Jump to content

Are Tyrells Just Oppurtunistic Scum?


Corvo the Crow
 Share

Recommended Posts

They constantly snuck their daughters to the bed of their Gardener kings, yield the Reach to Targs immediately after field of fire, surrender to RR after Aerys dies despite there still are members of the Targs and they have an army on the field and more men to raise, try to get Margaery in bed with Robert, after Robert dies marry her to Renly and try to seize the throne, once that fails marry her to Jauffre and when he dies Tommen. I’m pretty sure if Stannis didn’t hate their guts(rightfully) they’d try him as well and may yet try to do that despite that if Tommen dies. For a Reachman family of obscure origin, they really overreach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

They constantly snuck their daughters to the bed of their Gardener kings, yield the Reach to Targs immediately after field of fire, surrender to RR after Aerys dies despite there still are members of the Targs and they have an army on the field and more men to raise, try to get Margaery in bed with Robert, after Robert dies marry her to Renly and try to seize the throne, once that fails marry her to Jauffre and when he dies Tommen. I’m pretty sure if Stannis didn’t hate their guts(rightfully) they’d try him as well and may yet try to do that despite that if Tommen dies. For a Reachman family of obscure origin, they really overreach.

You could say the same for quite a few other houses, many of them in the Reach. The Hightowers, the Peakes, the Florents, etc

Edited by James Steller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

after Robert dies marry her to Renly and try to seize the throne

To be fair I got the impression it was Renly who suggested that first, not the Tyrells. Tyrells could have remained neutral and conserved their resources. It's not like whoever was left standing was going to bother them unless they were stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People in the Reach kind of have to be graspy and opportunistic to survive, unlike the other kingdoms the Reach has no natural barriers and was probably running the risk of being attacked by multiple kingdoms at once pre-conquest. @John Suburbs had a good theory about this.

Edited by Craving Peaches
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

People in the Reach kind of have to be graspy and opportunistic to survive, unlike the other kingdoms the Reach has no natural barriers and were probably running the risk of being attacked by multiple kingdoms at once pre-conquest. @John Suburbs had a good theory about this.

The Riverlands have it even worse than the Reach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always viewed Mace as the opportunist. Maybe Olenna a little bit, she comes off as more of a caretaker for her family. She prioritizes their safety. That's why I don't see them as opportunistic scum, because when you look at the Tyrell children they're actually pretty damn good kids. Especially Garlan, and probably Willas.

I view the Tyrells as a mix between House Stark and House Lannister (barely). They're loyal to each other, their love for one another is genuine, but they're also cunning, rich, and "ambitious" (*cough*Mace*cough*).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I've always viewed Mace as the opportunist. Maybe Olenna a little bit, she comes off as more of a caretaker for her family. She prioritizes their safety. That's why I don't see them as opportunistic scum, because when you look at the Tyrell children they're actually pretty damn good kids. Especially Garlan, and probably Willas.

I view the Tyrells as a mix between House Stark and House Lannister (barely). They're loyal to each other, their love for one another is genuine, but they're also cunning, rich, and "ambitious" (*cough*Mace*cough*).

The Tyrells do have elements of both the Starks and Lannisters.  They have the Lannisters' cunning, political savvy, and a bit of ambition, combined with the Starks' familial love.  Also, from what I can tell, they're a pretty decent bunch, though we don't know that much about them.  I certainly wouldn't call them "scum" though.

Edited by Nevets
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

They constantly snuck their daughters to the bed of their Gardener kings, yield the Reach to Targs immediately after field of fire, surrender to RR after Aerys dies despite there still are members of the Targs and they have an army on the field and more men to raise, try to get Margaery in bed with Robert, after Robert dies marry her to Renly and try to seize the throne, once that fails marry her to Jauffre and when he dies Tommen. I’m pretty sure if Stannis didn’t hate their guts(rightfully) they’d try him as well and may yet try to do that despite that if Tommen dies. For a Reachman family of obscure origin, they really overreach.

I don't know what makes this behavior "scum"? They win. No shame in winning. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

They have the Lannisters' cunning, political savvy, and a bit of ambition, combined with the Starks' familial love.

