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US Politics: Shutdown Showdown


Tywin et al.
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8 hours ago, mormont said:

He also looks like he doesn't know where he is. As does Trump. If you're looking for a candidate who does look like he's fully compos mentis, it's Biden. Put aside the age prejudice, because they're all old. The question is, which of them is not both old and insane? Biden.

My keyboard ran out of H's and A's.

Biden was a corrupt mediocrity when he had what passed for his fastball.  (Senator from MBNA was from the left.  He hasn't gotten cleaner since then by any report, but Biden still won the most ballots in US history.  God bless our fair elections!)  The winds seem to be blowing that Biden is about to get thrown overboard so I can't wait until you and I are on the same Biden was bad page.

I understand @mormont that we don't agree politically.  But if you think Biden is of sound mind, then I have to either question how you view reality or where your shame line is as far as deception for the cause goes. If you don't need to eat, drive, heat your home, or protect yourself then mayhaps Biden's appeal grows.

Also @mormont what's the sharpest thing Biden has said in 2023?  Just curious.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Rep. Talib has been censured. I'm surprised 22 Democrats voted with Republicans to do so.  

Sounds to me that at least 10% of Dem reps think they have to face fair elections in their home district.  Or at least don't want to go on record for supporting genocide of Jews in an election cycle.  

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Takeaways from elections in Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky and more

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/politics/takeaways-election-day/index.html

Quote

 

In Arizona, activists are gathering signatures for a 2024 ballot initiative that will ask voters a similar question to Ohio’s this year – a development that already has Republicans there fretting.

“Tonight’s results in Ohio should scare every Republican in a state where an abortion question is on the ballot in 2024,” Arizona Republican strategist Barrett Marson told CNN. “Abortion initiatives are both driving turnout among Democrats and forcing Republicans to talk about an issue of which they are on the wrong side of the electorate.”

A handful of potential swing states, including Pennsylvania, Iowa, Florida and Colorado, could have abortion rights measures on their ballots alongside the presidential candidates next year.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

My keyboard ran out of H's and A's.

Biden was a corrupt mediocrity when he had what passed for his fastball.  (Senator from MBNA was from the left.  He hasn't gotten cleaner since then by any report, but Biden still won the most ballots in US history.  God bless our fair elections!)  The winds seem to be blowing that Biden is about to get thrown overboard so I can't wait until you and I are on the same Biden was bad page.

I understand @mormont that we don't agree politically.  But if you think Biden is of sound mind, then I have to either question how you view reality or where your shame line is as far as deception for the cause goes. If you don't need to eat, drive, heat your home, or protect yourself then mayhaps Biden's appeal grows.

Also @mormont what's the sharpest thing Biden has said in 2023?  Just curious.

Sounds to me that at least 10% of Dem reps think they have to face fair elections in their home district.  Or at least don't want to go on record for supporting genocide of Jews in an election cycle.  

From where I am standing, Biden is both sane and competent, as testified to by his string of bipartisan accomplishments these past few years - everything from the vaccine rollout to the first serious infrastructure bill in recent history to the CHIP act to successful (if modest) gun control measures. Unlike republicans, he at least attempted a border strategy that wasn't completely fascist. And he did tackle the fraudulent student loan program issue.

Republicans, though, don't seem to offer anything genuinely positive merely ever-growing lists of people they hate from migrants to gays to scientists to teachers to liberals, and increasingly, voters. 

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4 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

From where I am standing, Biden is both sane and competent, as testified to by his string of bipartisan accomplishments these past few years - everything from the vaccine rollout to the first serious infrastructure bill in recent history to the CHIP act to successful (if modest) gun control measures. Unlike republicans, he at least attempted a border strategy that wasn't completely fascist. And he did tackle the fraudulent student loan program issue.

Republicans, though, don't seem to offer anything genuinely positive merely ever-growing lists of people they hate from migrants to gays to scientists to teachers to liberals, and increasingly, voters. 

