Football: The odds are not even

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Meanwhile, finally 1-1. That should hopefully be curtains.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3-1 Stuttgart. Thank you. 

[The Sunland Lord]

1 hour ago, Daemon the Leaner said:

Just like Lewandowski, Zlatan have always been accused of not being very good in the big, decisive games and I'm not sure Ronaldo and Messi not being there would have changed that (he even once played with Messi IIRC)

also, playing for Sweden is no boost in the race for a Ballon d'or

Not having a CL trophy to his name didn't help either, despite playing in very good teams.

[polishgenius]

Don't think Zlatan's Ballon d'Or record is surprising. He was excellent, don't get me wrong. But apart from when he was in France, he was rarely uncontestedly the best player in his league, let alone the world. And when he was in France, well, he was in France. That's where he really built up his big public image, but he was never going to compete for it from there.

 

 

To some extent his lack of goalscoring consistency does speak to his credit, that he was willing to play the creator to someone else's goalscorer (which is also why he's aged much more gracefully than the other egotists of this era), but there is still an element of inconsistency- in a different way and a much lesser extent, but he had a version of the Dybala problem, where he's neither a proper 10 or a traditional 9 and that sometimes made it hard for his teams to use him properly. Albeit unlike Dybala he would, when that happened, just muck in and do what he could where the team needed till the opportunity came up again to give it the full Zlatan.

[baxus]

12 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Well, Shevchenko won it once, and I don't think Ibra was any worse than Sheva. Individually at least. But one of them was the CF at a European Powerhouse. 

You are aware that Zlatan was a CF at Juve, Inter, Milan AND Barca? And we're talking Juve, Inter and Milan back in the day when Serie A actually meant something (though it's obviously not the same Milan as Shevchenko's).

Don't forget, Barca gave Eto'o+20M to Inter in exchange for Zlatan, and in the following season Inter won the CL, along the way knocking out Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Zlatan etc.

How much more of a European Powerhouse did he need?

[Darryk]

Ange is a risky appointment, but I do like his personality and his philosophy. I hope he's a success, for his sake as well as ours.

 

First Australian manager in the premier league I believe, and maybe the first of Greek descent as well?

Edited June 6, 2023 by Darryk

[Spockydog]

I am sure he will be just as successful as all the other Old Firm managers who have moved to the Premier League.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Spockydog

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, baxus said:

You are aware that Zlatan was a CF at Juve, Inter, Milan AND Barca? And we're talking Juve, Inter and Milan back in the day when Serie A actually meant something (though it's obviously not the same Milan as Shevchenko's).

Don't forget, Barca gave Eto'o+20M to Inter in exchange for Zlatan, and in the following season Inter won the CL, along the way knocking out Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Zlatan etc.

How much more of a European Powerhouse did he need?

Juve was his first stop after he left Ajax and he played there for two years. He was in his early twenties then. At some point Capello shifted him to the wing during his second year, which increased his assist rate, but diminished his goal output. Then came calciopoli. Juve was demoted, and he left after two years.

Next stop Inter. His first year there was meh. Not great, not horrible. Starting his second year a seemingly more settled Zlatan started bossing the league. CL saw the emergence of Guardiola's Barca juggernaut. So that was the place to be.

Next stop Barca (2009), with Zlatan in what should (have) be(en) his prime years. Guardiola and Zlatan didn't mix. He saw not enough game time (for his liking) and only had (has?) a few choice words to spare for Guardiola after that. That failed experiment was ended after one season.

Next stop AC Milan (2010). He decided a move back to Italy was preferably to a move to City. Serie A itself was at that point mostly living on past glories. Still a good league, but not the strongest league with the best teams anymore. He stayed for two years and when the writing on the proverbial wall became more obvious, he moved to PSG. 

PSG (2012). Still in a good footballing age (30/31) he left the declining Serie A for the French farmer's league. Lucrative deal, but pretty much giving up on the CL and any Ballon d'Or hopes.

