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Marvel's Multiverse of Maddening Returns


Myrddin
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54 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Marvel isn't grabbing the imagination of the current crop of 6-12 year olds

That’s one of the curious decisions Marvel made. How did they expect to market ‘The Eternals’ to kids? Who is going to dress as one of the Eternals? There is nothing there to base a franchise on, so why go in that direction?

Shang Chi doesn’t even have a recognisable costume, so why pick that character? 
 

Do kids want to be Dr Strange? Not many I bet. 
 

Then the MCU has moved to try and capture the teenage girl market with its choices like Ms Marvel ( and general replacement of male characters with ‘put a chick in it’) but is that really the market they should be concentrating on when it’s mostly been teenage boys who have been their core audience historically? If I was a teenage boy, which MCU heroes am I going to be interested in and think are ‘awesome’? 

Edited by Heartofice
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50 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Then the MCU has moved to try and capture the teenage girl market with its choices like Ms Marvel ( and general replacement of male characters with ‘put a chick in it’) but is that really the market they should be concentrating on when it’s mostly been teenage boys who have been their core audience historically? If I was a teenage boy, which MCU heroes am I going to be interested in and think are ‘awesome’? 

There's a social commentary somewhere to be made about the modern teenage boy and identity... but I'll leave it without expounding on it.  :lol: 

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My son actually really liked Dr Strange at 10. But I know it's not the usual go to favorite hero. 

I will say, that I'm glad we have more female heroes for the girls to look up to. Capt Marvel should've been that main draw as strong as Wonder Woman. Apparently, her only fan girl seems to be Kamala Khan :lol: 

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You don't need to constantly put out new characters for some kids to identify with. Captain America and iron man and Thor are all still there. The movies still exist. The point is to grab new people too.

Also, last I checked spider man was kinda popular amongst them younguns.

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12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

You don't need to constantly put out new characters for some kids to identify with. Captain America and iron man and Thor are all still there. The movies still exist. The point is to grab new people too.

Also, last I checked spider man was kinda popular amongst them younguns.

Spider Man is a strange character. He’s sort of like Batman, in the sense that almost everyone seems to love him. He is by far Marvels most popular character. 
 

When I saw No Way Home, in the theater, it was a magical night. I remember everyone being so dam happy. The woman next to me nearly jumped out of her seat when Andre Garfield showed up.

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6 hours ago, sifth said:

Plus both a Hunger Games Prequel and Trolls Band Together come out this weekend. One tracking over 100 minion and the other tracking to make around 70 million, so odds are The Marvels will be finishing in third place in it's second week. Another first for the MCU.

I have to confess that neither of those are on my radar. Maybe one or both of them can break out. Who knows?

It’s interesting to think back to the original Hunger Games films, which I think are pretty solid; even the slightly flawed 4th film. Well written, well made, engaging, films that were actually about something.

And, incredibly successful at the box office. They were basically making MCU money before the MCU was.  That is, those 4 films had an average global box office of $750 mil. I’m pretty sure the MCU didn’t hit that mark until the end of phase 3. And HG did it on some relatively modest production budgets as well. 

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16 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The movies still exist.

They retired most of those characters,or in the case of Thor made him a joke. There won’t be new movies for those characters. Maybe teenage boys will come out in droves to watch.. Ironheart?!

Clearly they were trying to refresh their roster with new heroes that will sell toys. Which makes their choices even more baffling 

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The 'they should have gone with the recognisable heroes' argument doesn't feel that strong, since most of the heroes they started the MCU with weren't A-listers when they did. Nobody knew who the Guardians were and now they're a key pillar. Whatever is going wrong, it's in the marketing and product, not just that the heroes are wrong. Ms Marvel has been very popular since she was introduced and Carol has been an Avenger for ages. They didn't pick them at random from a woke hat.

 

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7 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

The 'they should have gone with the recognisable heroes' argument doesn't feel that strong, since most of the heroes they started the MCU with weren't A-listers when they did. Nobody knew who the Guardians were and now they're a key pillar. Whatever is going wrong, it's in the marketing and product, not just that the heroes are wrong. Ms Marvel has been very popular since she was introduced and Carol has been an Avenger for ages. They didn't pick them at random from a woke hat.

