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Rhaegar the Overrated


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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

An arranged marriage which is essentially just there so you can produce trueborn children is most definitely over then. Not that it would have been much of a marriage in a modern sense, anyway. Those are noble people. They have their own apartments, servants, companions. They mostly see their spouses for formal court ceremonies if they can't stand each other. And even that can be avoided.

Arranged marriages in Westeros have more importance than just producing children. Producing children is a primary duty, but the marriage is far from over if a woman can no longer bear children. Especially if the marriage was arranged for the purpose of strengthening alliances or mending wounds. Wives had other responsibilities outside of childbearing. The ladies of the house generally saw to the day to day running of the castle. Of course, this might be different for Elia. I don't believe she would be burdened with quite as many duties as a noble lady would, but she would still have a lot of influence in court. She would host and plan important feasts and banquets, probably oversee the staff, and she could act as mediator between families, and even amongst other vassals. She will have the most interaction with visiting nobles and she would be the one to oversee their comfort and needs. Both royal and noble women had a lot of responsibilities in their marriages, and even more so when their husbands were away.

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32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Even so much as threatening the Heir Apparent in front of the Mad King could be very dangerous. So, no, I don't buy that we can assume Brandon wanted to attack Rhaegar over this.

Where are you getting those three great lords? Robert was one, but he actually wasn't pissed off publicly - and had no reason for it. I mean, you are aware that many a man crowns princesses and queens the queen of love and beauty in such tournaments. They don't all lust after them. The smiles died because Rhaegar was married and should have chosen his wife, apparently, or perhaps a Whent girl, not Lyanna. It was odd. But not necessarily a huge scandal.

Ned was no great lord, Brandon was no great lord, and Lord Rickard was either not there or had no issue with the thing. No idea who you think the third one would have been? Doran Martell? He wasn't pissed off, either, even if he was there.

Nah. There's definitely reasons to expect violence if you kidnap someone's daughter or sister.

You said the Starks, the Dornish and Robert. We don't know who was pissed off. All we know is that it was the moment when all the smiles died, the Martells were upset about how Rhaegar was treating Elia and a war was started against Rhaegar and Aerys.

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54 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, the notion that the crowning was a big deal for many people seems a bit off. It was unusual and humiliating for Elia and kind of embarrassing for Lya, perhaps, but it wasn't something Rhaegar could not possibly do. Brandon is the only one who tried to make a fuzz ... Robert laughed it off and didn't show his anger.

It wasn't something many people but the Dornish, the Starks, and Robert would care about.

I don't think anyone is making that notion, unless I've missed a comment. Of course this is a bigger deal for the houses involved, we're just talking about the reputations of two extremely important and sweet ladies and how it would make them feel. This happened in front of...basically everyone. I know I touched on that, so I apologize if I caused any confusion.  There was strong gossip at the time, although according to Ned it eventually died down. Although I'm sure it picked back up again once word of Rhaegar's and Lynna's disappearance began to spread.

Edited by Ser Arthurs Dawn
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8 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Nah. There's definitely reasons to expect violence if you kidnap someone's daughter or sister.

Now you talk kidnapping - but we were talking crowning girls at tourneys.

8 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

You said the Starks, the Dornish and Robert. We don't know who was pissed off. All we know is that it was the moment when all the smiles died, the Martells were upset about how Rhaegar was treating Elia and a war was started against Rhaegar and Aerys.

You said something about three great lords ... when only one, Robert, kind of non-reacted to it at Harrenhal. Who were the great lords you mentioned?

The war started because Aerys killed Brandon and Rickard and then demanded the heads of Robert and Ned. It was started by Jon Arryn.

That is not so hard to understand, as there was no war yet even after Brandon and Rickard were dead. Rhaegar had nothing to do with any of that.

Sure enough - the reason why he wasn't there is very important. But it seems we kind of have a hint there already - because Aerys suspected him and the Starks to conspire against him as he did back at Harrenhal.

I think Brandon and Rickard died - and Ned and Robert were supposed to die - because the Mad King thought they were all conspiring together against him with Rhaegar as their leader. I think he didn't buy that Brandon wanted to challenge or attack Rhaegar. I think he thought this whole thing was a way to distract and confuse him while Rhaegar and Lyanna raised an army somewhere.

