UnJon: The Return of the King

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

So I think most people can agree, that when Jon is resurrected, he will come back a darker version of himself. At least those of us not in denial that he could still be alive. I’m of the mindset Jon likely won’t return to action until after Stannis is killed. Jon’s forces will consist of the Wildings, maybe some of the NW, and I think what remains of Stannis’ forces will follow Jon. When Jon brings this army south I imagine the Northern lords remaining loyal to the Starks will join him. Or at least they’ll bring an army to join his under the auspices of Rickon returned from Skagos.

 

With the wildlings, skagosi, northerns, and Stannis’ men I imagine they will strive to root the Boltons out. Whether it’s Roose & Ramsay, or just Ramsay. I think UnJon will run the Bolton loyalists through the meat grinder. Jon will represent Cold Practicality whilst his parallel, Dany, will represent Burning Idealism.

Both of them are heading into their dark arcs IMO. Jon will savagely and justifiably annihilate the Boltons and their loyalists, whilst Daenerys will finally unleash her dragons, likely on Volantis. 
 

The time of justice is nigh, let the unjust fall and die where they may!

[Aerodimas]

On the topic, @Lady Stonehearts Simp whats you'r opinion about the theory that Jon did not die?

UnJon would be much darker (the tipe of man Dany likes)but, both of them are infertile. 

[Springwatch]

3 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Jon will represent Cold Practicality whilst his parallel, Dany, will represent Burning Idealism.

That's very good, I like that.

Expect a long period before resurrection though - Jon has unfinished business with the wights; he wanted to understand them, he wanted to learn from the dead. So I guess he will.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

8 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

That's very good, I like that.

Expect a long period before resurrection though - Jon has unfinished business with the wights; he wanted to understand them, he wanted to learn from the dead. So I guess he will.

Resurrected Jon will still retain his old goal of fighting the Others. But his way about it will change. I honestly think he may pursue Winterfell. Especially if Robb’s Will makes it to the Wall finally. He may pursue it because 

A: Deep down it’s what he has always wanted, and he might feel it rightfully belongs to him now.

B: He wouldn’t have to worry about the psychotic Bolton’s coming to fuck everything up.

C: He’ll have far more authority and power to organize resistance against the Others. 
 

Once Daenerys comes, I imagine Jon may reach out to her for aid. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 hours ago, Aerodimas said:

On the topic, @Lady Stonehearts Simp whats you'r opinion about the theory that Jon did not die?

UnJon would be much darker (the tipe of man Dany likes)but, both of them are infertile. 

Jon. Is dead, no doubt in my mind. The location of his wound and the amount of blood is fatal. I also think Beric, Gregor, and Catelyn’s resurrections were meant to prepare us for Jon’s. We see that it changes them. Gregor not so much, it’s hard to get lower than rock bottom. But hey perhaps GRRM is giving Gregor a shovel? 
 

Jon & Dany are parallels with each other. To the point that anyone with a shred of literacy knows they are destined to meet. Both of them being infertile claimants to the throne after major magical phenomena (The Pyre and Return from the Dead) is just another parallel.

[Hugorfonics]

14 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Resurrected Jon will still retain his old goal of fighting the Others. But his way about it will change. I honestly think he may pursue Winterfell. Especially if Robb’s Will makes it to the Wall finally. He may pursue it because 

A: Deep down it’s what he has always wanted, and he might feel it rightfully belongs to him now.

B: He wouldn’t have to worry about the psychotic Bolton’s coming to fuck everything up.

C: He’ll have far more authority and power to organize resistance against the Others. 
 

Once Daenerys comes, I imagine Jon may reach out to her for aid. 

Yea they could do good, only problem is, that's Sansas house lol.

I kinda see a dance of direwolves shindig, for if Jons resurrection will teach him anything it's that even his brothers are capable of killing him. I don't think it'll be a clear cut Robbs will says I'm the boss (underlined or crossed out?) so thanks for nothing little sis but more through confusion like Alayne Stone is not my sister's name/ Jon's dead therefore this guy can't be Jon. Then Cats as mad as ever but with Robbs crown and Rickon is being looked after by the highlords with their own agenda meanwhile the one on the piece of paper is actually Arya who either looks a bit too much like Jeyne Poole or can in fact look like literally anybody. So, plenty of fighting and confusion to come around.

As far as the Boltons, I'm pretty sure they're gonna self destruct. Stannis I'm not so sure about, I kinda actually see him bending his knee when the king returns 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea they could do good, only problem is, that's Sansas house lol.

