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Titanic Horror! Tourist Submersible Goes Missing While Attempting to View Wreckage of Titanic.


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1 hour ago, Madame deVenoge said:

I think that there’s a difference because of the fact that if you’re on the surface, you have a chance. If you’re 2 miles under the sea, not so much - also the fact that boats and ships sail every day, and many people have themselves sailed or been a passenger on a boat or a ship. 

On a submersible? Not so much.

Rich people dying tragically is just going to get more attention. More so when they die trying to look at a tomb for a lot of other rich people. 

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Rich people dying tragically is just going to get more attention. More so when they die trying to look at a tomb for a lot of other rich people. 

I don't think it actually has much to do with them being rich so much as the unique  nature of the  story. The Thai boys in the cave was also a huge story despite them being super poor. If these billionaire's had been on a yacht that caught fire it would have been local news at best. These odd race against the clock stories have an appeal to our human nature. I got a bit sucked into this despite it being a bit morbid, but it's an interesting problem with a human element, it appeals to our lizard brains.

Also it's been a bit disturbing seeing the number of people on Reddit reveling in their death because they are rich. 

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2 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

This guy also claims he was going to be on the space shuttle Columbia.  

The difference between that statement and this is that Cameron is an actual deep sea explorer, one of the most acomplished still alive today, and has actually funded and taken part in the design of deep sea subs. The pilot of the Titan was a personal friend of his, even.

 

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19 minutes ago, Ran said:

The difference between that statement and this is that Cameron is an actual deep sea explorer, one of the most acomplished still alive today, and has actually funded and taken part in the design of deep sea subs. The pilot of the Titan was a personal friend of his, even.

 

Yes, I agree, he was better positioned than most to know.  If he had something before Thursday I would have given great weight to his statement, and he really should have said something if the entire exercise was futile.  Governments are driven by public opinion and public opinion was desperate to rescue them because everyone imagined the horror of being trapped at the bottom of the ocean.  

Anyway, take his statement in the first few minutes on its own terms: he says the only scenario that could account for that would be an implosion because that's the only way they could lose comms.  I don't claim to know or understand the technology, but it is public knowledge that the submersible did previously lose comms/contact for a few hours and it didn't implode.  

One take-away from this submersible accident was that there were many ways for things to have gone wrong: from the absence of a beacon, the prior history of losing contact; to the engineering flaw of repeatedly using carbon fiber modules that weaken through successive trips due to water pressure.

The fact the CEO went himself every time was the bullshit that impressed people it was safe so they didn't ask skeptical questions.  I can understand professional (or amateur) thrill-seekers who love high-risk adventure sports/exploration.  But that 19 year old just went to make his dad happy....

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Just now, Gaston de Foix said:

and he really should have said something if the entire exercise was futile. 

I mean, not at all his place, there are families involved and there is a process. Who wants to say they're almost sure that something disastrous happened and then the 1 in a million shot of you being wrong turns out to be the case?

I agree that the comms thing, however, is wrong. The reason they didn't report the problem for so long was precisely because they lost comms pretty much 100% of the time and assumed it was just how it was going to be even if things went right. That said, the real tell was the fact that the ship hadn't surfaced on its own after the fail safes that were designed to make it go up after ~14 hours. I'm sure Cameron and others who had knowledge of this stuff knew that there had almost certainly been a catastrophe by that point.

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7 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Yes, I agree, he was better positioned than most to know.  If he had something before Thursday I would have given great weight to his statement, and he really should have said something if the entire exercise was futile.  Governments are driven by public opinion and public opinion was desperate to rescue them because everyone imagined the horror of being trapped at the bottom of the ocean.  

Anyway, take his statement in the first few minutes on its own terms: he says the only scenario that could account for that would be an implosion because that's the only way they could lose comms.  I don't claim to know or understand the technology, but it is public knowledge that the submersible did previously lose comms/contact for a few hours and it didn't implode.  

One take-away from this submersible accident was that there were many ways for things to have gone wrong: from the absence of a beacon, the prior history of losing contact; to the engineering flaw of repeatedly using carbon fiber modules that weaken through successive trips due to water pressure.

The fact the CEO went himself every time was the bullshit that impressed people it was safe so they didn't ask skeptical questions.  I can understand professional (or amateur) thrill-seekers who love high-risk adventure sports/exploration.  But that 19 year old just went to make his dad happy....

Listen again.

He said communication and tracking (transponder) simultaneously. The transponder in particular was what set off his alarm bells as that is apparently extra protected against pressure. 

