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Do you agree that Cersei Lannister is Inconsistently Heinous?


boltons are sick
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For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way.

Cersei is listed on the Inconsistently Heinous wiki due to her many redeeming and sympathetic qualities as well as the fact that her character is way too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil. Near Pure Evil characters can have some tragedies, but they shouldn't be too tragic like Cersei or otherwise they get listed as Inconsistently Heinous. To give you an idea about this wiki, the only other character from the books who is listed as Inconsistently Heinous is Tyrion Lannister because he, just like Cersei, has too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities to be Near Pure Evil. Other popular character from fiction who are listed as Inconsistently Heinous are Darth Vader from Star Wars, Walter White from Breaking Bad, the Joker from the 2019 film (most versions of the Joker are Pure Evil but this one is way too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil), Eren Yeager from Attack on Titan and others.

Here is a list of the reasons why Cersei has too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and is too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil which is copied and pasted from her page on the wiki:

  • She loves her family members except for Tyrion (more specifically, her children,her father, Tywin and her mother, Joanna). She is very protective of her children, doesn't want them to die and constantly fears for their safety.
    • When her son Joffrey dies, she breaks down over his corpse and cries and then she stays with his corpse and mourns it for days. At one point, she has a nice dream where Joffrey is still alive and she marries her brother, Jaime.
    • She is angry when Tyrion sends her daughter, Myrcella, to Dorn without her permission and starts threatening him. She breaks down into tears when he mentions that if Myrcella stays, she could be killed in the coming battle. She is also shocked when she learns that Myrcella has lost one of her ears.
    • In the fourth book she gets very protective of her son, Tommen, after the death of Joffrey. When Tommen chokes on his wine, she is afraid that someone had poisoned him, quickly stands up and goes to him to help. When she discovers that no one has poisoned him, she goes away and starts crying. During her imprisonment by the Faith Militant, she constantly thinks about her son and how she wants to go back to him. When she goes back to him, she starts spending a lot more time with him than ever before because she was relieved to see him again after her long imprisonment.
    • At one point, she had a nightmare where Tyrion has tied her up. She begs him to spare her kids, even though in the dream her own life is in danger.
    • She loves her father as she wants his respect, constantly thinks about what he would do and is sad when he dies.
    • She loves her mother. She blames her younger brother, Tyrion, for "killing" her mother because this is what she saw from her father. She also mentions to Sansa that when she was a little girl she prayed to the Gods to give her mother back.
  • Cersei is too tragic to be Near Pure Evil:
    • She lost her mother at the age of 7 which has left her traumatized.
    • At the age of 10, Cersei received a prophecy from Maggy that all of her kids would die, that a younger and more baeutiful queen would take everything she holds dear and then Cersei herself would be killed by her younger brother. This made Cersei very paranoid about her life and the lives of her children, made her even more abusive towards Tyrion because she believes that he is the younger brother from the prophecy and caused her to become distrustful towards most other people. A lot of the crimes she commits are an attempt to prevent this prophecy from happening and saving her children and herself.
    • Her father Tywin was neglectful most of the time, barely displayed any parental love aside from a few occasions and he was a brutal ruler who taught his kids that they should be merciless, that they shouldn't care about morality only about the end results and that they should look down on small folk or anyone who isn't a Lannister. He is also strict with his expectations of her and doesn't allow her to deviate in any way from what he envisions her to be but at the same time he never disciplines her on how she should treat other people properly, never corrects her behaviour and even makes her believe that her younger brother Tyrion "killed" her mother due to simply being born which causes her to hate him. Even after she becomes a Queen, he still acts in a controlling way towards her and orders her around despite the fact she outranks him, doesn't seem to care a lot about how her husband treats her or if she is happy with her life, doesn't take her opinions into consideration most of the time and tries to force her into a second marriage despite Cersei's immense displeasure, which would also deprive her of her position as regent to King Joffrey and force her into another position where she is a powerless housewife to someone else, just because Tywin wants to increase his own power with him possibly even wanting to take the regency for himself away from Cersei. Her upbringing as Tywin's daughter causes her to have a very warped view of the world and because she feels unappreciated by her father and suffers from insecurities, she tries to emulate him in any way she can to win his approval.
    • She was married to Robert Baratheon, who cheated on her and abused her by sometimes even raping her which also has an affect on her because she feels powerless during the rapes and she doesn't want this to happen again. The affect the rapes have on her is displayed when she tries to force herself on another woman because she wants to feel powerful and learn what Robert has felt when he had done that to her but stops at the last moment because she realizes she doesn't feel enjoyment and just feels empty.
    • In the world of Westeros if it's discovered that she had cheated on her husband with Jaime, she and all of her kids would be executed while her husband also cheats on her all the time with dozens of different women which displays the double standards of Westerosi laws. The reason why she kills Robert and Ned is because she wants to protect her life and the life of her kids from execution.
    • In general, she has suffered from systematic sexism throughout her whole life starting from childhood because she was born in a highly sexist society where women are inferior to men and she and Jaime were treated differently because of their gender. Jaime was groomed to become the heir to Casterly Rock and was taught how to rule and fight while she was groomed to be married off and be a housewife despite being older than her brother. When she was married to her husband, she also suffered from the sexism of her society because her husband was allowed to cheat on her while if she was caught cheating, she and her entire family would be executed. She was also raped because there was no definition of marital rape in Westeros.
  • She suffers from a lot of insecurities (about being a woman, winning her father's approval, being fit to rule, etc.). She also has insecurities about not having any friends and she immediately decides to befriend the first woman she meets in the fourth book simply because she doesn't want to feel lonely.
  • On one occasion, after Ned gives her a chance to escape with her children from the city before he reports to Robert that she had been cheating on him, Cersei tells him that because of this she would allow him to go back to Winterfell and live out the rest of his life if he kneels to Joffrey and swears fealty to him. Ned doesn't do it and he ends up dead for this reason, but there is no indication Cersei wouldn't have kept her word if he had accepted and she still doesn't agree with Joffrey executing him.
  • Even though she is rude to Sansa, she still tries to give her advice about how to rule as a Queen, about the specifics of the female body and that she shouldn't love too many people or else she would get hurt. It's implied that the reason for this is because Cersei sees Sansa as a younger and more inexperienced version of herself. While, Cersei lates desires to execute Sansa because she believes that Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death, it doesn't entirely subvert her prevention because during her Walk of Shame, she still noticebly feels bad about how things turned out and that Cersei could have provided a good marriage for her if Joffrey hadn't beheaded her father. Sansa is also one of the people Cersei hallucinates about which indicates that she feels guilty about how she treated her
  • She is capable of feeling remorse on certain occasions. After the torture of the Blue Bard, she feels bad for him and tries to justify herself even if she doesn't take moral responsibility for what she did, and for a moment she even considers stopping his torture.
  • She is also played for sympathy a lot as shown by the above examples. Aside from the examples that are already mentioned, during the Walk of Shame when she paraded naked through the streets of the city and the common people throw things at her, the story tries to frame the moment as an "Alas. Poor Villain" by presenting it from Cersei's point of view, presenting it in excrusiating detail, showing how it affects her psyche. The story clearly tries to make the readers feel bad for her during this chapter.

