Jump to content

Israel Hamas War XI -- Foggier and Foggier


Zorral
 Share

Recommended Posts

EU External Partners: EU Divided Over Gaza as Humanitarian Crisis, Displacement and Death Toll Increases, Leaked Document Reveals Israeli Plan for Permanent Displacement of the Strip Population in the Egyptian Sinai Desert | European Council on Refugees and Exiles (ECRE)

Quote

The plan reportedly consists of several elements including instructing Palestinian civilians to evacuate north Gaza ahead of land operations; Sequential land operations from north to south Gaza; Routes across Rafah to be left clear; Establishing tent cities in northern Sinai and construct cities to resettle Palestinians in Egypt. 

More details of the leaked plan. 'Sequential operations from north to south Gaza'...

Edited by Craving Peaches
Fix Link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Link doesn't seem to work.  

For the plan to work though, Israel needs the cooperation of Egypt.  And so far, both Egypt and the US have been publicly opposed to this type of plan.  So even if Netanyahu and people in his government coalition would like this to happen, it doesn't look like it will work at this time.  I'm not sure how they would be able to convince both Egypt and the US to agree to something like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

Link doesn't seem to work.  

It worked on my phone and computer, but I think I cut off a bit, I'll post it again and you can see if it works:

 EU External Partners: EU Divided Over Gaza as Humanitarian Crisis, Displacement and Death Toll Increases, Leaked Document Reveals Israeli Plan for Permanent Displacement of the Strip Population in the Egyptian Sinai Desert | European Council on Refugees and Exiles (ECRE)

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

For the plan to work though, Israel needs the cooperation of Egypt.  And so far, both Egypt and the US have been publicly opposed to this type of plan.  So even if Netanyahu and people in his government coalition would like this to happen, it doesn't look like it will work at this time.  I'm not sure how they would be able to convince both Egypt and the US to agree to something like this.

I sure hope they can't carry it out.

Edited by Craving Peaches
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Mudguard said:

How can you tell he is uninjured?  

It looks like there is a significant amount blood on his shirt.  So far, it just looks like they are bringing in injured hostages for treatment.

Yup, just bringing them in to the hospital, by force, with machine guns and a cleaver. What a great bunch of lads, saving that poor hostage.. that they captured (probably brutally murdering his family and friends too) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, again, skipped like 5 hospitals and multiple clinics to go to Al-Shifa... for some reason.

Pretty clear that it was the plan to take hostages there, given the numerous hostages found adjacent to Al-Shifa... for some reason.

All the doctors who swore up and down there had been no hostages there are, obviously, in a tough spot with Hamas breathing down their neck... but remember that the next time a doctor in Gaza makes any claims that can't be independently verified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thus far, no msm has come out and verified that these are indeed Hamas military headquarters of any kind.  The words they all use are 'claimed', 'told',  'unable to verifiy', 'IDF has not returned our request for interview', etc.

Edited by Zorral
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ran said:

And, again, skipped like 5 hospitals and multiple clinics to go to Al-Shifa... for some reason.

Pretty clear that it was the plan to take hostages there, given the numerous hostages found adjacent to Al-Shifa... for some reason.

All the doctors who swore up and down there had been no hostages there are, obviously, in a tough spot with Hamas breathing down their neck... but remember that the next time a doctor in Gaza makes any claims that can't be independently verified.

There can be many reasons that they skipped other hospital and clinics that may have been closer.  For example, it's possible that the decision to take them to a hospital was made after they already passed by the other hospitals.  As others have pointed out, it's clear that the hostage's health was not the number one priority.  But having the hostage die shortly after being taken hostage would defeat the purpose of taking that person as a hostage in the first place.

By numerous hostages found adjacent to Al-Shifa, do you mean two?  Or are there more than that?

Israel is going to have to prove with conclusive evidence that the HQ is actually under Al-Shifa, and none of this is even close.  It looks like you are implying that these hostages were taken to Al Shifa because the HQ is there, although why these two hostages need to be taken to the HQ is unclear to me.  Also, we know what building they were taken to, so if they were taken to the HQ through that building, why hasn't the IDF located the entrance to the HQ from that building yet?  They have been looking for 5 or 6 days now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

More details of the leaked plan. 'Sequential operations from north to south Gaza'...

 

5 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Link doesn't seem to work.  

For the plan to work though, Israel needs the cooperation of Egypt.  And so far, both Egypt and the US have been publicly opposed to this type of plan.  So even if Netanyahu and people in his government coalition would like this to happen, it doesn't look like it will work at this time.  I'm not sure how they would be able to convince both Egypt and the US to agree to something like this.