Only in such a scenario does it make sense that Aerys would kill Rickard - who never threatened the son he actually feared - and subsequently demand the heads of Ned and, especially, Robert (who had nothing to do with anything).

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6 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I don't think anyone is making that notion, unless I've missed a comment. Of course this is a bigger deal for the houses involved, we're just talking about the reputations of two extremely important and sweet ladies and how it would make them feel. This happened in front of...basically everyone. I know I touched on that, so I apologize if I caused any confusion. 

Rhaegar is married to Elia. So he could have talked to her both before and after the crowning. I'm sure he could have made her understand. Depending how things went with the Knight of the Laughing Tree business it might have been more Rhaegar's way to honor Lyanna's sense of chivalry and justice in the only way he could without revealing she had been the mystery knight than him expressing his feelings for her. And if that was the case, Lya would have understood the gesture, too. Might have even expected it after Rhaegar entered the lists.

After all, Elia was still pregnant with Aegon then, the promised prince wasn't born yet (but his coming heralded by the comet in the night of Aegon's conception) and Elia was also not yet incapable of giving birth to a third child.

Rhaegar and Lya may have fallen in love then. But if they did, they obviously decided not to continue things. Rhaegar only changed his mind on that, one imagines, after his wife gave birth to the promised prince (in his opinion) but was unable to give Rhaegar a third dragon head.

That would then be Lya's job for some reason.

Harrenhal is a general prelude to things to come, but only seeds were sown there. Things could have gone very differently. If Aegon had been a girl Rhaegar would have abandoned the belief that this child was the promised prince. Ditto if it had been stillborn or a miscarriage. If Elia had been able to produce a third child he may have not turned to Lyanna.

Other things also factor in - we don't know why he was in a rush to get her, why he didn't reach out to Rickard to get his permission (assuming he didn't - he might have, we don't know). And so on and so forth.

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Rhaegar is married to Elia. So he could have talked to her both before and after the crowning. I'm sure he could have made her understand. Depending how things went with the Knight of the Laughing Tree business it might have been more Rhaegar's way to honor Lyanna's sense of chivalry and justice in the only way he could without revealing she had been the mystery knight than him expressing his feelings for her. And if that was the case, Lya would have understood the gesture, too. Might have even expected it after Rhaegar entered the lists.

After all, Elia was still pregnant with Aegon then, the promised prince wasn't born yet (but his coming heralded by the comet in the night of Aegon's conception) and Elia was also not yet incapable of giving birth to a third child.

Rhaegar and Lya may have fallen in love then. But if they did, they obviously decided not to continue things. Rhaegar only changed his mind on that, one imagines, after his wife gave birth to the promised prince (in his opinion) but was unable to give Rhaegar a third dragon head.

That would then be Lya's job for some reason.

Harrenhal is a general prelude to things to come, but only seeds were sown there. Things could have gone very differently. If Aegon had been a girl Rhaegar would have abandoned the belief that this child was the promised prince. Ditto if it had been stillborn or a miscarriage. If Elia had been able to produce a third child he may have not turned to Lyanna.

Other things also factor in - we don't know why he was in a rush to get her, why he didn't reach out to Rickard to get his permission (assuming he didn't - he might have, we don't know). And so on and so forth.

I understand we don't have enough information to have solid decisions, so we're all left to decide how we think Elia felt. And I don't want to get into a long speculative debate over it, but I'm willing to share my own thoughts right here.

I personally don't believe Elia was in on any of this. Especially in regards to the crowning. Rhaegar could honor Lyanna in other ways, but this was a majorly public and political event. The crown has a very romantic symbolism in this specific context, so publicly honoring Lyanna for her prior actions doesn't fit here. This would not be the time nor place for that. Whatever his reasons were, it just ended up looking like a giant snub to Elia, and a public dedication to a mistress (who is the daughter of an important noble and betrothed to another.) Paolo Puggioni painted an illustration of The Tourney of Harrenhal, and was apparently given some instructions by GRRM on how he wanted people in the stand to be depicted. Elia was to be "stiff-backed and trying to act as if nothing is wrong." To me, that indicates she was not aware of Rhaegar's intention to crown Lyanna. And given that this act would inevitably be insulting to certain people and houses, it just seemed like a bad idea. Why do it when it's not necessary? It also worsened his relationship with his father, and effectively destroyed any chances of bringing more people to his side. This was an extremely bold move, which is why I think it was done out of romantic interests.

