second, but just wanted to point out how "overcorrection" wasn't quite the word I wanted.

 


Generally speaking maybe, In this specific case I have to say based on what I’m getting from your words(and I may be misunderstanding so please correct me) I’m inclined to say I don’t think so.

There can never actually be too much acceptance of Gender-nonconformity, trans people and gay people  which I think was the original point of contention with the or at least a goal of Drag queen story hour and I refuse to pretend the left is acting irresponsibly by virtue of trying to get young people especially children to realize this fact or help cement this in their minds. 

I acknowledge you’ve given the qualifier in your op on how the right is worse than the left and how offering internal criticism is necessary etc etc. I do feel you may catastrophizing cringe ‘Twitter’ lefties as the main faucet of the left when you frame the reaction to the right’s moral panics as reckless(would that be better word for what you trying to describe)  .

Least broadly. Like instead of hyperfixating internet horror stories of even big name progressive YouTubers getting canceled for  innocuous takes maybe let’s look what policies are being implemented and seriously suggested and pushed in halls of power by the “left”

And it’s usually the most milktoast shit that no one on the left who doesn’t have their reactionary baggage would get angry about.

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321
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the terribleness rightly or wrongly will be attached

wrongly, of course, unless the terrible arises out of an intrinsic characteristic rather than incidental deviations from principle.  no one is advocating for anthropophagist rights, but that's what rightwing panic implies.

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