Yeah, every time I see him speak now, I do worry about his age, because he looks old and tired. But what he says is sound, and what he's done given the cards he's been dealt is commendable. 

Go VA! Women in the south have at least one state of refuge.

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10 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Yeah, every time I see him speak now, I do worry about his age, because he looks old and tired. But what he says is sound, and what he's done given the cards he's been dealt is commendable. 

Right?

Also, I wonder how you make the argument to elderly Americans, who really, really vote, that a candidate is just too old?

If Biden starts talking about alien invasions ala Ronald Reagan, I'll worry about his age; until then, I'll assume he's just an old but capable president.

Edited to add: Democrats have won the PA Supreme Court seat. They already had a 4-2 majority, but you know what's better than 4-2? 5-2.

Edited by TrackerNeil
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1 minute ago, TrackerNeil said:

If Biden starts talking about alien invasions ala Ronald Reagan, I'll worry about his age; until then, I'll assume he's just an old but capable president.

Hey, that was actually a point in Reagan's favor! Gorbachev was puzzled, but it did lead Reagan to work with the Soviets, so if anything it was one of the few good things he did.

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Each time I feel the Democrats are gonna get curb stomped in the elections, the Republicans manage to outdo themselves in their overreach (in all the abortion legislation they've passed) or in the general paucity of ideas that actually help voters. I still feel when Trump is on the ballot in 2024 things will get tighter since he manages to draw out people who dont vote in off-election years, but at least I feel a bit better about the D's chances.

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3 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Each time I feel the Democrats are gonna get curb stomped in the elections, the Republicans manage to outdo themselves in their overreach (in all the abortion legislation they've passed) or in the general paucity of ideas that actually help voters. I still feel when Trump is on the ballot in 2024 things will get tighter since he manages to draw out people who dont vote in off-election years, but at least I feel a bit better about the D's chances.

Trump does draw out people who hate being called on their racist bullshit… doesn’t he?

:shocked:

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1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Each time I feel the Democrats are gonna get curb stomped in the elections, the Republicans manage to outdo themselves in their overreach (in all the abortion legislation they've passed) or in the general paucity of ideas that actually help voters. I still feel when Trump is on the ballot in 2024 things will get tighter since he manages to draw out people who dont vote in off-election years, but at least I feel a bit better about the D's chances.

I agree, and there is a concomitant concern that continues to gnaw at me: I am not sure if the general electorate would reject a savvier and more subtle variation of MAGA. Should Republicans ever go back to picking bare-minimum passable politicians (like a Glen Youngkin or a Pence) rather than opting for the clown car of chaos, I think they could easily win. So I guess for now it's fortunate that MAGA is anything but subtle in its decadence, nihilism, and authoritarian control.

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I have a question about Trump’s draw. I get that one the one hand he has the diehard MAGA crowd who’ll follow him no matter what. When his 1st criminal indictment was announced #Trump2024NowMoreThanEver was actually trending on Ex-Twitter.

On the other hand though I have seen many analysts and pundits and news anchors make the point that he does better (in polls and such) when he’s not too much in everyone’s face. And that the more people, even normie republicans, see and hear his lies, his demented statements, his incoherence, his hyperbolic statements, etc, etc, the more turned off by him they are. And he’ll very much be in everyone’s face 24/7 for possibly the whole year from now to Election Day, and that will ultimately hurt him.

Does this track? It feels true enough, but curious to hear what people think.

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29 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

If Biden starts talking about alien invasions ala Ronald Reagan, I'll worry about his age; until then, I'll assume he's just an old but capable president.

Biden's Administration confirmed the existence of UFOs. Clearly he's just priming us for their impending takeover. 

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6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I have a question about Trump’s draw. I get that one the one hand he has the diehard MAGA crowd who’ll follow him no matter what. When his 1st criminal indictment was announced #Trump2024NowMoreThanEver was actually trending on Ex-Twitter.

