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MCU - This Thread Wasn’t Made For You


DaveSumm
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48 minutes ago, sifth said:

The MCU sounds like a complete mess right now. It sort of reminds me of the state WB/DC was/is in.

Well, apart from the fact that it's still wildly successful.

Love and Thunder, the film everyone is slating, outperformed every DC film since 2018, by a huge margin: only one DC film in that period (Black Adam) took even half of what Love and Thunder took.

The lowest grossing Marvel film since 2018 is Black Widow and that took more than any DC film since 2018 except Black Adam.

Only one DC film ever (Aquaman) has taken more than Multiverse of Madness.

Numbers:

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Marvel-Cinematic-Universe#tab=summary

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/DC-Extended-Universe#tab=summary

I appreciate that the point here is not that DC good and Marvel bad, and nor am I saying the reverse: and clearly Disney are concerned, as the link above suggests. But Marvel are still in a position that DC can only envy.

Edited by mormont
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Just now, mormont said:

Well, apart from the fact that it's still wildly successful.

Love and Thunder, the film everyone is slating, outperformed every DC film since 2018, by a huge margin: only one DC film in that period (Black Adam) took even half of what Love and Thunder took.

The lowest grossing Marvel film since 2018 is Black Widow and that took more than any DC film except Black Adam.

Only one DC film ever (Aquaman) has taken more than Multiverse of Madness.

Numbers:

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Marvel-Cinematic-Universe#tab=summary

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/DC-Extended-Universe#tab=summary

I appreciate that the point here is not that DC good and Marvel bad, and nor am I saying the reverse: and clearly Disney are concerned, as the link above suggests. But Marvel are still in a position that DC can only envy.

Do you work for Disney? Honest question, though I doubt I'll get an honest answer. You always seem to be the main person in this community to rush to their defense, regardless of any mistakes they make.

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7 minutes ago, mormont said:

Well, apart from the fact that it's still wildly successful.

Bit of an overstatement. 

Love and Thunder made a surprisingly large amount of money despite being a turd of a movie. But Black Widow and Eternals didn't make their budget back, Quantumania really didn't do well. The Marvels looks set to be a huge flop too. 

On top of that Disney have spunked a load of cash of Disney+ shows that nobody is watching and things don't look good.

 

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

The MCU sounds like a complete mess right now. It sort of reminds me of the state WB/DC was/is in.

Also turns out the budget for She Hulk, was around 25 million an episode and the up coming Blade film was almost made, with Blade as the 4th lead, while his daughter and other women would be the main focus of the film.

And they wonder why their movies and series are losing audience by the minute... people in charge of doing things like this are so detached from reality they should probably get some sort of professional help.

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2 hours ago, sifth said:

Do you work for Disney? Honest question, though I doubt I'll get an honest answer. You always seem to be the main person in this community to rush to their defense, regardless of any mistakes they make.

No. I just think some perspective is called for.

It's not surprising that people are swift to play up any problems Marvel has: it's human nature. We like the narrative of the colossus being felled, particularly if it 'proves' we were 'right' about films that we personally didn't care for. Affirmation feels good!

But while Disney are clearly concerned, as I said, they remain miles ahead of DC and the comparison - so frequently made in these discussions - actually only really highlights how far ahead Marvel movies remain.

ETA - not that it matters, by the way, but if you're reading this thread, I've been a lot harder on season 2 of Loki than most others here and thought Secret Invasion was a waste of Samuel L Jackson's talents. I'm not exactly a reflexive Marvel shill.

Edited by mormont
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9 minutes ago, baxus said:

And they wonder why their movies and series are losing audience by the minute... people in charge of doing things like this are so detached from reality they should probably get some sort of professional help.

In the words of Cartman's mom..
"I’ve told you there’s no such thing as Disney executives who replace everyone you love with diverse women who complain about the patriarchy. Now be a big boy,”

Anyway, sure it's not as if Marvel are in serious trouble or hitting the lows of DC. At the same time they are mainly living off past successes. If Love and Thunder did well it's because of decisions made in previous movies, hiring Chris Hemsworth and appreciation for Ragnarok. Guardians of the Galaxy did well because previous movies were good (it did help it also was a good movie).

The problem for Marvel is the trend line doesn't look good. The new characters and properties they are bringing out aren't capturing the same attention from audiences and there isn't much enthusiasm to see more. Why do you think they are considering bringing back the old Avengers? It's a tragic indictment of recent decisions that they are even thinking about it. 