We also know how close Elia and Oberyn were, and Oberyn gives us the impression that Elia was treated poorly. Perhaps she would have chosen to withhold her own part of the Rhaegar/Lyanna ordeal, but I myself doubt it. Oberyn doesn't blame Rhaegar for everything, but he firmly believes that Rhaegar left her for another woman. Perhaps he knows his sister well enough to know she wouldn't agree to it. (Also, given the timeline there is reason to believe Elia did not have a proper amount of time to recover from her first birth before she conceives Aegon. But we don't have any details on consent or the lack thereof so I won't make any assumptions.)

If Rhaegar needed another child for the prophecy, he didn't necessarily need Lyanna, and he didn't need polygamy. I know most people bring up the "Lyanna=ice" example, but why would Rhaegar have any reason to believe the Starks are a representation of the element of ice? Unless I'm forgetting something. But that's a separate discussion, I suppose. He could have chosen any mistress, but he went for a high-born noble woman who happens to be betrothed. That's very very messy. Whatever children Rhaegar has with Lyanna could potentially be a threat to Elia's children. I'm all for Rhaegar assisting Lyanna in her attempt to flee from her marriage, but becoming involved with her was going too far. Maybe they were in love, maybe they weren't. Love doesn't justify irresponsible behaviors, and it doesn't justify leaving your wife and children within reach of the father you're planning to overthrow. Aerys was becoming extremely paranoid of Rhaegar, and rightfully so. Rhaegar was planning to remove his father from power, and I'm sure he knew his father suspected him of plotting something. Why leave Elia and her children within his reach? I can't believe Elia felt at all comfortable with being left there without him. Aerys was racist towards her, and I believe her children as well if I recall correctly. Perhaps he truly believed, at the time, that Aerys wouldn't harm them. But it seems as though there was a general lack of concern for Elia and the children. He kept 3 KG with Lyanna, took 3 KG with him to the Trident, and left only Jaime to guard Aerys specifically. There's no mention of Rhaegar having any sort of outrage or concern when his father took Elia and the children hostage. Aerys was willing to kill Elia and/or his grandchildren if her family stepped out of line. Elia and her babes were protected from outside forced while in the Red Keep, but she lacked protection from Aerys.

I know Rhaegar could not have foreseen everything that came to be, but if she was in on his plans I imagine she would at least be aware of their whereabouts. She should be able to communicate with them if ever necessary. War breaks out about 3-4 months (I believe?) before Elia is summoned to KL. If that's the case, the war itself would be enough reason for me (if I was Rhaegar) to start making some arrangements for her. I understand Dragonstone and the Red Keep should have been safe for her as well, but Dorne would be even safer, and she is most likely aware of this.

So my conclusion is, I think Elia was aware of Rhaegar's prophetic ambitions, and possibly supported him in it. But I don't think she was aware just how far he would go to see it done, and the affair with Lyanna took her by surprise. I don't hold Rhaegar responsible for the deaths of Elia and her children, or for the war, but I feel there was a lack of concern for their safety. Tensions were building, and things were escalating and I think there was time for Elia to heal and travel home. She would be further away from the conflict and her FIL. I don't believe Elia had any contact with Rhaegar, which is unwise on his part.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm rambling. I'm tired and not feeling well so I'm kind of all over the place. :( 

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, Rhaegar was married - to a woman he didn't love

So? You don't just get to abandon a marriage in this world because you don't love them. That's not how it works. Rhaegar would have known this. It's not like he married Elia in the first place for love anyway.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

who he could no longer have vaginal intercourse with since another pregnancy might kill her. So effectively his marriage to Elia is over insofar as marital duties in the bed chamber are concerned.

They're already married so this is irrelevant. The marriage has been consummated. Rhaegar can't end it just because he wants to.

