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US politics - wheeling and dealing, avoiding debt ceiling


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1 minute ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

I also would appreciate if you would use my full title of Kalnac the magnificent

I almost did call you Kalnac but I wanted you to do it on your own initiative.  You're welcome for the new name.

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Just now, DMC said:

I almost did call you Kalnac but I wanted you to do it on your own initiative.  You're welcome for the new name.

 Or...did I make you think that you wanted me to do it but I actually had it planned out this whole time?

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Just now, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

 Or...did I make you think that you wanted me to do it but I actually had it planned out this whole time?

I LOL'd.  Well done.

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I have heard now much more information about these 37 counts, and the content of the documents he stole.

Call it espionage.  But call it treason too.

Both of these are federal crimes and demand imprisonment at the very least.

It was inevitable, utterly predictable, that this is what he'd do with top secret information.  We said it, over and over and over, even before he slithered into the Oval.

Execute him.

Edited by Zorral
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4 hours ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Hah, no. His poor valet (who is also being charged the same way) will totally be, but he won't

I think you misunderestimate the degree of his legal trouble.  I'm not sure what your reasoning is (beyond cynicism) but other prosecutions are not useful guides here because the scale of Trump's misconduct is unrivalled in the history of the modern national security state.  But even Petraueus, whom you cite, accepted a plea deal (to avoid jail time) and Trump won't so...

withdrawal as a candidate for president, btw, will not be a formal or informal term of any plea deal.  There's just insufficient trust between the defense team and the prosecution to even have that kind of informal convo or for the defense to offer it in mitigation...

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6 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I think you misunderestimate the degree of his legal trouble.  I'm not sure what your reasoning is (beyond cynicism) but other prosecutions are not useful guides here because the scale of Trump's misconduct is unrivalled in the history of the modern national security state.  But even Petraueus, whom you cite, accepted a plea deal (to avoid jail time) and Trump won't so...

Yeah, this isn't remotely true at all. This is willful retention of secret documents that Trump legitimately had access to previously. This is mishandling - gross mishandling - but it is not something like actually handing over the secrets, or profiting from them, or deliberately trying to sneak them out. 

Again the important thing to understand here in my reasoning is - where is the actual harm? There's certainly a possibility for harm, but it did not, say, reveal state secrets directly (unlike Reality Winner) or divulge them to the press (unlike Snowden) or actually put them in a book (like Petraeus). 

So yeah - it's going to be a very hard sell to get him majorly punished. I'm even willing to entertain the notion that he gets convicted. The evidence is strong, the Espionage Act is incredibly broad and stupid, and Trump as is his typical behavior admitted to doing crimes. But actual serious penalties? Please.

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2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Do you generally support the death penalty or just for far right politicos like trump?

 

what do you think?

Edited by Zorral
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Question for our resident US legals.

Is this true?

 

Quote

It's a criminal case. My understanding is that if Cannon is the trial judge, and Trump files a motion for a directed verdict (as he will), she can rule that the evidence on every count is such that no reasonable jury could find Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and throw out the entire case. Not appealable because of the constitutional prohibition of double jeopardy. Game over.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/motiondismiss/

That would be fucked up beyond Florida levels of fucked up. (not saying who lives there :leaving:)

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1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don’t know that’s why I ask. 
 

What circumstances generally demand execution in your mind?

I have viking ancestry.

Whereas I generally do not support the death penalty, there are some who need to be erased from the face of the earth.  After a fair trial of course.  But people who have done what he's done and continues to do and wants to do further -- which includes but is not limited to destroying my nation -- death penalty for sure. They hung those who were the conspirators in Lincoln's assassination.  They were right, though rather late to matter, in a sense, but still, those who murder somebody because he is against perpetual slavery, and they lost, well, ya.

For example, yes, Putin should be executed for war crimes and crimes against humanity and enabling tens of thousands of other to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.l

Satisfied?

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