On the other hand though I have seen many analysts and pundits and news anchors make the point that he does better (in polls and such) when he’s not too much in everyone’s face. And that the more people, even normie republicans, see and hear his lies, his demented statements, his incoherence, his hyperbolic statements, etc, etc, the more turned off by him they are. And he’ll very much be in everyone’s face 24/7 for possibly the whole year from now to Election Day, and that will ultimately hurt him.

Does this track? It feels true enough, but curious to hear what people think.

Yes, it tracks. At least for swingable voters and independents. That's why I think those recent polls that show Biden doing poorly (while not good news, as they indicate dissatisfaction) would look totally different with Trump back in the spotlight of an election. If you're not part of the Trump cult, and you're not part of the "But I'm a Republican" soft-cult, Trump is at best fucking wearying, and at worst fucking terrifying.

Edit: Despite my soft confidence, the size of those two Trump groups and the electoral college makes it all too close for comfort. We can't be complacent about anything. The recent polls provide a snapshot of all the ground that has to be made before the election.

Edited by Phylum of Alexandria
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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I have a question about Trump’s draw. I get that one the one hand he has the diehard MAGA crowd who’ll follow him no matter what. When his 1st criminal indictment was announced #Trump2024NowMoreThanEver was actually trending on Ex-Twitter.

On the other hand though I have seen many analysts and pundits and news anchors make the point that he does better (in polls and such) when he’s not too much in everyone’s face. And that the more people, even normie republicans, see and hear his lies, his demented statements, his incoherence, his hyperbolic statements, etc, etc, the more turned off by him they are. And he’ll very much be in everyone’s face 24/7 for possibly the whole year from now to Election Day, and that will ultimately hurt him.

Does this track? It feels true enough, but curious to hear what people think.

Of course it does, to some degree.  But there are probably plenty of republicans that can't stand Trump but vote for him anyway because he's more likely to deliver on what they want than any Democrat.

I know plenty of Dem voters who make the same calculus (in fact, I'd say our system relies on this to function). I think Joe Biden is a despicable old ghoul but I'll vote for him because he's more likely to support policy I'd like to see than any Republican candidate.

We can't coherently make this ethical compromise on the left and vote for whatever sack of garbage the Dems drag out every 4 years and then be surprised when half the GOP leaning voters do the same on the right.  

Edited by Larry of the Lawn
Staying on point
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10 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

We can't coherently make this ethical compromise on the left and vote for whatever sack of garbage the Dems drag out every 4 years and then be surprised when half the GOP leaning voters do the same on the right.  

You can when there is no comparison between the Democrat and the Republican, as there was in 2020 and, likely, will be in 2024. Yes, I am arguing exceptionalism, which I think is appropriate for the first president to be impeached twice, and the first ex-president to face criminal indictments.

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5 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

You can when there is no comparison between the Democrat and the Republican, as there was in 2020 and, likely, will be in 2024. Yes, I am arguing exceptionalism, which I think is appropriate for the first president to be impeached twice, and the first ex-president to face criminal indictments.

Yeah, the political calculus has completely broken down with most Republicans, save for the big business execs and the abortion fanatics. Trump violated every other stated value they ever advanced, and they resort to fantastical imaginings of how much of a dangerous radical left commie Biden is in order to rationalize voting for the awful autocrat and his clown car of chaos.

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One thing that is becoming more and more clear is that the best strategy for Candidate Trump and the best strategy for Defendant Trump are very much at odds with one another.  Candidate Trump embraces bullying and that the rules don't apply to me.  For a defendant in a courtroom, that is a disastrous approach.  But we're already seeing that when facing a choice between sound legal strategy and what plays well to the MAGA crowd, Trump will listen to his gut and not his lawyers.  That makes him prevailing in the courtroom less likely.  His legal strategy is increasingly boiling down to "become President and then the convictions don't matter".  Which could work, but it carries significant risks for him personally and obvious huge costs for the country as a whole (not that he gives a shit). 

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59 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

I'm ready to give the Reticulans a try at running things. 

I'm more in favor of letting the Omicronians having a go at it, so long as we get to eat their young.  

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