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58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I understand we don't have enough information to have solid decisions, so we're all left to decide how we think Elia felt. And I don't want to get into a long speculative debate over it, but I'm willing to share my own thoughts right here.

I personally don't believe Elia was in on any of this. Especially in regards to the crowning. Rhaegar could honor Lyanna in other ways, but this was a majorly public and political event. The crown has a very romantic symbolism in this specific context, so publicly honoring Lyanna for her prior actions doesn't fit here. This would not be the time nor place for that. Whatever his reasons were, it just ended up looking like a giant snub to Elia, and a public dedication to a mistress (who is the daughter of an important noble and betrothed to another.) Paolo Puggioni painted an illustration of The Tourney of Harrenhal, and was apparently given some instructions by GRRM on how he wanted people in the stand to be depicted. Elia was to be "stiff-backed and trying to act as if nothing is wrong." To me, that indicates she was not aware of Rhaegar's intention to crown Lyanna. And given that this act would inevitably be insulting to certain people and houses, it just seemed like a bad idea. Why do it when it's not necessary? It also worsened his relationship with his father, and effectively destroyed any chances of bringing more people to his side. This was an extremely bold move, which is why I think it was done out of romantic interests.

I'd also not have expected that he told Elia before. But he could have told her afterwards. Thing is, there isn't really a breach between the Targaryens and Dorne over the entire Lyanna affair. There are some tensions, but if anyone had a right to go to war over anything it would have been Elia's family, not Lyanna's (if we just talk Rhaegar-Lyanna things, not the subsequent Mad King stuff).

Insofar as why it is done ... keep in mind that Rhaegar clearly didn't love Elia. Barristan's 'he was fond of her' is a euphemism for 'he didn't love her' but they got along reasonably well. But he most likely loved Lyanna, so he is expressing something that's real there. And it was obviously public because it was meant to be public even if the spectators didn't understand.

I think, though, that both the Stark and the Robert issues are not things Rhaegar could have reasonably foreseen. Most noblemen would like the idea of the Crown Prince honoring or recognizing their sister. 

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

We also know how close Elia and Oberyn were, and Oberyn gives us the impression that Elia was treated poorly. Perhaps she would have chosen to withhold her own part of the Rhaegar/Lyanna ordeal, but I myself doubt it. Oberyn doesn't blame Rhaegar for everything, but he firmly believes that Rhaegar left her for another woman. Perhaps he knows his sister well enough to know she wouldn't agree to it. (Also, given the timeline there is reason to believe Elia did not have a proper amount of time to recover from her first birth before she conceives Aegon. But we don't have any details on consent or the lack thereof so I won't make any assumptions.)

Sure enough, the whole thing wasn't nice. But that's it - it wasn't nice. How things would have been if Rhaegar had returned to court with Lyanna as his second wife we don't know - just as we don't know yet if he ever publicly revealed he had married if he did - he certainly had the time to do so in the months before his death.

Harrenhal would have been some odd slight. But then Elia gives Rhaegar a son some months later and things should be great again. The real issues start when Rhaegar and Lyanna disappear.

Elia had six months to recover from Aegon's birth - that is what makes the timeline so packed that Harrenhal has to have taken place after Aegon's conception and before his birth.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

If Rhaegar needed another child for the prophecy, he didn't necessarily need Lyanna, and he didn't need polygamy.

It depends what prophecy says. Rhaegar leaves Dragonstone after Aegon's birth and then eventually takes Lyanna. Something happened in-between, possibly some new prophetic shenanigans from the dwarf woman. Now, if she told Rhaegar point blank that Lyanna was the woman giving him another son he would go for her. That's how prophetic lunatics are wired. They think it is destiny although in that case things only would turn out that way because he was told that prophecy.

Polygamy is something that he may have thought of for two reasons. One for common decency as he wouldn't want to make Lya or any other woman his mere mistress. Also because he may have believed that 'the three heads of the dragon' wouldn't be born on the wrong side of the blanket ... just as the promised prince wouldn't be (then it would have been the 'promised bastard', after all).

