Schrodinger’s Sara Snow?

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

Do you think the show will have her exist? Do you think the show will go the fanfic direction of a true romance between her and Jace? Or Cregan and Jace?

 

I just don’t understand how he could’ve formed a particularly strong bond with either of them in, what, 2 weeks? 3 max? But I could totally see a moment of grief and being comforted by Sara.

[SilverGhost]

If she exists its merely to convey that the Starks are aware (well were aware at that point in history) of Aegon's dream and that is why they bent the knee. She might try and hook up with him in order to unite their bloodlines to be the bond that will defeat the others -- he agrees to get his mother to break his betrothal or do it when he is king - but then ends up dead and that promise is lost in the sappy love songs that bard compose about the pair. 

[Hippocras]

I think it kind of depends on George. If George has a plan for Sara Snow and Jace  impacting the eventual bloodlines then she will be included.

I do sometimes wonder about her, if amazingly she turned out to be real (how would Mushroom know?). But if real and she had Jace's child, that would be the only descendent of Rhaenyra who was not ALSO descended from Daemon and that seems important. Furthermore it might add a bit of an extra complexity to Black Aly and Cregan's eventual relationship. Alysanne and Cregan's first daughter was named Sarra. If we consider that Sara Snow may have died in childbirth if she did exist, and that both the Blackwoods and Starks fought for Rhaenyra and had an interest, after the Dance, in maintaining the peace and protecting any child of Jace and Sara, then it seems at least possible that Alysanne and Cregan passed off this girl as their own daughter. Which would certainly be interesting!

[Annara Snow]

On 6/1/2023 at 3:04 AM, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Do you think the show will have her exist? Do you think the show will go the fanfic direction of a true romance between her and Jace? Or Cregan and Jace?

 

I just don’t understand how he could’ve formed a particularly strong bond with either of them in, what, 2 weeks? 3 max? But I could totally see a moment of grief and being comforted by Sara.

1) yes

2) not really, because there isn't enough time and Mushroom's story is cheesy. (And would also be a bit repetitive considering Aemond's storyline later on) But there will be an attraction and, more importantly, bond: Jace has massive issues about being a "secret" (but not really secret) bastard, to the point he goes into otherwise uncharacteristic violent rage whenever someone teases him about it. Meeting  someone who is openly a bastard but loved and respected by their family anyway and who doesn't have issues with who they are, it would help bring about Jace's character development, leading to him later going, you know what? Bastards are not inherently inferior or bad and mom, we both know Targaryen bastards can ride dragons, so let's go for it! 

In terms of romance, I think there will probably be just enough for Jace to start questioning his betrothal to Baela, and we might at the same time see first signs of attraction between Baela and Alyn.

3) No. Straight up fanfic territory (and the beloved ship of hypocritical fans who rant against Jace/Sara because "it would be cheating on Baela" but then turn around and act like cheating with a man doesn't count, because they fetishise m/m relationships and don't take them seriously). Cregan isn't a bastard and can't play Sara's role in Jace's development. And there's nothing to suggest love or bromance with Jace was Cregan's big motivation. He negotiated a royal marriage for the Starks, probably also thought it's honorable to stick to the vow his father to Rhaenyra, and took his time to go south, preparing for the winter snd putting the North's interests first (as he should). Notice how everything is perfectly explainable without needing any strong feelings for Jace as Cregan's motivation? He is no JonCon or Loras, obsessing over  a dead guy 

[Lord Varys]

With the amount of episodes we have right now, it would be insane to bother with a footnote character like Sara Snow.

She could be there ... but giving her plot relevance if Cregan Stark himself might only be in 1-2 episodes is increasingly unlikely.

Even more so since Jace and Baela seem to be an important thing in the show. And my guess would be that Baela might get a posthumous daughter who is going to end up with Cregan's son ... for GoT-relevant prophecy reasons (Arya).

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

1) yes

2) not really, because there isn't enough time and Mushroom's story is cheesy. (And would also be a bit repetitive considering Aemond's storyline later on) But there will be an attraction and, more importantly, bond: Jace has massive issues about being a "secret" (but not really secret) bastard, to the point he goes into otherwise uncharacteristic violent rage whenever someone teases him about it. Meeting  someone who is openly a bastard but loved and respected by their family anyway and who doesn't have issues with who they are, it would help bring about Jace's character development, leading to him later going, you know what? Bastards are not inherently inferior or bad and mom, we both know Targaryen bastards can ride dragons, so let's go for it! 

