Skahaz and Barristan

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

So I got to the Barristan part if my ASOIAF reread, and right away, as usual, I have thoughts. 

1. Hizdahr is almost certainly not the poisoner. If he is, he did a horrible job. He suggested Daenerys to eat the locusts offhand once. She refuses and he never brings it up again. It is just to painfully stupid if he was making a serious attempt on her life. 

2. Credit to the person who said this theory once more but @Craving Peaches theory is growing on me more and more. Skahaz just is like, “I have the poisoner,” and Barristan is like, “What?” at first. Almost like Barristan never even thought about the existence of a poisoner before this moment. Skahaz just making up a poisoner as part of a planned coup just makes too much sense.

Of course, the possibility that Skahaz was planning to poison Hizdahr instead of Daenerys and he is the poisoner is also possible. And finally, the possibility that there was poison but that the poison wasn’t deadly (and just meant to make someone sick) also works for the rest if my theory.

Poisoner or no poisoner, I think the main thrust of Skahaz’s plan was to remove Hizdahr from power. My guess is he WOULDN’T want Daenerys to die, so I’m in favor of either a non-deadly poison or no poison at all, and Skahaz just acted upon an opportunity. 

3. Barristan decides to work with Skahaz so fast lol. He is like, “I hate the game of thrones,” then instantly follows Skahaz like 10 seconds later lol. I think it shows that he is anti-Great Masters and was kind of ready for this move. He also seems to trust Skahaz as an ally (not like as a person, but thst Skahaz is on “Daenerys’s suce” which I agree with).

4. Skahaz also does the thing I want Daenerys to do. He talks to the leaders of the Freedmen companies and includes them in his plans. As I’ve said elsewhere, Daenerys HAS allies in Meereen, and she just kind of ignores. She allows Hizdahr to remove Skahaz from her council despite him being arguably the only free-born Meereenese obviously on team Daenerys that we have met. She listens to Hizdahr or the Green Grace, when she should be listening to Marselen, Symond Stripeback, Skahaz, Mollono Yos Dob, or other Shavepates/Freedmen. 

5. Lastly, I don’t know what this means for when Daenerys returns. I suspect Skahaz is going to kill a lot of Great Masters while Barristan and company are fighting the war. How will Daenerys react to this? Honestly, I am not sure. I do think Barristan is gonna win that battle though. And of course Victorian is going to enter the picture, which is terrifying, lol. 

[SeanF]

Skahaz is right to carry out the coup, and Barristan is right to join him.

Whatever one may think of the Great Masters, it’s far too dangerous to allow them to exercise any power, in the face of the Volantene invasion.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

43 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Skahaz is right to carry out the coup, and Barristan is right to join him.

Whatever one may think of the Great Masters, it’s far too dangerous to allow them to exercise any power, in the face of the Volantene invasion.

Oh I agree. They are fucked if they don’t do it. They basically acted before Yunkai or the Great Masters could. Their positions/lives were very much in the balance and leaving the Great Masters in charge would be super foolish. Skahaz knows this, Barristan kind of doesn’t see it. I think it was smart of Skahaz to not jsut come out and say this though. He knows Barristan’s honor requires Skahaz to focus on Daenerys not their own lives. 

[John Suburbs]

6 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

So I got to the Barristan part if my ASOIAF reread, and right away, as usual, I have thoughts. 

1. Hizdahr is almost certainly not the poisoner. If he is, he did a horrible job. He suggested Daenerys to eat the locusts offhand once. She refuses and he never brings it up again. It is just to painfully stupid if he was making a serious attempt on her life. 

2. Credit to the person who said this theory once more but @Craving Peaches theory is growing on me more and more. Skahaz just is like, “I have the poisoner,” and Barristan is like, “What?” at first. Almost like Barristan never even thought about the existence of a poisoner before this moment. Skahaz just making up a poisoner as part of a planned coup just makes too much sense.

Of course, the possibility that Skahaz was planning to poison Hizdahr instead of Daenerys and he is the poisoner is also possible. And finally, the possibility that there was poison but that the poison wasn’t deadly (and just meant to make someone sick) also works for the rest if my theory.

Poisoner or no poisoner, I think the main thrust of Skahaz’s plan was to remove Hizdahr from power. My guess is he WOULDN’T want Daenerys to die, so I’m in favor of either a non-deadly poison or no poison at all, and Skahaz just acted upon an opportunity. 

3. Barristan decides to work with Skahaz so fast lol. He is like, “I hate the game of thrones,” then instantly follows Skahaz like 10 seconds later lol. I think it shows that he is anti-Great Masters and was kind of ready for this move. He also seems to trust Skahaz as an ally (not like as a person, but thst Skahaz is on “Daenerys’s suce” which I agree with).

4. Skahaz also does the thing I want Daenerys to do. He talks to the leaders of the Freedmen companies and includes them in his plans. As I’ve said elsewhere, Daenerys HAS allies in Meereen, and she just kind of ignores. She allows Hizdahr to remove Skahaz from her council despite him being arguably the only free-born Meereenese obviously on team Daenerys that we have met. She listens to Hizdahr or the Green Grace, when she should be listening to Marselen, Symond Stripeback, Skahaz, Mollono Yos Dob, or other Shavepates/Freedmen. 

