US politics - wheeling and dealing, avoiding debt ceiling

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Total BS what Okies have done here-

State school board approves application for first publicly funded religious charter school in the nation

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/06/us/oklahoma-religious-charter-school

You just know if it were for a state funded Islam, Hindu, Buddhist temple or Native American Learning Center or any non Christian affiliated organization it would never see the floor of that states legislature.

Give me freedom from your state religion BS please!

It's fascinating to me, though, that this is a Roman Catholic school. It really wasn't too long ago that political leaders in Oklahoma wouldn't have thought of funding an organization run by "Papists". 

[Fez]

Things are getting spicy in the House. Republicans planned to pass a resolution barring the administration from implementing new regulations on gas stoves (just a meaningless messaging bill since the senate will probably never vote on it). But in the floor vote on the rule to allow debate, most of the HFC voted 'no' in protest of the debt limit bill. And since all Democrats voted 'no' since its a dumb bill (and the minority party almost always votes no rules no matter what), the vote is currently failing 207-219.

The vote hasn't been closed yet (after 50 minutes), so maybe something gets worked out. But if this isn't a one-off, the House is now ungovernable without Democratic support.

[DireWolfSpirit]

On 6/6/2023 at 1:47 PM, Ormond said:

It's fascinating to me, though, that this is a Roman Catholic school. It really wasn't too long ago that political leaders in Oklahoma wouldn't have thought of funding an organization run by "Papists". 

Im curious whether heavily Mormon states like Utah will now push to get taxpayer support for their LDS centers. These are in many neighborhoods and function as daycare, preschool, rec centers and umbrella like community centers. The LDS fund these now, but im sure the idea of tax funds helping with gymnasiums and bible study centers must be enticing for a church like that as it is also so appealing to diocese im sure.

Its a can of worms though because we know each and every religious organization cannot all get the favored state support.

Edited June 7, 2023 by DireWolfSpirit

[Mindwalker]

Just fyi, I used to like Cornell West, but seriously think he's lost his friggin' mind. He also called Russell Brand as a "progressive gem," and a couple of weeks ago I heard he praised Rep. IfThat'sReallyHisName in an op-ed.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Fez said:

Things are getting spicy in the House. Republicans planned to pass a resolution barring the administration from implementing new regulations on gas stoves

I really haven't been following this topic because it's so weird sounding. Why did this become such a big issue?

Anyway, came here to say Meadows testified. Smith is getting closer all the time. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Just fyi, I used to like Cornell West, but seriously think he's lost his friggin' mind. He also called Russell Brand as a "progressive gem," and a couple of weeks ago I heard he praised Rep. IfThat'sReallyHisName in an op-ed.

He's been off his rocker for a long time. It's funny that he mentioned Brand because the two really seem quite similar. I use to like both of them a lot. 

[Zorral]

George Santos (so he sez he iz) lost another one:

Judge grants request for George Santos’s bond sponsors to be unsealed

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4036947-judge-grants-request-for-george-santoss-bond-sponsors-to-be-unsealed/

That he doesn't want anyone to know who paid his bail really makes me want to know who paid his bail

[DMC]

43 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why did this become such a big issue?

Because calling the HFC a bunch of whiny babies is an insult to whiny babies.

[Quijote Light]

3 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Just fyi, I used to like Cornell West, but seriously think he's lost his friggin' mind. He also called Russell Brand as a "progressive gem," and a couple of weeks ago I heard he praised Rep. IfThat'sReallyHisName in an op-ed.

I lost respect for him when he went on Bill Maher’s show to give him a pass for using the N word. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

47 minutes ago, Zorral said:

George Santos (so he sez he iz) lost another one:

Judge grants request for George Santos’s bond sponsors to be unsealed

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4036947-judge-grants-request-for-george-santoss-bond-sponsors-to-be-unsealed/

That he doesn't want anyone to know who paid his bail really makes me want to know who paid his bail

I’m curious to see if it was a foreign power.

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

’m curious to see if it was a foreign power.

This is probably silly but my first thought was "they said if their names come out he's dead, fred."

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I really haven't been following this topic because it's so weird sounding. Why did this become such a big issue?

Do you mean the HFC actions or the underlying bill around gas stoves?

