“King Robert with teats”

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

Anyone else love how much delicious irony is in Cersei’s story. She absolutely loathes Robert to her core and she thinks herself hot shit. But in reality she is just a female Robert. She is getting fatter, she is an alcoholic, she abuses women, and she is very fiscally irresponsible. It’s absolutely hilarious. 
 

She thought she was Tywin(who isn’t that smart IMO), but she is actually like Robert, and she is turning into Aerys.

[frenin]

She's only superficially like Robert tbh.

She has Robert's ego to be sure but then again, all the Lannister siblings do.

Also I'm pretty sure Robert got to have tits on his late age anyway.

[astarkchoice]

9 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Anyone else love how much delicious irony is in Cersei’s story. She absolutely loathes Robert to her core and she thinks herself hot shit. But in reality she is just a female Robert. She is getting fatter, she is an alcoholic, she abuses women, and she is very fiscally irresponsible. It’s absolutely hilarious. 
 

She thought she was Tywin(who isn’t that smart IMO), but she is actually like Robert, and she is turning into Aerys.

Shes worse though  far worse and doesnt realise it.

She lacks his ability to win people over for all his flaws robert was loved, his hard drinking lust for life  honest personality and general honourable nature had even some ex enemies warm to him.

He didnt get along with his family either BUT he had a working relationship with bith brothers and got a lotta shit done!

 

 

[Daena the Defiant]

11 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Anyone else love how much delicious irony is in Cersei’s story. She absolutely loathes Robert to her core and she thinks herself hot shit. But in reality she is just a female Robert. She is getting fatter, she is an alcoholic, she abuses women, and she is very fiscally irresponsible. It’s absolutely hilarious. 
 

She thought she was Tywin(who isn’t that smart IMO), but she is actually like Robert, and she is turning into Aerys.

Robert was also valiant, carelessly generous and an inspiring leader who had the ability to turn enemies into friends.  Cersei preys upon her friends (hello, Stokeworth family), and only instills obedience through threats (like ordering maiming of any smith who fails to meet her quota). 

I daresay that Cersei finest moment was how she put up a brave example by hosting all the gentry women in the Holdfast suring Stannis' siege (of course, we know that she was fatalistic and threatening Sansa), but she was serving as a courageous queen to those clustered around her for protection (untill she fled to see to Joffrey's "wounds").

  

[SilverGhost]

There isn't a bridge that Cersei wouldn't burn with Wildfire after three glasses of wine and one disagreement with any of her beliefs, opinions, thoughts, or paranoid delusions. 

Robert was a mediocre King in the mold of Viserys I, the realm had peace and prosperity for the most part but a willful ignorance towards serious issues and ambitious bad actors meant war and chaos upon the death of the King. Without the Rebellion Robert would be another boisterous, lusty, Lord of Storm's End who loved a good fight - which is pretty much the description you'd find next to "historical Baratheon" in a weird dictionary. 

If anyone Cersei is similar to Aegon IV The Unworthy or Ellyn Reyne.   

[Lord Varys]

Cersei cannot even be remotely like Robert because she cannot go out drinking and whoring with the boys now, or can she? It is joke to compare the ability a male lord/king has to win the hearts of his subjects and the ways to win love a woman has.

There are similarities, although they are rather intentional on her. Like many an abused victim Cersei wants to try out rape herself ... and does it with Taena. That is more tragic than evil. The stress makes her drink more, but that is understandable, too. Robert is just an alcoholic for no reason, Cersei ends up drinking more wine that's good for her because she lost her son (apparently murdered by her own brother in front of her) and then also her father to that same brother.

She has a good excuse to resort to rather draconian measures. One wonders what Robb would do if Bran had murdered his son and then also put a bolt in Ned's gut. Sometimes it is good to shoot first and ask questions later.

Cersei still shoots the wrong people, of course, but she is surrounded by traitors and conspirators who want to destroy her. Her methods are correct, she just uses them against the wrong people.

13 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

Robert was a mediocre King in the mold of Viserys I, the realm had peace and prosperity for the most part but a willful ignorance towards serious issues and ambitious bad actors meant war and chaos upon the death of the King. Without the Rebellion Robert would be another boisterous, lusty, Lord of Storm's End who loved a good fight - which is pretty much the description you'd find next to "historical Baratheon" in a weird dictionary. 