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20 minutes ago, Ran said:

I mean, not at all his place, there are families involved and there is a process. Who wants to say they're almost sure that something disastrous happened and then the 1 in a million shot of you being wrong turns out to be the case?

I agree that the comms thing, however, is wrong. The reason they didn't report the problem for so long was precisely because they lost comms pretty much 100% of the time and assumed it was just how it was going to be even if things went right. That said, the real tell was the fact that the ship hadn't surfaced on its own after the fail safes that were designed to make it go up after ~14 hours. I'm sure Cameron and others who had knowledge of this stuff knew that there had almost certainly been a catastrophe by that point.

We had talking heads on CNN speculating about PJ providing leadership.  Everyone was talking about it.  James Cameron sharing his views would not have affected chances of rescue, but it would have addressed completely imbalanced and off-base public discourse.  

13 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Listen again.

He said communication and tracking (transponder) simultaneously. The transponder in particular was what set off his alarm bells as that is apparently extra protected against pressure. 

 I knew my Ludditism was going to catch me out here.  So in the 2022 incident the transponder was working and the ship knew where they were but they lost comms?  

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2 hours ago, Darzin said:

Also it's been a bit disturbing seeing the number of people on Reddit reveling in their death because they are rich. 

Envy and a want for cruelty.

Worse yet is the attempt at presenting the ghoulish behavior  as serving some grander purpose.

7 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Fuck.

 

Too many people believe the amount of money you have determines you’re intelligence and rationality.

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1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

 I knew my Ludditism was going to catch me out here.  So in the 2022 incident the transponder was working and the ship knew where they were but they lost comms?  

No idea, just repeating what Cameron said. 

Don't claim any expertise on the matter of deep sea exploration other than, it that there's fuckton of water pressure down there. 

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1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Envy and a want for cruelty.

Worse yet is the attempt at presenting the ghoulish behavior  as serving some grander purpose.

Too many people believe the amount of money you have determines you’re intelligence and rationality.

The bolded explains why many people rejoice when thrill-seeking billionaires die stupidly.

The very existence of billionaires is a form of violence on the working-class individual, who is told that they are less intelligent, or less rational, or just a loser.

Nothing ghoulish about it: violence begets violence, even if symbolic.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

Recovery attempts and investigation is going to happen regardless of what acoustics indicate. While they had a strong reason to believe it was the sound of an implosion, they couldn't be sure until they found the debris.

… and, those guys are going to search in whatever way they are able. A military aircraft can scan the surface; it can’t go to the ocean floor. The ocean-floor scanning do-dad doesn’t show up for a few days, so either everyone just sits around or they do what they can, no matter how low-percentage it is.

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8 hours ago, Darzin said:

I don't think it actually has much to do with them being rich so much as the unique  nature of the  story. The Thai boys in the cave was also a huge story despite them being super poor. If these billionaire's had been on a yacht that caught fire it would have been local news at best. These odd race against the clock stories have an appeal to our human nature. I got a bit sucked into this despite it being a bit morbid, but it's an interesting problem with a human element, it appeals to our lizard brains.

The Chilian miners also got a lot of coverage, but this story was on the news I had on every three segments all day long. I do think their wealth play a role in that, but it also could be because the Titanic is so iconic and people sinking to see a sinking shit is unique. 

Quote

Also it's been a bit disturbing seeing the number of people on Reddit reveling in their death because they are rich. 

Obviously this is a different topic, but people are increasingly getting pissed about the growing wealth gap, as they should. That doesn't mean you should wish death upon anyone, however it's easy to see how people can basically be like "serves you right."

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I understand cruelty can be an expression of power and having power is fun.

But please don’t try to make this some personal interest in cosmetic justice. 

Yeah, I don’t have a tremendous amount of sympathy for these people; but some of the online discourse is getting ridiculous. 

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5 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

No idea, just repeating what Cameron said. 

Don't claim any expertise on the matter of deep sea exploration other than, it that there's fuckton of water pressure down there. 

The transponder has its own dedicated power supply and is contained in its own pressure vessel. There’s no plausible reason for it to go down along with comms unless a catastrophic event took them both down. 

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50 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yeah, I don’t have a tremendous amount of sympathy for these people; but some of the online discourse is getting ridiculous. 

I do have some sympathy for the teenager who apparently did not want to go but was dragged along by his father. He certainly did not deserve this fate (not to say the others did; rich people dying for being rich is just slightly tarring with a broad brush).

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