 

Nobody is saying it’s the only reason for Marvels problems, but it wouldn’t be correct to say it wasn’t a problem at all. 
 

It’s fine to refresh with new characters, but which new phase 4 characters are as recognisable as the original MCU ones?

Edited by Heartofice
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5 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Yes. The point is that she had comic fans but didn't know how to expand that to screen fans. Like that is what I'm saying. 

Except her tv show was actually pretty decent, the main actress is good, it’s well made. There is nothing especially wrong with it. 
 

But nobody watched it, maybe because there really wasn’t a big audience for it.

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2 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

In other potential news, yes please

I love Mads and support him playing any character, but are we really double dipping already?

Dr Strange: "I feel like I have deja vu."

Doom: "Possibly. Who am I to judge."

 

I guess Michelle Yeoh and Gemma Chan have already appeared in two separate roles.

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51 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Well, Ms Marvel is by most accounts a good seller for one, and had certainly been high-profile since her debut.

The streaming numbers for her tv show say otherwise and I say this as a fan of the show, I mean heck I grew up in Jersey City, lol

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Nobody is saying it’s the only reason for Marvels problems, but it wouldn’t be correct to say it wasn’t a problem at all. 
 

It’s fine to refresh with new characters, but which new phase 4 characters are as recognisable as the original MCU ones?

I just think that Disney has over saturated the market via Disney Plus, and the fact that they’re releasing too many movies a year.  These no longer feel like special events.  

And then there’s the fact that many of them have been a chore to watch.  I couldn’t get two shows into Secret Invasion.  

While it might be unfair to paint every Marvel movie/show with a broad brush, I’ve been kind of doing that.  And I’m a huge comic book nerd.  So if you’re losing me, you’ve probably already lost the more casual fan.

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34 minutes ago, sifth said:

The streaming numbers for her tv show say otherwise and I say this as a fan of the show, I mean heck I grew up in Jersey City, lol

She's a good seller for the comics and other properties. That doesn't mean the show was. 

 

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Nobody is saying it’s the only reason for Marvels problems, but it wouldn’t be correct to say it wasn’t a problem at all. 
 

It’s fine to refresh with new characters, but which new phase 4 characters are as recognisable as the original MCU ones?

But that's the point of the GotG comparison - none of those were recognizable to all but a very hardcore set of people. Same is true for Black Panther, honestly - it's recognizable but he's been a second-tier hero that comes and goes in the Marvel universes all the time. You don't need to have someone who has brand name recognition like Spidey or Batman or Superman; you just need some good stories and interesting villainy there. That's it!

Shang-Chi is probably the best example of this, where he probably could have done fine if they didn't need that stupid ending and some of the bloating. I don't think Eternals was ever going to go well and Dr. Strange is just...too weird of an area. But a Kung-Fu superstar with that bus fight and Jackie Chan styled fight sequences and vibe? That's probably going to be a big winner...if they don't fuck that last act up. 

I still think that their biggest mistake was the TV shows, period. Having to incorporate so much lore and story and intertwining and make it so that you have to watch Loki to understand Ant-Man and you have to watch FaWS to understand Black Widow and all of this - it's just too fucking much, and the weight of all the bullshit came crashing down. 

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I am a casual superhero fan. Never into the comics, my older brother was, my intro was the afternoon cartoon shows. The shows I liked were X-men, Spiderman, then  Batman, Fantastic Four... and who cares after that. Not counting Thunder Cats, He Man, Transformers in this supe group

So when a movie w Spiderman comes out, I am automatically interested, X-men, count me in. Even FF as weak as the movies have been, I still watched and somewhat enjoyed them because I know them, grew up w them.  These characters movies have to make me not want to see it, looking at you Dark Pheonix, otherwise they always get the benefit of the doubt.

I had never heard of Blue Beatle or Capt Marvel growing up...  These other heroes have to earn me wanting to see them, tell others about them, or watch again streaming. So those movies have to be better than Spiderman for me to like it as much as Spiderman, if that makes sense. Iron Man fits this bill. I knew next to nothing about him until the movie came out. It was a great movie, IMO, and I was in, was going to see everything he was in after that.

Fans like me are built into certain super hero movies and not others.

 

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