Nope, Robert is much worse. Viserys I only problem is the succession issue - Robert was a spendthrift who not only emptied a full treasury but indebted the Crown to multiple (foreign) creditors. Robert also blatantly cultivated factionalism to the highest degree at his court. He put both his brothers into positions where they could easily become pretenders for the throne, he did nothing to check the ambitions of his wife and his wife's family ... and he gave the Realm a Hand who was totally at odds with his wife. It was a recipe for disaster. Viserys did nothing of this sort.

In addition he did nothing to heal the festering wounds that were left both after his own rebellion as well as the Greyjoy Rebellion. Targaryens in exile, their loyalists in Westeros and the Ironborn continued to sharpen their knives while he was looking the other way.

Robert is like a paper shield hiding the rot of a kingdom that's about to disintegrate completely.

[SilverGhost]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Nope, Robert is much worse. Viserys I only problem is the succession issue - Robert was a spendthrift who not only emptied a full treasury but indebted the Crown to multiple (foreign) creditors. Robert also blatantly cultivated factionalism to the highest degree at his court. He put both his brothers into positions where they could easily become pretenders for the throne, he did nothing to check the ambitions of his wife and his wife's family ... and he gave the Realm a Hand who was totally at odds with his wife. It was a recipe for disaster. Viserys did nothing of this sort.

In addition he did nothing to heal the festering wounds that were left both after his own rebellion as well as the Greyjoy Rebellion. Targaryens in exile, their loyalists in Westeros and the Ironborn continued to sharpen their knives while he was looking the other way.

Robert is like a paper shield hiding the rot of a kingdom that's about to disintegrate completely.

Viserys allowed two major factions to form at court, going so far as to bring back Ser Otto Hightower as Hand after the death of Lord Lyonel Strong - the same Ser Otto he fired as Hand because Ser Otto could not seem to stop pushing for Prince Aegon to be named Heir over Rhaenyra. This allowed the Greens to take power in the Red Keep and fill the Small Council with their allies who would eventually launch the coup after his death to put Aegon on the Throne (RIP to the loyal and true Lord Beesbury). At least Robert never brought Tywin in as his Hand.

Viserys kept enabling this brother Daemon, forgiving Daemon time and time again, and always trying to make Daemon a part of his government. In turn Daemon loathed Otto Hightower - an other person Viserys could not just seem to quit bringing back into the fold - and their feud divided the court and was a major factor in developing the factors that begat the Green/Black factions. 

Viserys also turned a blind eye to the fact that Rhaenyra was cheating on her husband. 

Viserys had a lot in common with Robert and he also did nothing to heal the divisions in his court, in fact he enabled them by constantly forgiving the men causing them and bringing them back into his circle of power so that they might continue to chip away at the illusion of peace and happiness he wanted to preserve. 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

Viserys allowed two major factions to form at court, going so far as to bring back Ser Otto Hightower as Hand after the death of Lord Lyonel Strong - the same Ser Otto he fired as Hand because Ser Otto could not seem to stop pushing for Prince Aegon to be named Heir over Rhaenyra. This allowed the Greens to take power in the Red Keep and fill the Small Council with their allies who would eventually launch the coup after his death to put Aegon on the Throne (RIP to the loyal and true Lord Beesbury). At least Robert never brought Tywin in as his Hand.

It is true that Viserys made crucial mistakes ... but he only had two factions at his court and they were two branches of his own family. Robert fueled divisions and strife both within his family with overly generous and (apparently) unjust gifts (Storm's End to Renly, Dragonstone to Stannis) as well as between the great houses of Stark and Lannister - something Viserys never did.

And as I said he also closed to eyes to the festering wounds left by his own rebellion and the Greyjoy Rebellion. He set up the Realm to disintegrate and explode upon his death. When Robert dies three Baratheon pretenders try to claim the throne, two secessionist kings stand up ... and the Targaryen loyalists sharp their knifes to bring the old dynasty back.