In terms of romance, I think there will probably be just enough for Jace to start questioning his betrothal to Baela, and we might at the same time see first signs of attraction between Baela and Alyn.

3) No. Straight up fanfic territory (and the beloved ship of hypocritical fans who rant against Jace/Sara because "it would be cheating on Baela" but then turn around and act like cheating with a man doesn't count, because they fetishise m/m relationships and don't take them seriously). Cregan isn't a bastard and can't play Sara's role in Jace's development. And there's nothing to suggest love or bromance with Jace was Cregan's big motivation. He negotiated a royal marriage for the Starks, probably also thought it's honorable to stick to the vow his father to Rhaenyra, and took his time to go south, preparing for the winter snd putting the North's interests first (as he should). Notice how everything is perfectly explainable without needing any strong feelings for Jace as Cregan's motivation? He is no JonCon or Loras, obsessing over  a dead guy 

I have never even considered their shared experience of being bastards

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

With the amount of episodes we have right now, it would be insane to bother with a footnote character like Sara Snow.

She could be there ... but giving her plot relevance if Cregan Stark himself might only be in 1-2 episodes is increasingly unlikely.

Even more so since Jace and Baela seem to be an important thing in the show. And my guess would be that Baela might get a posthumous daughter who is going to end up with Cregan's son ... for GoT-relevant prophecy reasons (Arya).

According to leaks that may not be true they may have Cregan marching south with Roddy

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

According to leaks that may not be true they may have Cregan marching south with Roddy

Still a tertiary character then.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

45 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Still a tertiary character then.

Her main purpose would be to solidify Cregan to The Blacks and add depth to Jace’s shallow character 

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

Her main purpose would be to solidify Cregan to The Blacks and add depth to Jace’s shallow character 

There are other ways to do that. Obviously Cregan and Jace will talk about the Song of Ice and Fire during their negotiation ... and Cregan will declare for Rhaenyra because of his conviction that Rhaenyra and Jace know about and care about the threat of the Others.

Jace can have other things to do later on - with Baela, his mother, his younger brothers, even Daemon and Corlys and the Hull guys. No need for Sara.

They could still have her but it feels as if there is not enough time to make something meaningful of this plot germ.

[Annara Snow]

20 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

According to leaks that may not be true they may have Cregan marching south with Roddy

No one even knows who they have cast as Cregan, so there's zero chance anyone can "leak" such a thing.

I'm guessing it's more fake leaks, like the ones from that Reddit guy. If it's not reported by Redanian Intelligence and doesn't come directly from set photos and videos, it's 99% certain to be fake 

Edited June 11 by Annara Snow

[Lord Varys]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:29 PM, Annara Snow said:

Jace has massive issues about being a "secret" (but not really secret) bastard, to the point he goes into otherwise uncharacteristic violent rage whenever someone teases him about it. Meeting  someone who is openly a bastard but loved and respected by their family anyway and who doesn't have issues with who they are, it would help bring about Jace's character development, leading to him later going, you know what? Bastards are not inherently inferior or bad and mom, we both know Targaryen bastards can ride dragons, so let's go for it!

Jace doesn't have issues with being not loved. He is clearly loved by all his family aside from Alicent and her brats (Helaena and Daeron excluded, so far). The reason they don't broadcast his true parentage is because that would cause inheritance issues - and more with Driftmark than the Iron Throne, actually.

Sara Snow can be loved all day long by her Stark kin - it doesn't make her a Stark and doesn't give her inheritance rights. Rights Jacaerys Velaryon actually does possess. The idea that the dynamics in Winterfell would be different is quite unlikely in that context - there are Starks and there are Snows there, and being a Snow sucks.

(It also sucks being a Sand, by the way. Oberyn not marrying Ellaria and having her pop out bastard after bastard is silly. They have no claims, and will always be dependent on the charity of their Martell cousins if they want to live a princely life. Even if Oberyn and Ellaria had good personal reasons not to marry - it does suck for their children. Not to mention that both Ellaria and Daemon Sand show that no Martell does actually really consider marrying a fucking bastard - Arianne makes it clear that the very notion is ludicrous.)

Also, if they want to explore bastard issues of the time you suggest - then the obvious characters to use for this are the Hull boys. If Jace feels he and Joff should view themselves more as Strongs than Velaryons then the best way to explore this wouldn't be some weird romance with a featured extra but him connecting and interacting with Addam and Alyn. In fact, if the show goes with Jace pushing his mother to legitimize the Hull boy then his reasoning there could be to kind of make up for the Harwin thing and restoring Driftmark to (more) proper Velaryon heirs.