I feel like if any house can hold the reins of familial love, its Lannister.

 

31 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

I don't know what makes this behavior "scum"? They win. No shame in winning. 

Idk, Theyre winning sure, but why? Lannister wants power because if they lose it theyd lose everything, Baratheon wants power because they feel like its their time, Stark and Tully want power so they can escape the tyranny of KL, Martell as a means for vengeance, Greyjoy for their idea of honor , Dany because she feels like its her birthright.
But Tyrell, its like, fomo. I wouldnt personally call it scum, but I wouldnt use any nice words to describe it either

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Tyrells are opportunistic, but not especially so.

Mace mostly just got good offers - accepting the charismatic Renly as his King while his daughter becomes Queen and Starks wage war with Lannisters, accepting Joffrey as his King while his daughter becomes Queen and stop Stannis from taking the city, accepting Handship after Cersei fucked things up.

He never got into a situation where he was forced to make a challenging choice yet, even in RR he was able to get out by sieging SE (probably following his cautious mother's advice). 

The reason why he was in such a beneficial situation is because the Tyrells have managed to unite most of the Reach under them with marriage alliances.

Edited by csuszka1948
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

The Tyrells do have elements of both the Starks and Lannisters.  They have the Lannisters' cunning, political savvy, and a bit of ambition, combined with the Starks' familial love.  Also, from what I can tell, they're a pretty decent bunch, though we don't know that much about them.  I certainly wouldn't call them "scum" though.

Garlan is the only decent one. Willas could be decent from what we've been told of him, but we haven't seen him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

To be fair I got the impression it was Renly who suggested that first, not the Tyrells. Tyrells could have remained neutral and conserved their resources. It's not like whoever was left standing was going to bother them unless they were stupid.

Perhaps, but this doesn't change what came after, nor what came before, both the RR and AC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every single feudal lord is opportunistic scum underneath it all. Understand that in principle, feudal subjects are closer to slavery or serfdom than any modern understanding of citizens or w/e, they are forced into an iniquitous relationship, forced to support the lords above them at risk of imprisonment, torture, violence and death. Forced to fight in their wars regardless of cause or in any way involvement in the causes, ie just as dead if your lord is ‘defending’ against an attack or attacking because their lord wants more, or had an argument or is annoyed about a broken betrothal or w/e,  your life is forfeit at their whim.
 

How many died in the BF Rebellions which would have meant a lot to their rulers but almost nothing to the small folk, just a family squabble that cost thousands of lives who had little understanding of why they were fighting except they were ordered to. 

Edited by James Arryn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Tyrells have been 'growing strong' for 5 books, I feel that TWOW is going to be their (partial, not total) downfall though.

Mace will march out to face Aegon in the field and probably will be thoroughly beaten (perhaps one or two of his Blackfyre-friendly bannermen will change sides when they see him losing) and killed/captured.

Tommen will be killed by the Sandsnakes and Cersei will probably react by allying with Randyll Tarly and essentially capturing Margaery.

Euron will defeat the Redwyne fleet, attack Oldtown and Garlan Tyrell will be occupied dealing with him. I hope Sam gets to meet him and Willas, but I am not sure they will stand a chance against Euron if he gets a dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Every single feudal lord is opportunistic scum underneath it all. Understand that in principle, feudal subjects are closer to slavery or serfdom than any modern understanding of citizens or w/e, they are forced into an iniquitous relationship, forced to support the lords above them at risk of imprisonment, torture, violence and death. Forced to fight in their wars regardless of cause or in any way involvement in the causes, ie just as dead if your lord is ‘defending’ against an attack or attacking because their lord wants more, or had an argument or is annoyed about a broken betrothal or w/e,  your life is forfeit at their whim.
 

How many died in the BF Rebellions which would have meant a lot to their rulers but almost nothing to the small folk, just a family squabble that cost thousands of lives who had little understanding of why they were fighting except they were ordered to. 

Tyrion’s comment about how Eastern slavers treat their chattels similarly to the way lords treat the smallfolk should not be taken to suggest the slaves don’t have it so bad.  It’s a condemnation of the lords, even if Tyrion does not mean it as such.

Although, I do think chattel slavery is even worse than feudalism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...