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Nymor letter theories


KingAerys_II
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Aegon kinslayer, Aegon infertile theories

The lord of Stormlands and Reach wanted revenge.
Orys Baratheon suggested to remove Deria right hand, instead Lord Oakheart wanted Aegon to sell her into sex slavery
Lord Cafferen suffered the heinous acts made by Lord Wyl too, a Tyrell disappeared around Hellholt, an Hightower died during Joffrey Dayne attempt to sack Oldtown.
I don't think Aegon vassals cared so much about a burned corpse, of course they didn't care about Aenys rumors at court that speculated he was fathered by a singer, something no one is able to confirm after Maegor birth.
So the theories "Aegon infertile", "Aegon kinslayer" are impossible to confirm, confessions of Rhaenys under torture could be labeled as constructed plots.

"Rhaenys broken and mutilated and the dornishmen promise to put an end out of her misery"theory has no sense because Aegon and Aenys were invited to celebrate the feast for peace in Sunspear. I don't think Aenys would meet the people that tortured and murdered his mother, whose death caused his mental breakdown.

Then there is "the magic spell" in the letter using Rhaenys blood, that's ridiculous.

Why the theory of the Faceless Men is completely out of rails:

Threat of the letter.

Aenys dies for any reason.

The Doom of Bravoos (Balerion and Vhagar)

It has more sense that Meria and Ullers tortured Rhaenys , Deria and Nymor hired assassins to rescue her, the four consecutive Ullers died because of Nymor assassins, it is stated that only two assassins survived to receive the ransom:the assassins of Lady Toland and Lord Fowler.

So they rescued her and she was shipped to Dragonstone to receive the gift of mercy by Aegon himself, Rhaenys convinced Aegon to stop the devastation that almost annihilated the entire dornish population

 

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37 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Why would Deria and Nymor work against their house head?

The same reason why some dornish people warned Jaehaerys about Morion attack, If the house head is a cruel idiot who was ready to sacrifice the own population just to show to be strong, I think it's not impossible the heirs tried to remove Meria. She already attempted to invade the Stormlands and was rejected by Argillac

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Actually, I think that letter thing is just a pretty bad plot device George came up to 'explain' why Aegon the Conqueror (and his successors) didn't crush Dorne after the death of Rhaenys and Meraxes.

It explains nothing and it is a pretty bad mystery as even the most informed reader of the ASoIaF texts cannot come up with an even remotely plausible or convincing idea about the contents for that letter. Any suggestions I have read or come up with myself so far are pretty bad and wouldn't make much sense in a realistic scenario. (And even less so the scenario that Aegon could force through a peace agreement without explanation! Especially after what happened to Orys Baratheon's hand and Queen Rhaenys.)

In fact, the best 'explanation' is actually the silly idea the letter successfully bewitched Aegon.

Personal issues aside, Aegon's resources were far from spent as there is no indication any of his campaigns throughout the Dornish War even involved men from the West, the Riverlands, the Vale, or the North. Thus too much loss of life or resources on his side couldn't have possibly convinced him that the war wasn't worth the effort. 

And if we consider personal issues then the death of Rhaenys and the loss of Meraxes as well as the mutilation of Orys alone are slights he could hardly let stand without losing face with his lords. This is hardly something he could or would let go. We can almost say that a Red Wedding stands between the Targaryens and the Martells in 14 AC, and thus there is little chance for a peace without submission. Aegon does have all the cards, and nothing the Martells can do or say should be able to change that.

Which is why the letter is a pretty bad plot device. A good one would allow us to come up with a number of convincing theories to fill the blanks. But here there just are no convincing theories.

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I don't like any of the "official" explanations, and I'm not fond of what seems to be the most popular fan one either (i.e. that the Dornish had identified Aenys was not Aegon's son and threatened to expose this).

The only other thing I can think of is that they had somehow come up with a reliable way of killing dragons, and threatened to unleash this unless Aegon called off his attack. His journey back to Dragonstone may have been something to do with this, to check on the eggs and hatchlings there; perhaps the Dornish even offered proof and he went to investigate.

It's still not great and leaves a lot of unanswered questions but it's also the kind of thing that could conceivably be revealed later in the story, since there are points to be addressed about both the origin of dragons and the reasons for their decline, and depending what those were, it could conceivably explain Aegon's reluctance to risk his dragons in a continued war with Dorne.

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7 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

The same reason why some dornish people warned Jaehaerys about Morion attack, If the house head is a cruel idiot who was ready to sacrifice the own population just to show to be strong, I think it's not impossible the heirs tried to remove Meria. She already attempted to invade the Stormlands and was rejected by Argillac

But Meria wasn't Morion. She's even somewhat of a hero of the people by this point.

