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Israel - Hamas War X


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After 3 days of searching, this is what they show us?  An infographic that claims 4 Hamas underground complexes, and a Command and Control Center, yet not one single photo or video of any of these things.  Have they really not found anything substantial to support their claim that the well known HQ is actually under the hospital?  

I'm really having a hard time understanding why a well known HQ made up of an extensive series of tunnels and underground structures, the locations of which they have already identified on maps and in 3d animations, is so hard to find.

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8 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Tragically, another of the premature babies has reportedly passed away.

These are avoidable tragedies.  The IDF needs to wrap up their search if they can't find anything in the next day or two so that the hospital staff can take care of their patients.  The raid is now 3 days and counting, and treating patients was already hard enough without being placed essentially under lockdown by the IDF.  

The systematic takedown of the healthcare system in Gaza, along with the destruction, disruption or blockade of the most basic necessities like food, shelter, and water, and then the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of civilians to areas under active bombardment, boggles the mind.  How is this not impermissible collective punishment?

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3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I have no idea why you say I refuse to admit both scenarios are entirely different since I have admitted to being wrong many times before, in these very threads. 

And here's another such instance, yes, the situations are very different indeed, you did a good job at pointing the obvious flaw in how the question was phrased and why the 2 situations can't be compared. 

At any rate, we do know how this Israeli government would act if they had their own people being used as shields of sorts b/c that's what the hostages are, and they're being bombed relentlessly. 

It's not the own you think it is to acknowledge your obligations to your citizens being held by an enemy state are different than your obligations to citizens of an enemy state that are being hid behind to continue to shoot rockets at you and hold your citizens hostage. Under international law you must do your best to minimize civilian casualties, but it becomes more difficult when an enemy state cynically turns its own civilians into military infrastructure and usage. The denial of this reality is widespread. The Allies did much worse to a German population that the Nazi military was not hiding behind to such an extent. Hamas have the same goals as the Nazis re: Jews, nevermind the world. They may not have the means to accomplish it now, which is why it is important to stop them before their allies help them acquire more of the means to do so.

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1 hour ago, Mudguard said:
this is what they show us? 

I find it strange that people want and expect live updates during a hot war. Does TMZ need a military coverage wing now?

43 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

These are avoidable tragedies. 

Equally avoidable if Hamas actually did the basic thing of using their supplies to help their citizens. Do you not see how it's weird that Israel is expected to take better care of Palestinians than their own government? And again, this was all avoidable if Hamas didn't murder over 1,200 people and take hundreds of hostages. Then use their own people as human shields. 

Edited by Tywin et al.
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35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Do you not see how it's weird that Israel is expected to take better care of Palestinians than their own government?

Given Hamas is a terrorist group, what is weird about expecting a modern state that is supposed to comply with international law and human rights to treat civilians better than a terrorist group? If Hamas was a non-terrorist government I would be less confused but given they are extremists I don't see why it is weird.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

The systematic takedown of the healthcare system in Gaza, along with the destruction, disruption or blockade of the most basic necessities like food, shelter, and water, and then the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of civilians to areas under active bombardment, boggles the mind.  How is this not impermissible collective punishment?

Oh, come on. This is most probably the most obvious attempt at ethnic cleansing since the Armenian genocide more than a century ago. Why are people actually surprised by that kind of things, when it's clear that it's deliberate and done on purpose?

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I find it strange that people want and expect live updates during a hot war. Does TMZ need a military coverage wing now?

Equally avoidable if Hamas actually did the basic thing of using their supplies to help their citizens. Do you not see how it's weird that Israel is expected to take better care of Palestinians than their own government? And again, this was all avoidable if Hamas didn't murder over 1,200 people and take hundreds of hostages. Then use their own people as human shields. 

Giving daily updates is the entire job of the IDF PR department.  This is standard and has been something they've been doing since day one, so no idea why you'd find it strange.  Given their performance though, I do understand why you'd suggest TMZ being an upgrade.