5. Lastly, I don’t know what this means for when Daenerys returns. I suspect Skahaz is going to kill a lot of Great Masters while Barristan and company are fighting the war. How will Daenerys react to this? Honestly, I am not sure. I do think Barristan is gonna win that battle though. And of course Victorian is going to enter the picture, which is terrifying, lol. 

I still have Hiz as the poisoner, but not to kill Dany, only to purge her womb so that any child she bears will be unquestionably his. If anyone wanted to kill her, there are poisons that will do this regardless of the victim's size or weight.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Barristan #2 -

I am going to double down on this. I don't think Reznek is directly anti-Daenerys. I think he is....pro-Great Masters, and also somehow pro-Daenerys. Those things do...not add up, and yet it's how he acts in every scene. He, unlike Hizdahr actually reacts to the Yunkai killing Groleo, and he actually seems to strongly attach his power/influence to Daenerys, and not Hizdahr or the Great Masters. I've said before he also seemed genuinely distressed when Daenerys was considering taking Qarth's ships and going to Westeros. Maybe Reznek...is like half a Shavepate. Trying to kind of play both sides. But considering his real distress, maybe he thinks he won't be protected if Daenerys's government was overturned. I don't know, this is pretty random, but..I think Reznek might actually be ...complicated somehow. 

Also, Hizdahr.......honestly, I think he is just a patsy for the Green Grace. He seems clueless, and that would make sense if his only job was to marry Daenerys and receive orders from the Green Grace. He might not even be fully aware of everything the Great Masters are doing. Certainly his loyalty is questionable....but he just seems more like a fool than a conspirator. 

Finally, Barristan kind of shows true loyalty to his Queen in this chapter, in a way that I truly love. I like that it kind of shows that he..is essentially transparent. In earlier books, when we just saw him from a far, he always had this like proper way of speaking and afraid to offend/but also loyal and doing what was asked of him way of talking. And then in his head, it's basically the same. He doesn't just speak of loyalty, he is loyal, even in his own head. He clearly probably doesn't like Daenerys being with Daario, but he doesn't care. It's her choice, so he defends it, because that is what the Kingsguard does. Barristan also does seem to understand Daenerys better than many others do, which shows he listens to her and tries to understand her (again, I'm sure he sees that as his duty). 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Barristan 3 - Skahaz wants to kill everyone and Barristan says no a lot lol. To be fair, some of Skahaz’s plans do seem good (a sudden attack on the Yunkai with Groleo’s murder as an excuse seems a fair choice). 

The ease at which Skahaz and Barristan succeed again points me to this area - It is possible Reznek is working with Skahaz. Hear me out. Skahaz mentions Reznek having more spies when they talk about trying to get the hostages away from the Yunkai, which suggests to me that Skahaz to at least some extent trusts Reznek. If Reznek was just a pawn for the Green Grace/the Harpy, I don’t think Skahaz would be so gung ho to work with him. 

Also, Skahaz is indeed the most powerful of the Freeborn Meereenese. He does indeed control the Brazen Beasts, which to me means the Brazen Beasts are all Freedmen and Shavepates, they have 0 loyalty to the Great Masters. Again, Barristan literally with 6 dudes takes over the government of Meereen, lol. That’s crazy. It means Hizdahr held almost no actual power and that the Green Grace/Harpy have absolutely no actual power/force. Daenerys really could have taken power from them with ease, and her worry of taking the pyramids seems…unfounded. 

Final note - The Barristan/lasy 2 Qynten chapters are really freaking good. It has all the intrigue in my opinion of Eddard’s final chapters in AGoT. I really can’t understand how people don’t like these chapters. They are so good! 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

No one cares about this feed, but whatever. Barristan honestly just seems very competent in his final chapter. He honestly kind of did..what Eddard should have done. Replace Skahaz with Renly (Eddard should have taken his troops), Hizdahr with Cersei (Eddard should have arrested her rather than telling her what was up), and Reznek with Petyr Baelish (although we are not told directly what is going on with Reznek, he does not take part in the council meeting so he was probably arrested or removed from power). Not that the situations were identical...but there is at least some overlap here. Also, the Green Grace might as well have admitted that she was working with the Harpy. She as like put Hizdahr in charge or war...like, I don't know, is she even really hiding that she is kind of on the Yunkai's side? 

Also, ...all the Great Pyramids should have been taken from the Great Masters. I know i've said that many other places...but it just makes no sense. Why are the old slaver holders just allowed to keep their land..when they lost..and don't even appear to have much or any ability to stop Daenerys's troops from removing them and redistributing at least a portion of their wealth. 

[Alester Florent]

Barristan's chapter is definitely a great schematic in how to pull off a coup. Who knew the old man had it in him?

[astarkchoice]

The great thing is they are both such polar opposites and mirror each other.

 

Barristan came from a background of privelge and while he has worked hard to serve he has always stuck to a rigid code and struggled immensely when hes had to step outside his fixed rigid role and that code. He serves his honour as much as his master but stays oit of the game as much as possible relying only on his blade and formerly his brothers in the guard.

 

Shaz by contrast comes from slavery and is the complete opposite, hes a practical   the ends justify the means sorta guy and no moral or social norms will restrain him (like being able to kill kids with ease if needed) he plays the game and deals in the shadows making alliances and securing power. He cannot rely on great personal skill at arms thus prefers to strike 1st and strike with suprise , ruthlessness and numbers on his side!

Edited November 25 by astarkchoice