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Why did the First Men migrate to Westeros?


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I’ve always thought the timelines were given had to be wrong. Like a great game of Telephone, eventually overtime information is distorted. Even timelines. I personally think the First Men migrated from the Great Empire of Dawn AFTER the Long Night. Or perhaps after A Long Night. Perhaps the Long Night of Westeros’ history is a separate event from the one in Essos.

It could also be that they were fleeing the Ghiscari or some other empire in costing before the Valyrians.

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43 minutes ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

I’ve always thought the timelines were given had to be wrong. Like a great game of Telephone, eventually overtime information is distorted. Even timelines. I personally think the First Men migrated from the Great Empire of Dawn AFTER the Long Night. Or perhaps after A Long Night. Perhaps the Long Night of Westeros’ history is a separate event from the one in Essos.

It could also be that they were fleeing the Ghiscari or some other empire in costing before the Valyrians.

Assuming there is one global Long Night event based on the similar myths from different cultures, either:

  • The First Men were in Westeros before the Blood Betrayal so the migration was not caused due to the fall of the Great Empire of the Dawn if it existed
  • The First Men Westeros-Centric Long Night Myth is retrospective retelling to fit their new home

Personally I think the former option is more likely.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Is there any indication as to why they left? Usually people don't just migrate en masse for no reason. Assuming the Great Empire of the Dawn was an actual Empire and not just a myth, could there be any connection between the two?

They might have been following the animals they were hunting, like how the Paleolithic hunters came to the Americas.  

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According to the wiki:

Quote

Some maesters believe that the First Men originated in the grasslands of Essos, in the lands now known as the Dothraki sea.[52] Between eight thousand and twelve thousand years[9][14] before Aegon's Landing, during the Dawn Age, the First Men came to Westeros from Essos, although no tale recalls exactly why they made the trek westwards.[9]

Marauding Dothraki would certainly be a good reason for a people to migrate.

I haven't read AWOIAF in a while, but there might be some clues in there.  Is there an ancient Essosi culture that has characteristics similar to the First Men?  If we can figure out where they came from, that might give us a hint about why they left.

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2 hours ago, Aebram said:

Marauding Dothraki would certainly be a good reason for a people to migrate.

They would, but the Dothraki didn't appear there until after Valyria collapsed so the timing doesn't seem to work. Unless it was some proto-Dothraki but there's no evidence either way.

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13 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

If the Barrow King was the first King of the First men what the hell is he doing so far north?

I was wondering about that too. If the First Men arrived in Westeros by crossing the Arm of Dorne, it would probably have taken many generations for their population to expand North of the Neck . Most likely the "First King" was actually the first king of the men who settled in the barrowlands, not of all Westeros.

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On 6/2/2023 at 1:27 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I wonder if their migration wasn't tied to a long night (or The Long Night if there's only been one). If the Barrow King was the first King of the First men what the hell is he doing so far north? It may be that the First Men crossed the sea with the intention of going North once they reached Westeros.  

There’s a significant span of time between the FM arriving and the hundreds of “reigns” being established… at least iirc. 
 

OP: as usual we have basically no actual info on this; hopefully one day we’ll get some?

My thoughts on this have always been that they were running from something. That said, I don’t subscribe to the GEotD being what they were running from, nor a long night type event. Maybe they were running from slavers/conquerors? But that’s just a gut feeling. I also think the FM were in Westeros during “the” Long Night. :dunno:

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21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

My thoughts on this have always been that they were running from something.

I think this is likely given the other group that migrated to Westeros, the Andals, were also running from something.

22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

that said, I don’t subscribe to the GEotD being what they were running from

Yeah, I'm not convinced on that either, just thought it might be worth mentioning since it is the only entity in the area which may have been around ~8000 years ago or whenever the First Men migrated. I don't think things from the Worldbook like that will pop up in the main series, or if they did it would be brief, not as a big plot point.

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6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think this is likely given the other group that migrated to Westeros, the Andals, were also running from something.

And the Rhoynar as well, come to think of it. So yeah, it would make sense that all 3 had a similar reason even if each migration happened at different points in time. 

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yeah, I'm not convinced on that either, just thought it might be worth mentioning since it is the only entity in the area which may have been around ~8000 years ago or whenever the First Men migrated. I don't think things from the Worldbook like that will pop up in the main series, or if they did it would be brief, not as a big plot point.

Same here. I mean, there are clues and hints to many things there, but I don’t think any of those gemstones rulers will play a main part in the current timeline, I think that’s mostly for flavour etc. 

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On 6/1/2023 at 3:44 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Usually people don't just migrate en masse for no reason.

Nah I think usually people do, or did. That's why humans are all over the globe, they just followed the animals to whatever. I guess the weather too was a huge reason for human migration and climate change in Westeros is just all types of crazy so I don't think there's a real concrete reason. Just prehistoric cavemen doing what they do best, not living in caves.

Brans vision which is probably in Winterfell so a good amount past the initial invasion has them using flint weapons for the kill, so real real old school. I highly doubt they were running from anything as back in the day I don't think there was anything worth running away from

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Essos got too woke. Couldn’t even sit down to a family dinner/human sacrifice without someone yammering on about the entertainment. If you’re not free to enslave, torture and kill others for your own reasons, how can you be truly free? Heard there are little folk in Westeros who don’t even have proper weapons….sounds like freedom’s back on the menu, boys!

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9 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Essos got too woke. Couldn’t even sit down to a family dinner/human sacrifice without someone yammering on about the entertainment. If you’re not free to enslave, torture and kill others for your own reasons, how can you be truly free? Heard there are little folk in Westeros who don’t even have proper weapons….sounds like freedom’s back on the menu, boys!

Jeezuz now I’m picturing DeSantis as a PJ Orc, cheers! :rofl:

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On 6/3/2023 at 1:27 PM, kissdbyfire said:

There’s a significant span of time between the FM arriving and the hundreds of “reigns” being established… at least iirc. 
 

OP: as usual we have basically no actual info on this; hopefully one day we’ll get some?

My thoughts on this have always been that they were running from something. That said, I don’t subscribe to the GEotD being what they were running from, nor a long night type event. Maybe they were running from slavers/conquerors? But that’s just a gut feeling. I also think the FM were in Westeros during “the” Long Night. :dunno:

That's a pretty murky situation.  I think it's left for us to infer that the two can't be the same person because of the timeline, but if unnatural long life is part of the equation then possibilities open up. I don't recall the passage now but there was something that could have been interpreted to suggest that Garth may have had the powers of the greenseer without being locked in a tree or something (one of Damphair's history lessons I think).  I think I got to try and find that though, I'm just babbling without it. 

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41 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

That's a pretty murky situation.  I think it's left for us to infer that the two can't be the same person because of the timeline, but if unnatural long life is part of the equation then possibilities open up. I don't recall the passage now but there was something that could have been interpreted to suggest that Garth may have had the powers of the greenseer without being locked in a tree or something (one of Damphair's history lessons I think).  I think I got to try and find that though, I'm just babbling without it. 

The two who? I’m confused now… well, now and always, but still, iirc your post I replied to didn’t bring any of this up? I thought - again, as far as I recall - that you were talking about the barrow king? 

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4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The two who? I’m confused now… well, now and always, but still, iirc your post I replied to didn’t bring any of this up? I thought - again, as far as I recall - that you were talking about the barrow king? 

Hah sorry that wasn't very clear. I meant the king that led the first men to Westeros and the Barrow King. I think they might have been rhe same excepionally long lived person.

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