It would feel completely weird to explore this thing with some Stark bastard. If Jace were to actually spend meaningful time and had a proper plot with the Starks this could make sense ... but the show clearly doesn't bother.

Edited June 14 by Lord Varys

[KingStoneheart]

On 6/11/2023 at 3:08 PM, Annara Snow said:

No one even knows who they have cast as Cregan, so there's zero chance anyone can "leak" such a thing.

You may be right there, there may be no legitimate leak but my thoughts would be that Cregan marches south with Roddy or replaces him entirely. Cregan has a big part to play in the coming seasons, so to cast him for such a small role this season to interact with Jace at Winterfell and then also keep him loyal enough to return would be challenging. So my thoughts would be to give him a bigger role throughout Season 2 and almost merge his relevance alongside Roddy.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

15 hours ago, KingStoneheart said:

You may be right there, there may be no legitimate leak but my thoughts would be that Cregan marches south with Roddy or replaces him entirely. Cregan has a big part to play in the coming seasons, so to cast him for such a small role this season to interact with Jace at Winterfell and then also keep him loyal enough to return would be challenging. So my thoughts would be to give him a bigger role throughout Season 2 and almost merge his relevance alongside Roddy.

I almost kind of prefer if they merge Cregan and Roddy. I think it’d be better for less fanatical fans of the series. Having a Stark with such a major role.

and honestly it’d be cathartic to see a Stark kick so much ass

[Lord Varys]

12 hours ago, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd said:

I almost kind of prefer if they merge Cregan and Roddy. I think it’d be better for less fanatical fans of the series. Having a Stark with such a major role.

and honestly it’d be cathartic to see a Stark kick so much ass

Hopefully not. No need for that, since HotD is clearly and obviously not a show about the Starks.

They could extend Cregan's role by have him join Rhaenyra in KL in addition to or in place of one of the Manderly brothers. Then we would have him going back home to raise a new army while Rhaenyra returns to Dragonstone. That could work easily enough. But Roddy the Ruin is an old guy, not young Cregan Stark.

One could make Roddy some other aged Stark uncle ... but even that makes little sense. Why not keep the character as he is. He is a cool Northman, too, doesn't have to be a Stark.

[Hippocras]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:35 PM, Lord Varys said:

Hopefully not. No need for that, since HotD is clearly and obviously not a show about the Starks.

They could extend Cregan's role by have him join Rhaenyra in KL in addition to or in place of one of the Manderly brothers. Then we would have him going back home to raise a new army while Rhaenyra returns to Dragonstone. That could work easily enough. But Roddy the Ruin is an old guy, not young Cregan Stark.

One could make Roddy some other aged Stark uncle ... but even that makes little sense. Why not keep the character as he is. He is a cool Northman, too, doesn't have to be a Stark.

Also it depends where they want to end the story. As I think Cregan and Black Aly would make great TV, my vote is for not too early in the story, in which case clearly Cregan needs to be a young guy.

[Annara Snow]

2 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Also it depends where they want to end the story. As I think Cregan and Black Aly would make great TV, my vote is for not too early in the story, in which case clearly Cregan needs to be a young guy.

Cregan already is a young guy. That's not up for debate or change.

"He is closer to your age than to mine" says 30-something Rhaenyra to her 16 year old son.

[Hippocras]

4 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Cregan already is a young guy. That's not up for debate or change.

"He is closer to your age than to mine" says 30-something Rhaenyra to her 16 year old son.

My post was a response to a chain of posts, one of which suggested merging Cregan with a character who is certainly old and needs to be old to play the part.

[Annara Snow]

Just now, Hippocras said:

My post was a response to a chain of posts, one of which suggested merging Cregan with a character who is certainly old and needs to be old to play the part.

Which I think wouldn't be a good idea, but I don't really understand what you meant by "Also it depends where they want to end the story. As I think Cregan and Black Aly would make great TV, my vote is for not too early in the story, in which case clearly Cregan needs to be a young guy." What does his age on the show have to do with where they end the story?

[Hippocras]

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

Which I think wouldn't be a good idea, but I don't really understand what you meant by "Also it depends where they want to end the story. As I think Cregan and Black Aly would make great TV, my vote is for not too early in the story, in which case clearly Cregan needs to be a young guy." What does his age on the show have to do with where they end the story?

Someone suggested merging Cregan's role with that of a much older character. Cregan's role in the story they are telling in House of the Dragon really picks up in particular AFTER the war is over. So if the show ends near the very end of the war, with very little of the aftermath, then Cregan's importance in the telling of the story is reduced. Starts to matter less what age he is.