Jump to content

Israel Hamas War XI -- Foggier and Foggier


Zorral
 Share

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Ran said:

I bow to your greater expertise in pathetic argumentation. :bowdown:

Israel isn't going anywhere, is the thing, so no amount of hand-wringing over 1948 will fix anything. Every repetition of "settler-colonialism" is a naked expectation that the useful idiots who witlessly repeat "From the river to the sea" will one day abet the ethnic cleansing of Greater Palestine.

It will never happen. The sooner the Palestinians accept this fact, the better for them.

 

If you listen to Palestinians, they say they just want to be free to live without the boot of the Israeli occupation on their necks, there is no talk of genocide except in the case of right wing extremist groups whose legitimacy is derived from their opposition to said oppression. The main driver of antisemitism in Israel is Israel itself, not because Palestinians spring forth from the womb calling for death to the Jews, but because Israel brutalizes and denies even a shred of humanity to them and everyone they will even know and care about every day of their lives, and to demand that they just give in and accept that they must accept the domination of Israel is vile and would not be accepted in any other circumstance.

Imagine if I were to say that Taiwan needs to just accept Chinese domination, you would be rightfully outraged by that, but because Israel is the US's toe hold in the middle east and because you've been conditioned to see them as the single legitimately aggrieved party, you dismiss it as somehow different.

Edited by GrimTuesday
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

Imagine if I were to say that Taiwan needs to just accept Chinese domination, you would be rightfully outraged by that, but because Israel is the US's toe hold in the middle east and because you've been conditioned to see them as the single legitimately aggrieved party, you dismiss it as somehow different.

Funny you say that cause the kind of left-wing journalists (ie. Max Blumenthal, Glenn Greenwald) who regularly criticise Israel were defending China when they invaded Taiwan, and defend Russia whenever they invade someone. I can't stand these kind of double standards. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Darryk said:

Funny you say that cause the kind of left-wing journalists (ie. Max Blumenthal, Glenn Greenwald) who regularly criticise Israel were defending China when they invaded Taiwan, and defend Russia whenever they invade someone.

So you think these two people are the best representation of what the left leaning media and voters express support for as a whole regarding the three mentioned questions?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Darryk said:

Funny you say that cause the kind of left-wing journalists (ie. Max Blumenthal, Glenn Greenwald) who regularly criticise Israel were defending China when they invaded Taiwan, and defend Russia whenever they invade someone. I can't stand these kind of double standards. 

When did China invade Taiwan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

I for one disagree that the Palestinians or Hamas "started all of this" This conflict started with the settler colonial project (as acknolwedged by people like Herzl) that was the creation of the state of Israel. The reality is that while most Israelis are innocent, they are living on stolen land, the creation of the state of Israel was predicated on an act of mass ethnic cleansing and then 75 years of apartheid, which requires violence to maintain. There has not been a single day since 1948 that Palestinians have known peace from their colonizers.

No, this started on October 7th when Hamas attacked Israel, murdering over 1,200 people and taking over 240 hostages. Full stop.

It's amazing how much of a mouth piece you are for Hamas. Again, you repeat their talking points non-stop. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/23/israel-hamas-war-news-hostage-deal-gaza-palestine/

Quote

.... The director of Gaza’s largest hospital was detained by Israeli forces on Thursday, as Israel said al-Shifa Hospital, under Mohamed Abu Salmiya’s “direct management,” had “served as a Hamas command and control center.” Israel did not provide evidence of a Hamas control center, and doctors and other medical workers at the hospital have strenuously denied that it was used for military purposes. Gaza’s Health Ministry said that Salmiya was detained while traveling in an evacuation convoy managed by the World Health Organization, and that it was suspending coordination of medical evacuations with the WHO as a result. ....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

I for one disagree that the Palestinians or Hamas "started all of this" This conflict started with the settler colonial project (as acknolwedged by people like Herzl) that was the creation of the state of Israel.