(I'd be not so keen to claim that Otto staffed the Small Council with Green lackeys. They turned Green when the king died, but we don't know where they stood before. Keep in mind that Cole and his KG escorted them at swordpoint to the queen's apartments ... and they then did kill Beesbury there, apparently.)

2 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

Viserys kept enabling this brother Daemon, forgiving Daemon time and time again, and always trying to make Daemon a part of his government. In turn Daemon loathed Otto Hightower - an other person Viserys could not just seem to quit bringing back into the fold - and their feud divided the court and was a major factor in developing the factors that begat the Green/Black factions. 

That was a comparatively small issue. He behaves like an asshole, but he never does anything unforgivable. Daemon is effectively no political factor after Rhaenyra is declared Heir Apparent. He only comes back as a real player when he marries Rhaenyra in 120 AC. Then it certainly adds to the animosity between Blacks and Greens but it doesn't cause it.

2 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

Viserys also turned a blind eye to the fact that Rhaenyra was cheating on her husband.

Since Laenor did that, too, or encouraged it, forced her to do it, whatever ... this is a non issue. I mean, do you think the king should defend the honor of a man who is fine with having an open marriage? To Laenor in book and show Rhaenyra's sons are his own. That is only their business, especially since royal blood is transferred from mother to son there. This is not Cersei passing Jaime's children for Robert's.

2 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

Viserys had a lot in common with Robert and he also did nothing to heal the divisions in his court, in fact he enabled them by constantly forgiving the men causing them and bringing them back into his circle of power so that they might continue to chip away at the illusion of peace and happiness he wanted to preserve. 

Robert was not forced to bring in Ned as Hand - who wasn't a member of his own family. To demand that Viserys kill or severely punish his wife, daughter, brother or other close kin is too much. That would have undermined his rule, too, turning him into a tyrant or monster in the eye of the public. Not to mention that it wouldn't have helped resolve the issues at hand.

Bringing back Otto as Hand was certainly a big mistake - but perhaps only in hindsight. The way Otto is portrayed in the show makes it clear why Viserys may have thought he could trust the man. They were friends, Otto was his father-in-law, and he himself had originally pushed Viserys to make Rhaenyra the heir.

Robert also trusted his buddy Ned ... never expected the man to forge his last will and try to make Stannis king instead of Joffrey.

[csuszka1948]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:52 AM, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Anyone else love how much delicious irony is in Cersei’s story. She absolutely loathes Robert to her core and she thinks herself hot shit. But in reality she is just a female Robert. She is getting fatter, she is an alcoholic, she abuses women, and she is very fiscally irresponsible. It’s absolutely hilarious. 
 

She thought she was Tywin(who isn’t that smart IMO), but she is actually like Robert, and she is turning into Aerys.

 

I think it's important to note that  Cersei's journey is far from over: 

She was very idiotic in AFFC, but she might be able to recover from the humiliation and trauma she suffered and I expect her to be more mindful (even if in some ways more mad) in TWOW.

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, csuszka1948 said:

I think it's important to note that  Cersei's journey is far from over: 

She was very idiotic in AFFC, but she might be able to recover from the humiliation and trauma she suffered and I expect her to be more mindful (even if in some ways more mad) in TWOW.

Let's just watch her destroy Aegon and/or Daenerys against all odds, shall we?

[Hugorfonics]

50 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Let's just watch her destroy Aegon and/or Daenerys against all odds, shall we?

She beat JonA, Robert, Ned and Tyrion. Surely that changes the odds?

Dany I understand, armies of unsullied and dothraki, dragons, an impressive military career. Dany got it going on.

I never understood the deference for Aegon though. When have the Blackfyres ever succeed? Why should this Young Griff fair well when greater men like Robb Balon or Renly failed?

[sifth]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:52 AM, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Anyone else love how much delicious irony is in Cersei’s story. She absolutely loathes Robert to her core and she thinks herself hot shit. But in reality she is just a female Robert. She is getting fatter, she is an alcoholic, she abuses women, and she is very fiscally irresponsible. It’s absolutely hilarious. 
 

She thought she was Tywin(who isn’t that smart IMO), but she is actually like Robert, and she is turning into Aerys.