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I know most people bring up the "Lyanna=ice" example, but why would Rhaegar have any reason to believe the Starks are a representation of the element of ice? Unless I'm forgetting something. But that's a separate discussion, I suppose. He could have chosen any mistress, but he went for a high-born noble woman who happens to be betrothed. That's very very messy.

Not necessarily. He is the next king, and is just a betrothal. It can be dissolved. Robert can be expected to back down. And Lord Rickard can celebrate having made a really great match there. A bit messy but hardly a huge problem.

It would have been a problem if Lya had already been married.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Whatever children Rhaegar has with Lyanna could potentially be a threat to Elia's children.

No, because primogeniture is the guiding principle in succession, not 'I'm the child of the favorite wife'.

Any problems between the half-siblings could be resolved with the traditional incest matches. And thankfully Elia produced a son and a daughter so no problems with matching them up. A son of Lya's marries Rhaenys, a daughter of Lya's marries Aegon.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I'm all for Rhaegar assisting Lyanna in her attempt to flee from her marriage, but becoming involved with her was going too far. Maybe they were in love, maybe they weren't. Love doesn't justify irresponsible behaviors, and it doesn't justify leaving your wife and children within reach of the father you're planning to overthrow.

She was on Dragonstone when he left, pretty safe. How she ended up in KL with the children we don't yet know.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Aerys was becoming extremely paranoid of Rhaegar, and rightfully so. Rhaegar was planning to remove his father from power, and I'm sure he knew his father suspected him of plotting something.

Whatever he did was done half-heartedly. Aerys was mostly paranoid.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Why leave Elia and her children within his reach? I can't believe Elia felt at all comfortable with being left there without him. Aerys was racist towards her, and I believe her children as well if I recall correctly.

Only towards the children. But Elia was Aerys' choice as a bride for Rhaegar, not Rhaegar's. So that's just him being a changeable lunatic. Like he is when he first wants Jaime as a KG and then realizes that he is afraid of Jaime the KG now.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Perhaps he truly believed, at the time, that Aerys wouldn't harm them. But it seems as though there was a general lack of concern for Elia and the children. He kept 3 KG with Lyanna, took 3 KG with him to the Trident, and left only Jaime to guard Aerys specifically. There's no mention of Rhaegar having any sort of outrage or concern when his father took Elia and the children hostage. Aerys was willing to kill Elia and/or his grandchildren if her family stepped out of line. Elia and her babes were protected from outside forced while in the Red Keep, but she lacked protection from Aerys.

We don't know how much he knew about this nor how much say he had in the matter of where the KG were going. Rhaegar seems in charge in some memories of the people involved to a point ... but he wasn't the Hand, he wasn't the regent, he wasn't the Protector of the Realm (as far as we know).

And to be sure - two or three guardsmen make little to no difference if a castle is threatened. 

Also, of course, Elia and the children might have been also hostages of Aerys' against Rhaegar. We don't know the dynamics there. However, there is a difference between Aerys writing a letter to Doran Martell reminding him that Elia and her children lived under his power ... and him actually treating his daughter-in-law and grandchildren as hostages. As far as we know they lived in the royal apartments of Maegor's Holdfast - as befits members of the royal family.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I know Rhaegar could not have foreseen everything that came to be, but if she was in on his plans I imagine she would at least be aware of their whereabouts. She should be able to communicate with them if ever necessary. War breaks out about 3-4 months (I believe?) before Elia is summoned to KL. If that's the case, the war itself would be enough reason for me (if I was Rhaegar) to start making some arrangements for her. I understand Dragonstone and the Red Keep should have been safe for her as well, but Dorne would be even safer, and she is most likely aware of this.

We don't know when or why she goes to KL. Could be because Aerys dragged her there in the wake of Rhaegar's disappearance, could be she went there to complain to the king about how Rhaegar had been treating her.

If she had wanted to go to Dorne she likely could have done so before she ended up in KL.

58 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

So my conclusion is, I think Elia was aware of Rhaegar's prophetic ambitions, and possibly supported him in it. But I don't think she was aware just how far he would go to see it done, and the affair with Lyanna took her by surprise. I don't hold Rhaegar responsible for the deaths of Elia and her children, or for the war, but I feel there was a lack of concern for their safety. Tensions were building, and things were escalating and I think there was time for Elia to heal and travel home. She would be further away from the conflict and her FIL. I don't believe Elia had any contact with Rhaegar, which is unwise on his part.

