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Star Wars: You Must Be Over 18 (Midichlorians) To Enter


DaveSumm
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A new hope literally had a wacky prison escape scene, stormtrooper shenanigans , plenty of childish humour, Leia displaying zero emotions over losing her planet, heroes and villains clearly defined and a very upbeat feel. How does that feel like Andor which is apparently Uber “real” and grounded approach. Even the later movies had stuff like ewoks, space worms, a lightness to them that was really missing for me in Andors heaviness and broody,serious feel.
 

I guess aesthetically they are similar with that 70s sci fi approach and the timeline setting  but that just works on the most superficial level.Is that all it takes ? Instead of creating new designs and world building, just reworking your nostalgia for the galactic empire vs rebels setting again and again ? 

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There are a lot of lines that are pretty good in the PT, and the fact that some of them became memes isn't necessarily a point against them.
Imho the main problem of the PT is that it tried to tell stories that could have spanned decades in about a movie and a half: the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire (from "democracy" to authoritarianism), the fall of the Jedi from a spiritual order to a warrior order, and the fall of Anakin to the dark side.
It was extremely ambitious, and Lucas didn't know how to do it without resorting to heavy monologues and dialogues. Plus the whole thing had to be entertaining, so required both action and light-hearted moments (for the younger audience)...
Honestly, this was a challenging story to bring to the screen. As a point of comparison, it's not uncommon to say that Asimov's Foundation novels are impossible to adapt, precisely because they represent the fall of a galactic empire over a long time. And Foundation doesn't have the hurdle of pandering to kids...
 

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4 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

A new hope literally had a wacky prison escape scene, stormtrooper shenanigans , plenty of childish humour, Leia displaying zero emotions over losing her planet, heroes and villains clearly defined and a very upbeat feel. How does that feel like Andor which is apparently Uber “real” and grounded approach. Even the later movies had stuff like ewoks, space worms, a lightness to them that was really missing for me in Andors heaviness and broody,serious feel

We don't need to go over this again, but I would have thought it was obvious that the tone for the OT is very different to the PT. You could pull out a million examples where they just don't feel the same at all. It's not even worth debating.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

It's pretty but light and basically a live-action cartoon with cartoon-level writing. If you are someone who watched the cartoons, this probably works better.

I'm watching it, it passes the time, it's not very deep.

The bolded makes it sound like you are watching it in prison :p 

2 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Definitely worth watching if you’re a CW or Rebels fan. Even if you’re not this is probably the 2nd most enjoyable live action SW show I’ve seen following The Mandolorian S1-2

1 hour ago, IlyaP said:

Andor is still infinitely superior.

I wouldn't call the Mandalorian very watchable, so I guess I'm skipping this one.

Too bad. I saw one of those Charlie Hopkinson videos about Ashoka and I was mildly intrigued by the imagery of 

Spoiler

Ashoka seeing Anakin go of to war and change into Darth Vader for a brief minute.

As a visual motif that was rather good, but if all the rest is mediocre I'll just not bother with it.

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I think that's a good observation - Andor doesn't remotely feel like Star Wars. It does not fit with the rest of the movies or even the TV shows tonally or plot wise at all. 

It is visually closer with their use of practical sets and costuming. But I think what it does is it makes the star wars world that many of us have in our minds exist. It fills out the galaxy of size and scope and of a serious fight of a rebellion against an authoritarian dictatorship.

Does it have fart jokes and frogs eating random things in the desert and human eating teddy bears? Not at all. Does it have absurd prison escapes multiple times, dogfights, and Muppets talking smack? Nope. 

But its what we imagined after we, as kids, watched the OT, grew up, and thought about what the world would be like.

Edited by Kalnak the Magnificent
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2 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

But its what we imagined after we, as kids, watched the OT, grew up, and thought about what the world would be like.

Boom.

Also I feel like there is a level of mental propaganda by Lucas with the SW special editions that at the time felt like ways to enhance the OT with this new technology, but now I suspect they were psy-ops to make SW fans accept the upcoming stupid cartoon garbage he planned for the franchise.

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14 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

I think that's a good observation - Andor doesn't remotely feel like Star Wars. It does not fit with the rest of the movies or even the TV shows totally or plot wise at all.

Isn't the hidden truth is that most of us wish SW wasn't made for kids?

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11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Boom.

Also I feel like there is a level of mental propaganda by Lucas with the SW special editions that at the time felt like ways to enhance the OT with this new technology, but now I suspect they were psy-ops to make SW fans accept the upcoming stupid cartoon garbage he planned for the franchise.