I kinda see a dance of direwolves shindig, for if Jons resurrection will teach him anything it's that even his brothers are capable of killing him. I don't think it'll be a clear cut Robbs will says I'm the boss (underlined or crossed out?) so thanks for nothing little sis but more through confusion like Alayne Stone is not my sister's name/ Jon's dead therefore this guy can't be Jon. Then Cats as mad as ever but with Robbs crown and Rickon is being looked after by the highlords with their own agenda meanwhile the one on the piece of paper is actually Arya who either looks a bit too much like Jeyne Poole or can in fact look like literally anybody. So, plenty of fighting and confusion to come around.

As far as the Boltons, I'm pretty sure they're gonna self destruct. Stannis I'm not so sure about, I kinda actually see him bending his knee when the king returns 

First off, no one knows Sansa is alive in the North. Secondly, Sansa probably wouldn’t hear anything about it until it’s already in motion or over. And that’s not including if she’d be in a position to do anything about it.

if there is a Dance of the Direwolves situation it’ll be between Jon and Rickon. And I don’t believe Jon would have fallen so far as to harm Rickon. Worst case scenario the Manderly’s and Skagosi may want to put Rickon in Winterfell as a puppet. That may happen. But I don’t think it will, there is so little time left in just 2 books for it to be a long drawn out conflict. Either Rickon’s loyalists will favor Jon once he makes a claim or hear Robb’s Will. Or Rickon is already dead or will die on Skagos.

[Hugorfonics]

1 minute ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

First off, no one knows Sansa is alive in the North

They'll learn 

2 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Secondly, Sansa probably wouldn’t hear anything about it until it’s already in motion or over. And that’s not including if she’d be in a position to do anything about it.

She gets the news. Every Friday night, at Mya Stone o clock. 

The plan is to hitch up with Harry boy and get his army of knights to rewrite Westeros. She's getting ready to position herself to do anything about everything. I've always thought of her as the main character, at the very least her carbon footprint moves mountains, far more then any character in asoiaf. And since she's referenced as The North, I see her going back home before returning to KL to defeat Cersei.

8 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

if there is a Dance of the Direwolves situation it’ll be between Jon and Rickon. And I don’t believe Jon would have fallen so far as to harm Rickon. Worst case scenario the Manderly’s and Skagosi may want to put Rickon in Winterfell as a puppet. That may happen. But I don’t think it will, there is so little time left in just 2 books for it to be a long drawn out conflict. Either Rickon’s loyalists will favor Jon once he makes a claim or hear Robb’s Will. Or Rickon is already dead or will die on Skagos.

So it'll be three books lol. Asoiaf isnt rushed so I don't see him changing his style, but who knows. I do think it likely that Rickon will be used nefariously but I think Bran and the extended family of Theon and Tyrion will calm everyones nerves so it'll be a little dance, not a deadly one

[kissdbyfire]

42 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Jon. Is dead, no doubt in my mind. The location of his wound and the amount of blood is fatal.

I’m assuming that by wound and what amount of blood you mean the neck wound? It means nothing. I make mine MP’s words: “it’s just a flesh wound!”

ps: only in Jon’s case it actually is. 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[LongRider]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m assuming that by wound and what amount of blood you mean the neck wound? It means nothing. I make mine MP’s words: “it’s just a flesh wound!”

ps: only in Jon’s case it actually is. 

Jon's only bleeding wound mentioned is not a big deal.  Also, zombie Jon having such a great afterlife career as commander of the living and the dead, and he gets the girl queen dragon rider?  Yawn, so boring and done to ah......you know.  Death.

I can see the living Jon heading into a dark arc after all this, no problem with that.  

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

11 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Jon's only bleeding wound mentioned is not a big deal.  Also, zombie Jon having such a great afterlife career as commander of the living and the dead, and he gets the girl queen dragon rider?  Yawn, so boring and done to ah......you know.  Death.

I can see the living Jon heading into a dark arc after all this, no problem with that.  

If something being at all expected is enough for you to consider it boring, and that dodging expectations is that important then you must love the abomination’s ending

[sifth]

I doubt he's coming back as a wight, if that is indeed what the OP is getting at. I think Jon being in a coma, similar to Bran in the first book, is more likely. Probably a near death experience is a requirement, to help awaken his third eye.

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

If something being at all expected is enough for you to consider it boring, and that dodging expectations is that important then you must love the abomination’s ending

Actually, I quit watching the abomination during the 4th season as it was such shit.  So no, I have not seen that ending.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

8 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Actually, I quit watching the abomination during the 4th season as it was such shit.  So no, I have not seen that ending.