I recall Robert being a lot friendlier.

[Nevets]

4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

She beat JonA, Robert, Ned and Tyrion. Surely that changes the odds?

Dany I understand, armies of unsullied and dothraki, dragons, an impressive military career. Dany got it going on.

I never understood the deference for Aegon though. When have the Blackfyres ever succeed? Why should this Young Griff fair well when greater men like Robb Balon or Renly failed?

She didn't beat Jon Arryn or Tyrion.  Arryn was killed by Littlefinger with help from Lysa.  Cersei had nothing to do with it.  Tyrion was also Littlefinger's doing.  He was framed quite nicely.  Even without it, he might have been suspected in Joffrey's murder.  In any event, Tyrion is still around and could yet cause her trouble.

Robert she got lucky with on timing.  With Ned she got unexpected help, both from Littlefinger and from Ned making serious mistakes and underestimating her venality and depravity.

She's not nearly as good a plotter as she (and apparently you) thinks she is.  Between the Sand Snakes and Aegon, not to mention possibly Euron and Daenerys, she's going to have her hands full.

[Aebram]

4 hours ago, Nevets said:

Arryn was killed by Littlefinger with help from Lysa.  Cersei had nothing to do with it.

Didn't she? I've always assumed that she was the one who asked (ordered?) him to do it. Littlefinger had no other reason to want Arryn dead.

[Nevets]

38 minutes ago, Aebram said:

Didn't she? I've always assumed that she was the one who asked (ordered?) him to do it. Littlefinger had no other reason to want Arryn dead.

I think Lysa was the instigating factor.  She didn't want her son being shipped off to Stannis, and Littlefinger offered a solution.  Her message to Catelyn, actually Littlefinger's, ensured Ned would be Hand.  I don't know exactly why he wanted Ned, but he apparently did.  There's also the romantic connection to consider.  As for Cersei, it's clear on re-read that she is genuinely puzzled by Ned's accusation in the godswood.

[sifth]

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

 

Robert she got lucky with on timing.  With Ned she got unexpected help, both from Littlefinger and from Ned making serious mistakes and underestimating her venality and depravity.

 

Don't forget Sansa told her all of Ned's plans. She got lucky indeed, when it came to beating Ned.

[TheLastWolf]

On 5/27/2023 at 8:00 PM, astarkchoice said:

BUT he had a working relationship with bith brothers

She had one with one of her brothers at least 

Edited June 6, 2023 by TheLastWolf

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, Aebram said:

Didn't she? I've always assumed that she was the one who asked (ordered?) him to do it. Littlefinger had no other reason to want Arryn dead.

Nope its all LFs doing. Hes probably got a few good reasons 

- eventualy jons gonna work out theres something between him an lysa and if he does hes screwed.

-with such a young heir and wife infatuated with him he needs jon dead so that hes in a positiom where    then he only  needs a solid title to marry  her and secure the vale!!!!  (as we saw he did soooo fucking smoothly even when he was forced to kill her early) 

-he wants to see cat..for all his lies he genuinely belives she came to his injured semi drugged bed and rode him like a pony and told him she loved him etc this unrequitted  love seemingly  passes on to sansa whos supposed to look a little like young cat.

-he knows robert will choose ned , ned who he can  possibly manipulate due to his connection to cat (although he was probably hoping shed be more like a 2nd lysa) and how little he knows of court politics/life

- he wants a war to stir shit up , when the high lords play against each other he can strike deals . For all the talk of his treachery his deal on the table to ned was probably 100% genuine, when ned rejected it for honour he was a dead man...he pretty much  gave lf nothing back in return

-2 possible ' side bonus missions ' an honourable man like ned will dislike a snake like  varys on meeting ......if he can be neds 'friendly mentor ' in court and posion him vs the spider then maybe jsut maye the hand of the king will kill or dismiss his most dangerous rival in court

- ned is loved  by robert enough to stand up to roberts spending, now whether you feel lf is genunely generating more cash just by clever investing or borrowing or its a ponzi scheme whatver  its gotta be helpful to have someone cool off the states massive wasteful spending  before it gets to a point where  he cant provide enough liquid cash on demand  anymore

Edited June 6, 2023 by astarkchoice

[Hugorfonics]

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

She's not nearly as good a plotter as she (and apparently you) thinks she is

Shes not as good as she think she is sure. But, strike gold once that's luck. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is noteworthy. But after the fourth, that's a prospector. 