Even Moshe Dyan said this at the time -- and approved though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

So you think these two people are the best representation of what the left leaning media and voters express support for as a whole regarding the three mentioned questions?

 

Their behavior seems to be widely echoed by people politically aligned with them. The politician George Galloway is another one who eviscerates Israel but defends China and Putin to the hilt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Ran said:

I bow to your greater expertise in pathetic argumentation. :bowdown:

Israel isn't going anywhere, is the thing, so no amount of hand-wringing over 1948 will fix anything. Every repetition of "settler-colonialism" is a naked expectation that the useful idiots who witlessly repeat "From the river to the sea" will one day abet the ethnic cleansing of Greater Palestine.

It will never happen. The sooner the Palestinians accept this fact, the better for them.

 

So when people talk about decolonization  and settler-colonialism in the US and Canada, do you also think that's an attempt to abet ethnic cleansing? Because quite frankly you don't sound all that different here from all sorts of right wingers in the US and Canada talking about how we should stop whining about what Europeans conquered the Americas fair and square and we should stop whining about being forced into marginalized areas with limited resources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

So when people talk about decolonization  and settler-colonialism in the US and Canada, do you also think that's an attempt to abet ethnic cleansing? Because quite frankly you don't sound all that different here from all sorts of right wingers in the US and Canada talking about how we should stop whining about what Europeans conquered the Americas fair and square and we should stop whining about being forced into marginalized areas with limited resources.

The problem is that when people talk about 'From the river to the sea' they are really talking about the removal of a jewish state, and most, if not all of the jews who live there. There might be some who do not immediately associate it with ethnic cleansing, though I dare say there are a large number of palestinian supporters who absolutely are talking about ethnic cleansing.

Many people simply don't want there to be a Jewish state in that region, and are campaigning for it to go away.
 

Edited by Heartofice
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Many people simply don't want there to be a Jewish state in that region, and are campaigning for it to go away.

And trying to say they're against a Jewish state, not Jewish people, even though the impact will be a genocide of Jews. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Did China invade Hong Kong?

They aggressively cracked down in 2019/20. I guess it was not technically an invasion but to people of Hong Kong it must have felt like one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/01/hong-kong-china-crackdown-democracy/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Darryk said:

They aggressively cracked down in 2019/20. I guess it was not technically an invasion but to people of Hong Kong it must have felt like one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/01/hong-kong-china-crackdown-democracy/

Ah ok, i thought maybe you were referring to the 97 handover as an invasion, and i could't think of an actual invasion, so was confused. And sure, not an invasion but pretty brutal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Darryk said:

Their behavior seems to be widely echoed by people politically aligned with them. The politician George Galloway is another one who eviscerates Israel but defends China and Putin to the hilt.

Ok, I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make. Clearly people with not-so usual set of opinions exist. Clearly there are people who are hypocritical when it comes to situations like these. Clearly there are antisemites among the people who oppose the actions of Israel, because they are antisemites.

Do you think the political left does so with a large majority because they (consciously or unconsciously) operate with bigotry or double standards? Or because terrorism rocks? Do you feel like the people you mentioned are the embodiment of the left, or even a good representation to a significant portion of it?

What is the portion of people you perceive as politically alligned with them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Ok, I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make. Clearly people with not-so usual set of opinions exist. Clearly there are people who are hypocritical when it comes to situations like these. Clearly there are antisemites among the people who oppose the actions of Israel, because they are antisemites.

Do you think the political left does so with a large majority because they (consciously or unconsciously) operate with bigotry or double standards? Or because terrorism rocks? Do you feel like the people you mentioned are the embodiment of the left, or even a good representation to a significant portion of it?

What is the portion of people you perceive as politically alligned with them?

Nah I don't think they're the embodiment of the left, just a small faction of it.

I only brought it up cause the mention of China potentially invading Taiwan reminds me how many of those critics of Israel that Max Blumenthal and George Galloway represent would probably defend China if they did that. The double-standards of SOME on the left piss me off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...