I thought Season 4 was good. Prime television. 5 is where it fell off for me. 6 being where HBO clubbed it to death like a disabled baby seal.

[Aerodimas]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea they could do good, only problem is, that's Sansas house lol.

I kinda see a dance of direwolves shindig, for if Jons resurrection will teach him anything it's that even his brothers are capable of killing him. I don't think it'll be a clear cut Robbs will says I'm the boss (underlined or crossed out?) so thanks for nothing little sis but more through confusion like Alayne Stone is not my sister's name/ Jon's dead therefore this guy can't be Jon. Then Cats as mad as ever but with Robbs crown and Rickon is being looked after by the highlords with their own agenda meanwhile the one on the piece of paper is actually Arya who either looks a bit too much like Jeyne Poole or can in fact look like literally anybody. So, plenty of fighting and confusion to come around.

As far as the Boltons, I'm pretty sure they're gonna self destruct. Stannis I'm not so sure about, I kinda actually see him bending his knee when the king returns 

Stark civil war. I don't know if it sounds fun or depresing.

 

[Springwatch]

14 hours ago, LongRider said:

Also, zombie Jon having such a great afterlife career as commander of the living and the dead, and he gets the girl queen dragon rider?  Yawn, so boring and done to ah......you know.  Death.

Could still happen. There's a love-and-hate-can-mate motif going begging for a resolution. Although I can't see a happy-ever-after for the pair of them.

[Hugorfonics]

8 hours ago, Aerodimas said:

Stark civil war. I don't know if it sounds fun or depresing.

 

But it sounds exciting! Why should Lannister have all the adventures? (Or Greyjoy, or Martell, Baratheons, Clegane...) 

Again I don't think it'll get pushed to that limit but like, I think close. The Jon vs Cat was heavy in agot but it's been sprinkled out since, then there's the girls who also have an antagonistic relationship. So I think through their backstory and through the future of confusion, yea we'll see some war of northern aggression, and it'll be fun and depressing!

[Aerodimas]

53 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But it sounds exciting! Why should Lannister have all the adventures? (Or Greyjoy, or Martell, Baratheons, Clegane...) 

Again I don't think it'll get pushed to that limit but like, I think close. The Jon vs Cat was heavy in agot but it's been sprinkled out since, then there's the girls who also have an antagonistic relationship. So I think through their backstory and through the future of confusion, yea we'll see some war of northern aggression, and it'll be fun and depressing!

If Eliot Carver sais it, it must be true  .

I'm guessing the sides would be Stonehard and Sansa vs Arya and Jon?. I'm curious, were would you put Rickon and Bran?

Edited June 1, 2023 by Aerodimas

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Aerodimas said:

If Eliot Carver sais it, it must be true  .

Lol dangerous thinking 

1 hour ago, Aerodimas said:

I'm guessing the sides would be Stonehard and Sansa vs Arya and Jon?. I'm curious, were would you put Rickon and Bran?

I don't think anything so cut and dry, although Cat serving as an advisor for Sansa sounds awesome. I think it'll be more like every man for themselves. But through confusion, Alayne vs fArya for instance or the supposed reanimated corpse of Jon calling himself a Stark or even a Targaryen sounds an awful lot like whatever shenanigans Young Griff is trying to pull.

Rickon has the worst claim but a direwolf which is more then nearly anyone can say, also while I don't see Sansa choosing to attack Stark (or Jon or Arya or Cat), Rickon is barely a child and will probably be used by Wyman or Davos who have their own aspirations. 

Bran will probably be the voice of reason, with his god like powers and his prophet the foster brother calming everyone down

[LongRider]

So, what would happen if Jon were dead?  Well, remember all that huffing and puffing about how Jon broke his vows?  Even if reanimated he's still dead and so, he's released from his NW vows.  Not only that, but why should he fight the fights of living men?  Especially those of the NW as traitors of the NW killed him.  Might be a bit pissed about that.  Also, why would any wildings follow a dead man?  There have been many wildings killed by dead men, and they know they are a threat.  

He gets reanimated, looks around, sez Oh Hell NO! and bugs out, crosses the Wall and heads North. The dead are his people now.  No fighting the good fight, no fight for WF.  He's not Beric after all.  Beric was killed fighting on orders from Ned to kill Gregor and his men to protect the small folk.  Jon was brutally stabbed by his own men, and he owes them nothing. 

If zombie Jon leads an army, it's an army of the dead.  They are coming for you.