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Arryn was killed by Littlefinger with help from Lysa. 

"My father loved all his employees, but he especially loved the ones who ate shit without him knowing"

Pycelle coulda, shoulda, totally did not save JonA thanks to his loyalty to Cersei

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Tyrion was also Littlefinger's doing.  He was framed quite nicely.  Even without it, he might have been suspected in Joffrey's murder.  In any event, Tyrion is still around and could yet cause her trouble.

My giant of a Lannister, and the crowd goes fucking wild. Like JonA, the hands of fate brought about their doom, but boy did Cersei twist that knife. (And for sure, Imps still around which is like, thanks Jaime. Oh what a betrayal! And then he killed their dad, I'm like scared for the kingslayer if she ever finds out)

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Robert she got lucky with on timing. 

She's married to the fella, she had all the time in the world. A tourny or a hunt are noteworthy events but I'd hardly call them a rarity. It's more like what time isn't it advised to kill Robert.

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

With Ned she got unexpected help, both from Littlefinger and from Ned making serious mistakes and underestimating her venality and depravity.

Yea he like kinda begged to get his head chopped off. Which like, I understand why you don't think that's a huge deal, she ripped a piece of paper. Marvelous. And yet, just look at the track record, she's undefeated. So yes we can make fun of Ned and his suicidal tendencies but we should still give respect where respect is due

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Between the Sand Snakes and Aegon, not to mention possibly Euron and Daenerys, she's going to have her hands full.

Aegons a joke, dudes gonna have like three more pages of screen time, the Martell's on the other hand will probably have just as much luck as the Tyrells did at defeating Cersei. Euron and Dany seem tough, but again so is Cersei.

(I don't think she's like omnipotent or anything, just greater then these lesser beasts. But I'm sure the younger more beautiful Sansa will come and take everything she holds dear, so it'll be a hoot!)

[Nevets]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Shes not as good as she think she is sure. But, strike gold once that's luck. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is noteworthy. But after the fourth, that's a prospector. 

"My father loved all his employees, but he especially loved the ones who ate shit without him knowing"

Pycelle coulda, shoulda, totally did not save JonA thanks to his loyalty to Cersei

My giant of a Lannister, and the crowd goes fucking wild. Like JonA, the hands of fate brought about their doom, but boy did Cersei twist that knife. (And for sure, Imps still around which is like, thanks Jaime. Oh what a betrayal! And then he killed their dad, I'm like scared for the kingslayer if she ever finds out)

She's married to the fella, she had all the time in the world. A tourny or a hunt are noteworthy events but I'd hardly call them a rarity. It's more like what time isn't it advised to kill Robert.

Yea he like kinda begged to get his head chopped off. Which like, I understand why you don't think that's a huge deal, she ripped a piece of paper. Marvelous. And yet, just look at the track record, she's undefeated. So yes we can make fun of Ned and his suicidal tendencies but we should still give respect where respect is due

Aegons a joke, dudes gonna have like three more pages of screen time, the Martell's on the other hand will probably have just as much luck as the Tyrells did at defeating Cersei. Euron and Dany seem tough, but again so is Cersei.

(I don't think she's like omnipotent or anything, just greater then these lesser beasts. But I'm sure the younger more beautiful Sansa will come and take everything she holds dear, so it'll be a hoot!)

I give credit where credit is due.  I just don't believe Cersei deserves much credit.  Her venality has been accompanied by astonishingly good luck.  Until now.

For what it's worth, I think Margaery is the younger more beautiful [queen].  Cersei believes she's the one, and is attacking her to try and prevent the prophecy from coming true.  

Margaery will therefore take her down in self-defense, therefore fulfilling the prophecy.  It's self-fulfilling.  Margaery has already taken Joffrey and Tommen from her, through assassination and affection, respectively.  Her children and her power are, I believe, what she holds dearest.