Besides:

  1. Why would Meria leave Rhaenys at Helholt instead of bringing a prisoner as valuable as an enemy queen to Sunspear?
  2. Why would Meria work with the Ullers instead of her own family? Even if there was a reasonable reason, why did she not at least arrange things so that Nymor and Deria won't take hostile action against her and the Ullers?
  3. Who could have Nymor and Deria hired underneath the Yellow Toad's nose that dared to carry out the hits anyway?
1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

The only other thing I can think of is that they had somehow come up with a reliable way of killing dragons, and threatened to unleash this unless Aegon called off his attack.

Water magic yay.

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The way of killing dragons has no sense, every threat to Aegon has no sense, because it is stated Aegon had good relations with Deria and he celebrated the feast of peace in Sunspear, I don't think Aenys would meet people that killed his mother and threatened his family. 

If the dornishmen were able to use something dragons, why didn't they use the dragon wroth? It has no sense. 

I think Rhaenys was kept captive in Sunspear where she was torture by some Uller torturer. 

The theory must explain the following points:

1.Aegon had good relations with Deria, he and Aenys celebrated a feast for peace in Sunspear just after Rhaena birth. 

2. Aegon clenched the letter so hard his hand is bleeding (the letter reveals Meria, who is dead, tortured his sister who was alive). 

3.Aegon flies to Dragonstone for some reason. (Rhaenys shipped to Dragonstone, she was in a brutal state, however she is able to explain her journey in Dorne to Aegon).

4.Her body was never recovered. (she is euthanized by Aegon and her body is burned as tradition) 

5.The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers. It has no sense that an entire Tyrell army was no able to catch them and some people hired by the Iron Throne were able to murder 4 consecutive Lord of Hellholt in the desert. It was effective against the Ullers that were the lords that could have Rhaenys alive. 

Edited by KingAerys_II
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1 minute ago, SaffronLady said:

Because water magic, like fire magic, is blood magic too?

I'm sorry it has no sense, if they have such power, Doran doesn't need Fire and Blood for vengeance against the Lannisters, don't you think? There are no accounts of water magic used as a weapon in Dorne, they waited their country became a blasting ruin with plague and famine. 

 

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10 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

I'm sorry it has no sense, if they have such power, Doran doesn't need Fire and Blood for vengeance against the Lannisters, don't you think? There are no accounts of water magic used as a weapon in Dorne, they waited their country became a blasting ruin with plague and famine. 

I think you're missing out on the price of power part of the entire problem.

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It is stated Nymor wanted peace, so if Dorne had some powerful magic spell, Meria would have used it, she was a belligerent woman, after all. 

The magic water theory doesn't explain the points I have previously exposed, they are important clues for reconstruction of the facts I wrote. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

Dorne is short of major rivers so the water magic is of limited effectiveness in defending Dorne. But it would be very effective if used offensively against Dragonstone. 

If Meria didn't use it, it means they had no such power, she had a Morion personality, the children of the forest did something like that, the First Men killed all them. 

There is not mentions of water walls and other stuff during the first dornish war, the Conquest of Dorne during Daeron I reign, if they are so powerful, I don't understand why they fear Ser Gregor and Armory Lorch so much

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They didn't use this magic to prevent the devastation during the dragon wroth. 

Dragonstone is important for dragons, but they can survive without living on it, Daenerys dragons never lived in Dragonstone and they grow very quickly. 

About the dragon eggs, the author stated that Targaryens dragon come from Vhagar, Meraxes and Balerion, so if Quicksilver or Vhagar survives, one of them could produce eggs. Lots of dragons hatched in King's Landing, Vermithor and Silverwing hatched in the Jaehaerys and Alysanne cradles

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5 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

It is stated Nymor wanted peace, so if Dorne had some powerful magic spell, Meria would have used it, she was a belligerent woman, after all. 

That's why my theory was she can't and not she didn't want to.

5 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

The magic water theory doesn't explain the points I have previously exposed, they are important clues for reconstruction of the facts I wrote. 

You filled in the points with too much guesswork. For example, why Aegon was angry at the letter. He was a taciturn person with few friends and probably only one lover. Even a letter that just confirms Rhaenys is dead would probably make him angry.

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17 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

That's why my theory was she can't and not she didn't want to.

You filled in the points with too much guesswork. For example, why Aegon was angry at the letter. He was a taciturn person with few friends and probably only one lover. Even a letter that just confirms Rhaenys is dead would probably make him angry.

The water magic theory has no sense, they never used it against Balerion who was annihilating the entire population. Of course the water wizards are not able to control sea water, Mother Rhoyne is the Goddess of rivers

Edited by KingAerys_II
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4 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

The water magic theory has no sense, they never used it against Balerion who was annihilation the entire population. Of course the water wizards are not able to control sea water, Mother Rhoyne is the Goddess of rivers

Look, first things first, it is fucking rude to say someone is not making sense when one is making sense. Magic is dangerous and highly conditional in Planetos, so it stands that there are many, many reasons the Dornish weren't using it even if they still remember.

Secondly, you are making less sense by employing way too much guesswork in why Aegon the Dragon reacted the way he did regarding the events leading to peace with Dorne.

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