The children are only in danger after Rhaegar lost. How she felt about the Lyanna thing we just don't know. I'm not sure surprise is very likely there as she was at Harrenhal and experienced the crowning firsthand. So them ending up together might have been something she actually expected after she knew she couldn't give Rhaegar more children.

Also, we don't really know how much she cared about Rhaegar. He was only fond of her, perhaps the same goes for her? We just don't know. Assuming she loved him or cared for him deeply without knowing her is just irresponsible. There is not much substance to the character so far.

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1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Maybe. Or maybe enough time had passed by that her displeasure cooled.

Judging by their conversation in that vision, he openly talked to her about the prophecy stuff, so at the very least she knew what kind of guy she was dealing with. 

Also, GRRM has said that the relationship between Rhaegar and Elia was "complex". Whatever that means.

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26 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Judging by their conversation in that vision, he openly talked to her about the prophecy stuff, so at the very least she knew what kind of guy she was dealing with. 

Also, GRRM has said that the relationship between Rhaegar and Elia was "complex". Whatever that means.

That doesn't mean she would be ok with all of his decisions. But Barristan tells us Elia was a gracious lady with a gentle heart. And tbf, she doesn't acknowledge the prophecy in Dany's vision. All she does is ask Rhaegar if he will write a song for him, and Rhaegar inserts the prophecy. It's possible she found it off-putting, at least at first, but was kind enough to want to be supportive.

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1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Maybe. Or maybe enough time had passed by that her displeasure cooled.

Maybe, but we know there wasn’t an awful long time between the Tourney and Rhaegar disappearing, something like less than 2 months or something. 
Full disclosure, I’m in a minority who think Dany’s vision isn’t exactly what it appears to be, or that it will play out differently than most expect.

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Maybe, but we know there wasn’t an awful long time between the Tourney and Rhaegar disappearing, something like less than 2 months or something. 
Full disclosure, I’m in a minority who think Dany’s vision isn’t exactly what it appears to be, or that it will play out differently than most expect.

I thought that there was around a year between the Tourney and her disappearance?

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9 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I thought that there was around a year between the Tourney and her disappearance?

Maybe because the two events happened on different years? The tourney at the end of 281 and Rhaegar’s disappearance early on in 282?
 

The tourney happened towards the end of the year, during the false spring, but the false spring was short lived. With the new year, winter came back and Rhaegar was gone.

TWoIaF, The Year of the False Spring

 

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King’s Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city.
As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon’s turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.”

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I thought that there was around a year between the Tourney and her disappearance?

I've seen a couple different timelines mapped out by different people. One said that Harrenhal Tourney would have taken place in Nov 281 AC, Aegon born that Dec, and Lyanna and Rhaegar meet in Jan 282 AC.

Another said Harrenhal took place Mar-Apr 281 AC, Elia gives birth Jan 282 AC, Rhaegar and Lyanna meet up between Feb-Mar. This one doesn't make sense to me given Elia's pregnancy.

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1 minute ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I've seen a couple different timelines mapped out by different people. One said that Harrenhal Tourney would have taken place in Nov 281 AC, Aegon born that Dec, and Lyanna and Rhaegar meet in Jan 282 AC.

Another said Harrenhal took place Mar-Apr 281 AC, Elia gives birth Jan 282 AC, Rhaegar and Lyanna meet up between Feb-Mar. This one doesn't make sense to me given Elia's pregnancy.

I don’t think that works w/ what little we know of the tourney and the false spring. 

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39 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

How do you mean?

 

30 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Yeah I wanna know too hehe!

Nothing much, really. I wasn’t clear before due to extreme laziness so my post wasn’t very clear. A long time ago I thought maybe it wasn’t Rhaegar and Elia, but that’s been sort of confirmed. 
About it not playing out as expected I meant more that I don’t think it will have a very significant impact on the story. I don’t know, it feels like one of those things where Martin might have had something in mind for but gardened away from over time. 

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