Jump to content

Israel Hamas War XI -- Foggier and Foggier


Zorral
 Share

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I so desperately want Netanyahu… and Likud if possible… out of power.  They are as much responsible for Oct. 7 and the horrors unleashed as Hamas is.

He's terrible. I was listening to something earlier and apparently there is more reporting on how the government dismissed several alerts about a possible major attack by Hamas. If that is true, and it increasingly seems to be, those who dismissed these alerts have at least some responsibility for the horrors of October 7.

I also don't really know how the political system works in Israel, but apparently the next general election will be almost 3 years from now, in October 2026. I don't know whether popular pressure, strikes, whatever, can change that. It's also concerning that the coalition of parties that support him hold a vast majority, like 75 seats out of 120 or something? And because of the terrorist attack by Hamas, even many of the moderates seem to be supporting him now. :(

 

 

Edited by kissdbyfire
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

He's terrible. I was listening to something earlier and apparently there is more reporting on how the government dismissed several alerts about a possible major attack by Hamas. If that is true, and it increasingly seems to be, those who dismissed these alerts have at least some responsibility for the horrors of October 7.

I also don't really know how the political system works in Israel, but apparently the next general election will be almost 3 years from now, in October 2026. I don't know whether popular pressure, strikes, whatever, can change that. It's also concerning that the coalition of parties that support him hold a vast majority, like 75 seats out of 120 or something? And because of the terrorist attack by Hamas, even many of the moderates seem to be supporting him now. :(

 

 

This is because Likud loves the fear and desperation that Hamas creates.  They probably wanted small scale attacks to push that fear and drive up their support.  I hope it costs Netanyahu the PM’s seat and Likud the Knesset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I so desperately want Netanyahu… and Likud if possible… out of power.  They are as much responsible for Oct. 7 and the horrors unleashed as Hamas is.

No, fuck this. Stop saying anyone other than Hamas is responsible for what they did. 

Edited by Tywin et al.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm not sure people are absolving all of Israel's actions, but if you put these conditions into a simulator and removed the names of the two parties it would probably spit out something closer to what Israel has done than what others have said they should have.

If that is an ethnic cleansing simulator you are talking, then I would agree. It would spit out something closer to what Israel has done.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

If that is an ethnic cleansing simulator you are talking, then I would agree. It would spit out something closer to what Israel has done.  

What government wouldn't respond to the worst attack in their country's history? 

And again, constantly saying Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza even though they don't while ignoring Hamas openly saying they want every Jew to die is pretty fucked up, especially, ya know, that they were the one's that attacked. 

Edited by Tywin et al.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, fuck this. Stop saying anyone other than Hamas is responsible for what they did. 

They allowed, even encouraged, Hamas to come to Power in Gaza in an effort to kill the two State settlement in order to allow Settlers to continue to flood into the West Bank.  

Likud loves Hamas because it makes Palestinians look like terrorists.  

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

What government wouldn't respond to the worst attack in their country's history? 

And again, constantly saying Israel wants to ethnically cleans Gaza even though they don't while ignoring Hamas openly saying they want every Jew to die is pretty fucked up, especially, ya know, that they were the one's that attacked. 

Can we stop with this reframing?  No one is saying they shouldn't have responded.  They're questioning how Israel has responded.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Oh is that what American Leftist and LGBTQ activists are doing?  

Some are… explicitly.  They are defending and offering apologia for the heretical extemist terrorist organization Hamas…

https://x.com/yashar/status/1729630529199432095?s=46

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Some are… explicitly.  They are defending and offering apologia for the heretical extemist terrorist organization Hamas…

https://x.com/yashar/status/1729630529199432095?s=46

Some are. But that doesn’t mean “the left”, right? Same as Netanyahu & his cronies being nasty vile arseholes doesn’t mean “Israelis”. Right? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

They allowed, even encouraged, Hamas to come to Power in Gaza in an effort to kill the two State settlement in order to allow Settlers to continue to flood into the West Bank.  