What's weird to me is that some people don't seem to expect that Israel conducts its war in a human manner, or just hand wave away all the highly problematic conduct with the excuse that, well, Hamas started it so everything is all their fault.  Yes, Hamas committed a major atrocity on Oct. 7th, but Israel is completely responsible for its own actions in response.

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49 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Given Hamas is a terrorist group, what is weird about expecting a modern state that is supposed to comply with international law and human rights to treat civilians better than a terrorist group? If Hamas was a non-terrorist government I would be less confused but given they are extremists I don't see why it is weird.

Hamas is both a terrorist group and the active government of Gaza. People seem to conveniently forget the latter part. Placing no standards on them when they created this mess while expecting Israel to act perfectly is indeed weird. 

7 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Giving daily updates is the entire job of the IDF PR department.  This is standard and has been something they've been doing since day one, so no idea why you'd find it strange.  Given their performance though, I do understand why you'd suggest TMZ being an upgrade.

Giving daily updates is extremely difficult, hence why we've seen so much reporting end up being wrong a week after a headline breaks. 

Quote

What's weird to me is that some people don't seem to expect that Israel conducts its war in a human manner, or just hand wave away all the highly problematic conduct with the excuse that, well, Hamas started it so everything is all their fault.  Yes, Hamas committed a major atrocity on Oct. 7th, but Israel is completely responsible for its own actions in response.

Israel at least tries to mitigate things, but everyone acknowledges they're a hammer looking for nails. Hamas OTOH openly says they want every Jew to die in the region and are equally happy when their own citizens are killed as a result of their actions. 

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5 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Oh, come on. This is most probably the most obvious attempt at ethnic cleansing since the Armenian genocide more than a century ago. Why are people actually surprised by that kind of things, when it's clear that it's deliberate and done on purpose?

To be fair, when people were suggesting this was what was happening a few weeks ago, quite a few said that they were wrong/exaggerating/just biased because they were anti-Israel; even when Israeli officials were using language that made it really obvious, and the ethnic cleansing proposal was leaked, they were told that these people were just extremists who didn't represent the government, or they were only talking about Hamas and not all Palestinians.

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Al-Shifa hospital was reportedly given one hour to evacuate with no sort of assistance.

This is crazy to me.  The only justification for something like this would be if the IDF really did find the HQ, and just haven't announced it yet.  But even then, you can give the people more than one hour.   The evidence they found and showed to the public in the first 3 days, to me, doesn't come close to justifying such an action. 

A recent report on Al Jazeera states that a UN convoy is coming to transport the roughly 120 patients that can't be moved by the evacuees.  So at least there is that.  Not sure if this includes the 30 plus premature babies, but I hope so, because pushing 30 premature babies on a cart for miles on a blasted road through an active war zone seems completely inhumane.

The IDF claimed when they brought the incubators and boxes labeled "MEDICAL SUPPLIES" in very large easy to see letters that this showed that they cared about the Palestinian citizens.  But this forced evacuation only a couple days later shows how they really feel.  Those boxes, which looked very suspiciously like a PR stunt, really were just a PR stunt.

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Just now, Craving Peaches said:

Why were they labelled in English and not Arabic? Just Like how the 'nurse' was speaking in English and not Arabic?

English in very large lettering that was slapped onto the boxes, plus the original print on the boxes in another language.

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2 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Actually, there is conflicting reporting now.  IDF says that there was no forced evacuation.  Palestinian doctors claim they were forced at gunpoint.  Will have to wait and see.

BBC reports that AFP journalist heard the Israeli evacuation order over the loudspeakers.

Quote

The first indications of a further evacuation this morning came from the AFP news agency quoting one of its journalists at the scene. He said Israeli troops ordered the evacuation of the hospital “in the next hour" over loudspeakers.

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2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Why were they labelled in English and not Arabic? Just Like how the 'nurse' was speaking in English and not Arabic?

Because the target “audience” is America and, to a lesser degree, other English speaking countries.

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