So, do you agree with the decision to list Cersei as Inconsistently Heinous or not?

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We have a record, it seems.

43 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:
  • She is capable of feeling remorse on certain occasions. After the torture of the Blue Bard, she feels bad for him and tries to justify herself even if she doesn't take moral responsibility for what she did, and for a moment she even considers stopping his torture.

You will probably remember this, but it bears repeating, given your insistence.

Cersei feels NO REMORSE about the horrible torture the Blue Bard goes through because of her, her narcissism and her malignancy. Not only does she not feel remorse for it, but she makes it about herself and blames Margaery for "making her do it". Her actions are vile, disgusting, repulsive, w/o one iota of remorse. 

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2 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains

Seriously?  Whom at this board does not this?  We all know this.  You may not know this but cutting and pasting the OP is lazy and boring.  Good grief, write something of you own.

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No, I don't. I comment why in another thread of yours so I'm gonna repost here.

 

If there is a moment in which it can be said that Cersei Lannister is a bad person it is when it comes to Melara.

We have a ten-year-old Cersei who has just heard a witch prophesy that she will have a very tragic future. It's completely understandable that the girl would be scared, it would be believable for her to look for someone she trusts to tell her about it (Jaime or Aunt Genna), but it's also believable for her to stay silent because she doesn't want anyone else to know about it. Over time, she could have nightmares, become depressed or have tantrums, become paranoid, in short, all the common behavior of someone who has gone through a traumatic experience.

But the Cersei who threw her friend into the well is not the adult Cersei from AFFC who has had a whole life to feed fear and paranoia. She was a child who shortly after visiting Maggy and still thinking the old witch was bluffing, chose to deal with what she had heard by KILLING A PERSON. Cersei pushed a girl her own age, her companion, into a well and stood close enough to hear the girl scream for help until she died. The only way a child would have the urge to do such a thing is if she had serious character defects. Because of this, nothing convinces me that Cersei did all or most of the biggest atrocities she did because of her traumas, she is evil.

Edited by Odej
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No, she belongs in the same category as Tywin, the Near Pure Evil one. She is too consistent...to be on a non-consistent list, lol. She is consistently selfish, consistently disregards others lives, consistently controlling of her children, and consistently careless about ordering horrible things to be done to others for her selfish reasons. 

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Already a thread on this topic.

  • Cersei murdered babies
  • No there is no excuse for that
  • I don't care if they live in a sexist society, doesn't excuse the killing, no other women in the story act that way
  • Cersei tortured baby Tyrion, killed her friend, sends people to Qyburn etc. et al points that were repeated over and over again in the other threads
  • Who gives a damn that she felt sorry after having someone tortured? So? She still had the guy tortured, shows you how much she really is sorry
  • Cersei was not entitled to murder anyone because you don't get to murder to cover up your own crimes
  • Etc. all the point that were repeated before

Cersei is a nasty piece of work through and through and I hope she gets her just desserts.

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The 'arguments' being applied to try and excuse Cersei are honestly so stupid.

No, I don't think Chairman Mao was that bad, because he allowed the Chinese to criticise the CCP during the Hundred Flowers Movement. Yeah, he had them shot or put in concentration camps after, but it's the thought that counts, right?

:rolleyes:

Edited by Craving Peaches
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