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36 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The problem for Marvel is the trend line doesn't look good. The new characters and properties they are bringing out aren't capturing the same attention from audiences and there isn't much enthusiasm to see more. Why do you think they are considering bringing back the old Avengers? It's a tragic indictment of recent decisions that they are even thinking about it. 

The wife and I will be there for The Marvels, but we both adore Brie Larson. That it's also incredibly short means our intensely finite attention spans will--

Hey look a shiny thing!

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Hey now, I think its really unfair to compare Marvel and DC here. In particular I think its ridiculous to use DC as a metric for success. Marvel movies can outperform DC movies and still not be a success by most other measures, like profit or critical acclaim! 

(That's how badly DC movies have bombed)

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26 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Hey now, I think its really unfair to compare Marvel and DC here. In particular I think its ridiculous to use DC as a metric for success. Marvel movies can outperform DC movies and still not be a success by most other measures, like profit or critical acclaim! 

(That's how badly DC movies have bombed)

I’m interested to see how The Marvels performs compared to The Flash. At the moment it’s not looking good, but that could always change, like with Elemental. 

 

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6 minutes ago, sifth said:

I’m interested to see how The Marvels performs compared to The Flash. At the moment it’s not looking good, but that could always change, like with Elemental. 

 

There has been talk of cutting back on marketing from Marvel as it becomes very expensive. Over here in London I'm seeing Marvels posters on every bus so I'm sure they haven't cut it to zero! 

Even then the signs don't look good as you say, there are too many reasons the think this looks dead in the water.

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3 hours ago, Rhom said:

I'll see it because I feel contractually obligated to see every MCU movie at this point...

I'll see it but when it gets to streaming services.

32 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Bringing back Ironman and Black Widow is a terrible idea, it's the white flag to the idea of trying to come up with any new stories or move forward.

They waved that flag long ago, in Endgame. If there's anything I hate in movies/TV series, it's time travel and bringing people back from the dead in order to clean up a mess in the storyline. There's not a single movie or TV series that maintained quality after opening either of those cans of worms. And Endgame opened both!

It was such a great opportunity to have original characters get snapped and/or die fighting Thanos and new generation Avengers take over from them and they let it go to waste.

Edited by baxus
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3 hours ago, Rhom said:

I'll see it because I feel contractually obligated to see every MCU movie at this point...

I laugh, but I've seen every Marvel movie in the theater since Avengers. (my kids were too little before then, and my wife didn't really care about Marvel until 2014 with Winter Soldier's realistic take on superheroes and then Guardians' exceptional entry a few months later.)

That was until 2023. I've felt none of the urgency to see Marvel on release (tv or movies), except for Guardians. I watched Secret Invasions as a background show while working sometime in July. I just saw Quantumania a few weeks ago. I was underwhelmed by both. I did start Loki last weekend, but am enjoying it. I feel no push to see Marvels in theater, even though I liked the trailer. The dynamics between the three leads look fun. 

Maybe I'm finally old. Maybe I'm just suffering from "superhero fatigue". Maybe I'm just waiting for a sign that the future looks more like GotG3 rather than 2022 MCU.

Edited by Myrddin
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31 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

This doesn't look uninteresting, and certainly committing more to showing violence than I expected from Disney+ work. 

 

If the trailer is any indication, maybe Disney+ Daredevil won't be that far off the Netflix version. 

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34 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Maybe I'm finally old. Maybe I'm just suffering from "superhero fatigue". Maybe I'm just waiting for a sign that the future looks more like GotG3 rather than 2022 MCU.

No, it's just the current franchises take everything far beyond the point where it's been overdone to death.  Disney is the worst offender, but far from the only one. 

The last really fresh MCU movie was either Black Panther or Infinity War.  Obviously Chadwick Boseman (RIP) dying was a huge blow to the MCU.  Regardless, they haven't been able to make anything that actually shines on its own since 2018, and now five years on, they can't just keep leaning on the older characters.

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1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

This doesn't look uninteresting, and certainly committing more to showing violence than I expected from Disney+ work. 

 

Oh this looks interesting. I suspect it's flaw is the time it took to get out post Hawkeye though. Who remembers Echo? That's a hurdle that has to be overcome.  Then again, perhaps it'll be a blessing as people will look at it with a fresh eye. I very much want the "street level" shows to succeed...

At least, I'll be watching...

(And yeah, that was a kinda violent trailer for Disney+...here's hoping that the level is sustained in a manner that makes sense...)

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