Post PSG we had old man Zlatan on his farewell tour with stops in Manchester, LA and again Milan.

 

[The Sunland Lord]

I've read some Saudi clubs will try to sign Kanté and Son. 

[Spockydog]

Sheikh Chop 'Em Up has just taken control of the four biggest teams in Saudi. They are now going to try and tempt a whole bunch of top players to go and play in their dogshit league. Like China did. 

[The Sunland Lord]

1 hour ago, Darryk said:

First Australian manager in the premier league I believe, and maybe the first of Greek descent as well?

Yes.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Makes sense for Kante, who looks about done at this point with his injuries. 

So a last cash grab in the middle east might sound appealing at this later stage of his career.

Son still has some years of football left in him.

[The Sunland Lord]

Antony accused of domestic violence by ex-girlfriend.

 

[The Sunland Lord]

 

[Iskaral Pust]

8 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Sheikh Chop 'Em Up has just taken control of the four biggest teams in Saudi. They are now going to try and tempt a whole bunch of top players to go and play in their dogshit league. Like China did. 

 

7 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Makes sense for Kante, who looks about done at this point with his injuries. 

So a last cash grab in the middle east might sound appealing at this later stage of his career.

Son still has some years of football left in him.

It is ridiculous but at least it’s a kind of low value redistribution out of corrupt regimes.  I prefer them throwing money at footballers rather than corrupt politicians in our countries.  (Although I expect they’re doing both)

[Raja]

Will not pretend to have seen a lot of Postecoglou's teams, but everything I've read about him seems to suggest that he improves every team he's managed and done an excellent job with celtic

I think it's a good move for spurs after 3 generally terrible appointments ( Nuno, Mourinho, conte)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

He ain't worth that much. Holy sports washing...

 

[baxus]

17 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Next stop Barca (2009), with Zlatan in what should (have) be(en) his prime years. Guardiola and Zlatan didn't mix. He saw not enough game time (for his liking) and only had (has?) a few choice words to spare for Guardiola after that. That failed experiment was ended after one season.

And whose fault is that? Should a player adapt to one of the greatest teams in history or should the whole team adapt to one player?

[The Sunland Lord]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:13 AM, baxus said:

You are aware that Zlatan was a CF at Juve, Inter, Milan AND Barca? And we're talking Juve, Inter and Milan back in the day when Serie A actually meant something (though it's obviously not the same Milan as Shevchenko's).

Don't forget, Barca gave Eto'o+20M to Inter in exchange for Zlatan, and in the following season Inter won the CL, along the way knocking out Barca with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Zlatan etc.

How much more of a European Powerhouse did he need?

Not only that but Barcelona won the CL again a year after he left. I think he dislikes Inter & Pep for this alone. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by The Sunland Lord

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

And whose fault is that? Should a player adapt to one of the greatest teams in history or should the whole team adapt to one player?

 

In fairness like, he mostly played just fine in that season. He just complained. Which, sure, you can dig him out for, it's not team-centric, especially reaming Pep out in front of the team, if that happened. But his complaint more than anything else was that he'd been bought to play one role then was shunted into another when Messi complained about it, and he didn't think there was much point using him that way. But he did it. We mostly found out about his problems with it after the season finished, it wasn't a Ronaldo refusing to come off the bench situation. 

 

 

I know there's a lot of doubt about whether that Messi story is true, but tbh I was always inclined to believe something like it, just because even before Zlatan told it I'd been of the opinion that, in those days, Messi tended to chase the ball even if holding position and letting the others do their job would have been the better move. He was so good on it it barely mattered (and let's be clear, centering Messi rather than Zlatan was in the long run obviously the right decision), but he was reluctant to let moves develop without him in his early days. My guess would be Zlatan did embellish just how childish Messi was about it, but I can totally see Messi being unhappy being moved out wider to acommodate Zlatan, and Pep responding. I mean, iirc, the evidence of the team shape throughout the season doesn't not support it. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by polishgenius