All 6 SW episodes were meant by George to be seen as a single film in chronological order. Hence changes like Hayden christensen and Ian appearing in eps 6 and 5 respectively so it makes sense for a viewer watching it in the order George meant for it be seen. The other aspect was that the OT visually didn’t live upto his vision due to lack of time/budget/tech to fullfill certain scenes, hence the changes with Jabba, Jedi Rock,cloud city windows (even Kershner wasn’t satisfied with the cloud city sets but they ran out of money at that point) George has always tweaked the films even before 1997- making Luke’s lightsaber Green , adding shots to Empires ending, adding episode titles etc. I doubt it’s all some grand conspiracy man…

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2 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

All 6 SW episodes were meant by George to be seen as a single film in chronological order. Hence changes like Hayden christensen and Ian appearing in eps 6 and 5 respectively so it makes sense for a viewer watching it in the order George meant for it be seen. The other aspect was that the OT visually didn’t live upto his vision due to lack of time/budget/tech to fullfill certain scenes, hence the changes with Jabba, Jedi Rock,cloud city windows (even Kershner wasn’t satisfied with the cloud city sets but they ran out of money at that point) George has always tweaked the films even before 1997- making Luke’s lightsaber Green , adding shots to Empires ending, adding episode titles etc. I doubt it’s all some grand conspiracy man…

I was joking, but I'm also sort of not joking, those special editions really do contain some absolutely egregious inclusions, even at the time they were shocking. I'm not sure anyone watched the updated cantina song in Jedi and thought 'ooh yeah I love the direction this is going!' Turns out Lucas thought the whole trilogy for the PT should be like that!

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1 hour ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Even the later movies had stuff like ewoks, space worms, a lightness to them that was really missing for me in Andors heaviness and broody,serious feel.

Not a fan of The Empire Strikes Back which is the best film of the OT?  Hell… Han, Leia, and Chewy were tortured to draw Luke to Cloud City.  Luke had his hand sliced off…

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

Isn't the hidden truth is that most of us wish SW wasn't made for kids?

The “hidden truth” is that we… as kids… took the story seriously (particularly after Empire) so when Lucas went full Ewok with the PT… it landed poorly.

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1 hour ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Luke’s lightsaber Green

Luke’s lightsaber in ROTJ was always green.  It’s one of the first things I noticed when I saw the film at twelve years old.  I liked the Ewoks at the time… but less and less as the years have passed.

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18 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Luke’s lightsaber in ROTJ was always green.  It’s one of the first things I noticed when I saw the film at twelve years old.  I liked the Ewoks at the time… but less and less as the years have passed.

I meant right before the release of ROTJ in 1983 it was changed from blue to green to have better visibility against the blue skies of endor/tatooine. Same with adding more scenes in Empires ending scenes with Luke, leia and Lando and the rebel ships, right before it’s general release in 1980 and the title changes. The point was that Lucas was always making changes even before the controversy of the special editions came about, this was in reference to what heartofice was saying about Lucas retroactively trying to make the OT be more like the PT via the special editions.

Edited by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II
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24 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Not a fan of The Empire Strikes Back which is the best film of the OT?  Hell… Han, Leia, and Chewy were tortured to draw Luke to Cloud City.  Luke had his hand sliced off…

But I still feel there’s a tonal difference between empire and andor, it’s just a subjective feeling I guess. Andor seems way more slow and brooding. 

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10 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

But I still feel there’s a tonal difference between empire and andor, it’s just a subjective feeling I guess. Andor seems way more slow and brooding. 

No space wizards in Andor I’ll grant you that.  But visually they are very similar.

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15 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

I meant right before the release of ROTJ in 1983 it was changed from blue to green to have better visibility against the blue skies of endor/tatooine. Same with adding more scenes in Empires ending scenes with Luke, leia and Lando and the rebel ships, right before it’s general release in 1980 and the title changes. The point was that Lucas was always making changes even before the controversy of the special editions came about, this was in reference to what heartofice was saying about Lucas retroactively trying to make the OT be more like the PT via the special editions.

We didn’t know about any of those changes (with the exception to the title being changed from “Revenge of the Jedi” to “Return of the Jedi”) so they weren’t “changes” to us at the time.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No space wizards in Andor I’ll grant you that.  But visually they are very similar.

Yup, already made that point above that they are superficially alike in the retro 70s sci-fi style and costuming, guess it’s just not enough for me. 

Edited by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II
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2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Isn't the hidden truth is that most of us wish SW wasn't made for kids?

Well yeah. That's true of all the things we experienced as a kid. That's why mining nostalgia has such value. 

And honestly, Star Wars wasn't made just for kids; it was made as something that could be approachable for kids and was fun, but had bigger things in the background. But it definitely was made with kids having something to hang on to and enjoy. It is at its core a fun mythic adventure. 

And no, Lucas didn't go 'full Ewok' with the PT. Having lines like 'this is how democracy dies - to thunderous applause' is a fucking banger of a line that is not a cute or kid thing. Star Wars is made for kids the same way ATLA was, but it doesn't mean it can't have serious or deep moments. The closest you can argue is that TPM went more kid-friendly (which is something Lucas said specifically) but the trilogy itself is not particularly just for kids as a whole. 

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