With gas stoves, there was another report a few months back finding that they're a significant source of indoor air pollution. And relatedly, New York passed a law banning stoves for new homes built starting in 2025; as part of their effort to shift the state more toward renewable energy. As a result, as with every change no matter how big or small, conservatives took this as a foundational attack on their way of life and it became yet another huge culture war fight.

With the HFC, they're a bunch of whiny loudmouths who are pissed that McCarthy managed to bypass them on the debt ceiling and are acting out. But they aren't trying to remove him (yet, at least) because there is no one else who can win a Speaker vote right now. So instead they forced the first floor vote failure on a rule since 2002.

[Kalbear]

On the gas stoves - foodies and cooks have been told for decades that cooking with gas is the best thing ever. They do actually like them more than anything else.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Thanks @Fez.

1 hour ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

On the gas stoves - foodies and cooks have been told for decades that cooking with gas is the best thing ever. They do actually like them more than anything else.

I taught cooking classes for a few years in college. Most people couldn't tell the difference if I made something on a gas stove or a cheap electric grill. It's such a dumb issue to make a fuss about, but that's Republicans for you. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

6 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Just fyi, I used to like Cornell West, but seriously think he's lost his friggin' mind. He also called Russell Brand as a "progressive gem," and a couple of weeks ago I heard he praised Rep. IfThat'sReallyHisName in an op-ed.

Populists especially left wing populists I’m finding to be more and more stupid.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Populists especially left wing populists I’m finding to be more and more stupid.

Watching left wing populists offer apologia for the Russian invasion of Ukraine makes my head hurt…

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Watching left wing populists offer apologia for the Russian invasion of Ukraine makes my head hurt…

For some leftists the conservative stereotype is unfortunately true. Whatever the conflict they will immediately go “America bad” “west bad” and think there giving deep thoughts on geo politics.

Jesus Christ even I’ve been suspebtible with such thinking my only  commentary on Maduro when he was turning Venezuela into a dictatorship was to do whataboutisms.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

Remember the person to head of GAG is a woman whose social media was filled with Nazi paraphernalia.

[IheartIheartTesla]

CNN CEO Chris Licht reportedly to leave cable news giant within 48 hours | CNN | The Guardian

Anyone who associates with the orange cheeto eventually gets burnt, no idea why he still has high profile followers.

[Zorral]

The need for concern about Cornell West, who has no influential power in the media or politically vs somebody like Licht is light years apart.  One is real, the other is merely performative pearl clutching. Guess which one is which.

'“Americans are losing hold of a fundamental right as citizens of a free country: the right to speak their minds and voice their opinions in public without fear of being shamed or shunned,” the New York Times declared in the first sentence of a March 2022 editorial.

In reality, there has never been a right to voice your opinion without the possibility of being shamed or shunned (terms without precise meanings) — and there shouldn’t be. Shaming and shunning people are free expression, too. What I suspect this editorial was actually calling for is for self-described Democrats and liberals to be able to express more conservative views (such as skepticism about transgender rights) but without being attacked in the way that conservatives often are for such views (being called bigots)."

Quote

 

.... After the firestorm created by the Atlantic article, Licht is now stepping down from his post. But all of the harsh criticism is a bit unfair to Licht. In particular, his skepticism of left-wing causes, and his view that people who don’t agree with the left are constantly attacked and shamed, isn’t some outlier stance. These ideas are regularly expressed in many of the nation’s most prominent news outlets. If you spend a lot of time talking to White men in Democratic politics, as I do, you have to nod along as comments like Licht’s are made, even if you don’t agree with them, to signal that you are a reasonable person worth talking to.

Licht’s comments embody an anti-woke centrism that is increasingly prominent in American media and politics today, particularly among powerful White men who live on the coasts and don’t identify as Republicans or conservatives. It’s deeply flawed, and it’s pushing some important U.S. institutions to make bad decisions.

By anti-woke, what I mean is skepticism of progressive causes and ideas, especially on issues of gender, race and sexuality. The term “woke” is vague and imprecise. But I think it does capture the movements toward greater equality such as Black Lives Matter that have gained strength and prominence over the past decade, particularly since the protests after the killing of George Floyd.

What I am describing is softer than the outright opposition on the political right to ideas such as critical race theory. Licht, for example, did not say he wants to see racial diversity initiatives at workplaces overturned or to ban gender-affirming care.