Likud loves Hamas because it makes Palestinians look lik terrorists.  

Even if you believe the worst about them, that still in no way at fucking all makes them equally responsible. It's insanely gross to suggest that.

4 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Can we stop with this reframing?  No one is saying they shouldn't have responded.  They're questioning how Israel has responded.  

Israel was being questioned before they even responded. Obviously most rational people think they've gone to far, but it's crazy how quickly people were to downplay what happened to them and blame them for it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Some are… explicitly.  They are defending and offering apologia for the heretical extemist terrorist organization Hamas…

https://x.com/yashar/status/1729630529199432095?s=46

Maybe taking an anecdote as evidence of an entire group doing something is a bad idea?  You can just say "this behavior is wrong" or whatever without having to slap  an LGBTQ label on it.   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Some are. But that doesn’t mean “the left”, right? Same as Netanyahu & his cronies being nasty vile arseholes doesn’t mean “Israelis”. Right? 

Nope. People seem very comfortable equating Netanyahu with all of Israel while saying how dare you conflate Hamas with Palestinians. 

The double standard is glaring. Again, heads I lose, tails you win. Over and over.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Some are. But that doesn’t mean “the left”, right? Same as Netanyahu & his cronies being nasty vile arseholes doesn’t mean “Israelis”. Right? 

Fair.  

That said I’m hearing far too many campus radicals offering apologia for Hamas and defending attempts to “drive all Jews from Palestine” for comfort. 

Hamas is a heretical extremist sect of Islam and should be treated as such.  Their actions against Israeli civilians are not justifiable by reasonable people in my earnest opinion.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/03/13/senior-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-hamas/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Even if you believe the worst about them, that still in no way at fucking all makes them equally responsible. It's insanely gross to suggest that.

Israel was being questioned before they even responded. Obviously most rational people think they've gone to far, but it's crazy how quickly people were to downplay what happened to them and blame them for it. 

Right but that's not what's happening now is it?  Because we are over a month out from the response, and that's what's being criticized.  No one is saying they shouldn't respond, so can we stop that?

MFC almost certainly wasn't.

Edited by Larry of the Lawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Even if you believe the worst about them, that still in no way at fucking all makes them equally responsible. It's insanely gross to suggest that.

Likud has allowed Hamas to rise to power for a reason.  Likud wants an excuse to use a heavy hand againt Palestinians… everywhere.  As such… yeah… I equate them with Hamas.

I hope they and Netanyahu are out of power and never rise back to power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it seems there’s a lot more reporting (again) on how Netanyahu & cronies ignored several warnings about an impending attack by Hamas.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-22/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-ignored-all-the-warnings-and-pushed-the-palestinians-into-confrontation/0000018b-f398-d117-abcf-f7ffdb040000

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/
 

Oh I see part of dismissing the warnings is good old sexism and misogyny b/c women are always alarmist (= hysterical). 
 

The women’s warnings, made over several months, did not correspond to the received wisdom that Hamas had been tamed. In what may transpire to be another major mistake in a series of cascading errors, the women say mainly male top commanders dismissed their concerns, insisted Hamas had no plans to go to war, and ordered them to stop being so alarmist.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Right but that's not what's happening now is it?  Because we are over a month out from the response, and that's what's being criticized.  No one is saying they shouldn't respond, so can we stop that?

MFC almost certainly wasn't.

You're right, but one can't deny that it's easier for Tywin to beat that horse to death than respond to the actual issue that is being contested. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said:

Maybe taking an anecdote as evidence of an entire group doing something is a bad idea?  You can just say "this behavior is wrong" or whatever without having to slap  an LGBTQ label on it.   

 

I agree saying “the left” is too broad.  Can you acknowledge that… some… on “the left” far too many for my comfort want to offer apologia not for Palestinians… but for Hamas and its actions on 10/7?

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...