I don't understand this as being particularly newsworthy; this was the same reported plan a few weeks ago that has been stated as nonbinding and advisory. Are you upset because it's fairly detailed? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't understand this as being particularly newsworthy

It is newsworthy, that plans such as this are continually floated, along with the declarations of never a Palestinian state, determination to 'cleanse' the West Bank of Palestinians, by getting rid of them and stealing their homes and lands, perpetual military oversight of what were supposed to be Palestinian territories, and so on and so forth.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Zorral said:

It is newsworthy, that plans such as this are continually floated, along with the declarations of never a Palestinian state, determination to 'cleanse' the West Bank of Palestinians, by getting rid of them and stealing their homes and lands, perpetual military oversight of what were supposed to be Palestinian territories, and so on and so forth.  

But it's not 'continually' floated. It's the same plan that was floated a few weeks ago. We just got more details about it. It is the same source, the same person, the same plan. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the hospitals and Hamas.  It's clear that in the past, and I assume even now, that the hospitals treat Hamas terrorists when they need medical services.  But providing medical services to Hamas terrorists doesn't automatically convert the hospital to terrorist infrastructure, and doesn't mean that the HQ is located under the hospital. 

The IDF has been searching Al-Shifa non-stop for 5 or 6 days, and they have yet to turn up any convincing evidence that an HQ is located under the buildings.  Certainly, no entrance to the HQ from one of the buildings used by the medical staff to treat patients has been found.  Based on this lack of evidence, why wouldn't most doctors legitimately believe that the HQ doesn't exist under the hospital, even if there really was one?  If it exists, it's obviously extremely well hidden, despite people claiming it's location was extremely well known.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

 

I don't understand this as being particularly newsworthy; this was the same reported plan a few weeks ago that has been stated as nonbinding and advisory. Are you upset because it's fairly detailed? 

I'm not upset because I think the plan is unlikely to be successful.

But it is interesting to note that the military campaign so far has followed the outline pretty much exactly.  And it seems likely that Palestinian civilians will soon be pushed towards Rafah, because where else will they go when the fighting extends to the rest of Khan Younis?  And since the initial leak, many ministers in Netanyahu's governments have made comments essentially supporting such a plan.  It's clearly something many leaders in the government would like to do, if they could.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Thus far, no msm has come out and verified that these are indeed Hamas military headquarters of any kind.  The words they all use are 'claimed', 'told',  'unable to verifiy', 'IDF has not returned our request for interview', etc.

Because of false balance and the decision to depict Israel and Hamas as equally reliable/unreliable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

But having the hostage die shortly after being taken hostage would defeat the purpose of taking that person as a hostage in the first place.

You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that Israel and the hostage families would not exchange for their remains. Hamas, like Hizbullah, knows better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that Israel and the hostage families would not exchange for their remains. Hamas, like Hizbullah, knows better.

I'm pretty sure that any potential hostage deal that is being negotiated right now is premised on the hostages being alive.  There will be no deal if the hostages are all dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

I'm not upset because I think the plan is unlikely to be successful.

But it is interesting to note that the military campaign so far has followed the outline pretty much exactly.  And it seems likely that Palestinian civilians will soon be pushed towards Rafah, because where else will they go when the fighting extends to the rest of Khan Younis?  And since the initial leak, many ministers in Netanyahu's governments have made comments essentially supporting such a plan.  It's clearly something many leaders in the government would like to do, if they could.  

Yes? But again, I don't see why sharing the specific details is all that newsworthy. It's not like this is a new plan, and Netanyahu et al have said that that isn't their actual plan of record. 

And more to the point, I don't see how Egypt or the US or anyone else is going to go along with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

But it's not 'continually' floated. It's the same plan that was floated a few weeks ago. We just got more details about it. It is the same source, the same person, the same plan. 

That's what I meant.  And it tells us what bibietc. intend for the Palestinians, and it's all awful.

And they don't need anybody to go along with it, as we see what they have been doing all along for years ,and are doing now -- it hasn't been what other nations have endorsed, but they do it anyway, just starting with the decades' long theft and violence done to the Palestinians.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yes? But again, I don't see why sharing the specific details is all that newsworthy. It's not like this is a new plan, and Netanyahu et al have said that that isn't their actual plan of record. 

And more to the point, I don't see how Egypt or the US or anyone else is going to go along with it. 

While I think the plan is still unlikely, I don't think it's impossible.  And as long as the military campaign pushes everyone towards Rafah, it will remain an option.

Apparently, Egypt is in a big financial hole, so potentially Israel could try offering a large financial package to Egypt for setting up a refugee camp in the Sinai.  Egypt would become a pariah in the Middle East if they agreed to this though, so I don't think it's likely.  That said, corruption is a big problem over there, so who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it matter whether it is newsworthy? And sure, the actual “plan” isn’t news. But perhaps the fact that this very troubling idea continues to be mentioned by several different politicians in Netanyahu’s circle should be. In fact, it should be in the MSM much more than it is. Equally troubling is the fact that, even though Netanyahu & his cronies have to know even the US probably won’t accept it, they just keep repeating it over and over again. 
Maybe they’re just playing for their hardcore base of voters, but it’s still troubling to keep reading about it.

Edited by kissdbyfire
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...