You might call this centrism — and, to some extent, it is. But this is not the centrism of say, President Biden, who opposes some left-wing causes but doesn’t spend a lot of time deriding people who support them. Anti-woke centrism is really about emphasizing differences with progressives, who are inaccurately cast as Twitter-obsessed college graduates who constantly use terms like Latinx and are out of touch with ordinary Democratic voters.

Also, this kind of centrism isn’t usually described with that term by the people who practice it. Instead, they cast themselves as nonideological and neutral, while arguing that those who criticize them are dogmatic and nonobjective. Licht repeatedly referred to those who don’t share his journalism vision as looking to do “advocacy.”

Likewise, Chuck Todd, in his announcement this past Sunday that he is stepping down as moderator of “Meet the Press,” cast those who didn’t like how he hosted the show as “partisans.” New York Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger and former Washington Post executive editor Martin Baron have recently written pieces suggesting critics of the mainstream media don’t properly understand and appreciate objectivity and journalistic independence.

It really matters that these anti-woke centrists often live in deeply Democratic areas. If you are in a red state, like me, you are constantly in fear of your state government adopting conservative policies — such as new limitations on reproductive freedom, transgender rights and honest education about race. But if you live in D.C. New York City or San Francisco, a much more realistic concern is that a “woke” liberal with whom you don’t agree gains political power — or sharply criticizes you in public.

“Americans are losing hold of a fundamental right as citizens of a free country: the right to speak their minds and voice their opinions in public without fear of being shamed or shunned,” the New York Times declared in the first sentence of a March 2022 editorial.

In reality, there has never been a right to voice your opinion without the possibility of being shamed or shunned (terms without precise meanings) — and there shouldn’t be. Shaming and shunning people are free expression, too. What I suspect this editorial was actually calling for is for self-described Democrats and liberals to be able to express more conservative views (such as skepticism about transgender rights) but without being attacked in the way that conservatives often are for such views (being called bigots).

People who are not White men sometimes express Licht’s sentiments. (See Democratic Mayor Eric Adams of New York City.) But it’s hard to ignore that the people most invested in these sentiments tend to be White and male. The left-wing movements of the past decade, particularly Black Lives Matter, say America is dominated by white supremacy, patriarchy and out of control capitalism. So it is not surprising that rich White men view these movements, particularly their more radical ideas, with some skepticism.

Licht and Elon Musk, who has expressed similar sentiments, control two hugely important media platforms. Their views matter. That they have become consumed by this anti-wokeism has meant that great journalists were fired at CNN for being too anti-Trump and that Twitter’s verification system was disabled it seemed because Musk felt it gave too much prominence to left-wing people.

It’s discouraging that Sulzberger is caught up in Twitter bashing, recently casting the platform as “fostering a type of groupthink inside the profession.” Is Sulzberger carefully reading tweets from local news organizations in small and midsize cities across the country and concluding that the coverage is groupthink? I doubt it. He is just rebuking left-leaning activists who use the site to critique the Times. There was plenty of groupthink inside elite news outlets such as the Times before Twitter existed — but not really an easy way to alert their reporters to police shootings of unarmed Black men.

There can and should be open debate about police reform, diversity, covid-19 policies and other issues — both between the two parties and among progressives and other non-Republicans. But when we have a left that is pushing America to finish the work of the 1960s and create a true multicultural democracy and a right that is banning Black intellectual ideas from public schools, it’s a huge mistake for powerful non-Republicans in society to spend so much time bashing the left. This anti-woke centrism often sounds as though people are auditioning to be today’s version of the “white moderates” the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. castigated six decades ago.

Chris Licht doesn’t have to be woke. Everyone in America doesn’t need to put their preferred pronouns in their Twitter bios or use the term “birthing people.” I don’t do either of those things.

But Licht and others like him should definitely stop being so anti-woke. It is disappointing that some of the most powerful people in the country think the problem in America is that people are too critical of the police and insufficiently critical of transgender activists. I can’t tell if the anti-woke don’t understand what’s actually happening in America — or if they actively oppose a more equitable country.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/06/06/anti-woke-centrism-cnn-chris-licht-atlantic-profile/

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Zorral