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Did the Targaryens colonize Westeros?


KingAerys_II
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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

It did. This is a fact. There's loads to indicate the Kingdom of Germany existed. Just because there was no 'German nationalism' at the time doesn't stop it existing. Same with Italy. Are you going to argue there is no Kingdom of Scotland either since nationalism wasn't around yet?

To be fair, as we all know, Scotland was invented in 1911 by the McGowan sweet company as a means of marketing highland toffee.

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10 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Kingdom of Italy was founded by a barbarian that declared himself king of Italy, he had different language, alphabet, laws

Uh no. Odovacer had an understanding with the Roman Empire where he ruled as their representative in Italy. Then Emperor Zeno decided he had no more use of him.

The Franks also have Kings of Italy after Charlemagne's empire was divided, iirc.

TBC Rex Italiae wasn't a nation-state concept for most of the time it existed, just a regional title. "I rule this land called Italy, so I am King of Italy".

Edited by SaffronLady
I think you are looking for something like "King of the Italians", but your English is very bad, so I need to guess
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1 hour ago, SaffronLady said:

Uh no. Odovacer had an understanding with the Roman Empire where he ruled as their representative in Italy. Then Emperor Zeno decided he had no more use of him.

The Franks also have Kings of Italy after Charlemagne's empire was divided, iirc.

TBC Rex Italiae wasn't a nation-state concept for most of the time it existed, just a regional title. "I rule this land called Italy, so I am King of Italy".

Franks used French as common language of France population, big difference, however what about Daenerys Waters? 

Edited by KingAerys_II
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1 hour ago, SaffronLady said:

Uh no. Odovacer had an understanding with the Roman Empire where he ruled as their representative in Italy. Then Emperor Zeno decided he had no more use of him.

The Franks also have Kings of Italy after Charlemagne's empire was divided, iirc.

TBC Rex Italiae wasn't a nation-state concept for most of the time it existed, just a regional title. "I rule this land called Italy, so I am King of Italy".

The Franks adopted a romance language, do you know what means? It means they started using the Latin alphabet. 

French language has Latin substrate, it's very different to the Frankish language. 

Odoacer used a germanic language and the runic alphabet. 

Odoacer kingdom was colonialism

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15 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Source?

Quote

for the first time since the mid-3rd century copper coins were issued with the legend S(enatus) C(onsulto)

Seems like he was using Latin so? No denying he may have used his native language when communicating with fellow Germanic people but I have seen nothing to suggest he forced the locals to use runes etc. It also said he was supported by the senate in doing stuff, I doubt they would have given him such support if he was trying to 'colonise' them.

If Odoacer 'colonised' Italy, the Targaryens colonised Westeros. I don't think you can have it both ways.

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Odoacer was a general of germanic mercenaries. 

Germanic mercenaries used to preserve their language and customs, they were different from the Germans that became part of the Roman Empire army. 

Roman Empire already had German population in the territory, there was integration, it means Germans living in the empire spoke Latin and followed Roman laws unlike the mercenaries. 

Odoacer was not Goth, but he was a leader of another germanic tribe 

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I already wrote that Targaryens converted to the Faith of 7 and embraced Westerosi culture,then there were not settlements of a foreign population, 4 individuals including Orys, they tried to keep the main noble house in charge. 

German mercenaries became nobility, they created settlements and started exploiting the lands they conquered. 

 

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13 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

then there were not settlements of a foreign population, 4 individuals including Orys

House Qoherys: Lol

Narrow Sea houses: well, technically they are just allies of the Targs, but the Velaryons especially don't become "the second house of the realm" without some significant input.

14 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

started exploiting the lands they conquered

And what do you call all the taxes and levies used to build King's Landing?

30 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Germanic mercenaries used to preserve their language and customs,

So what if the foederati spoke Germanic languages with each other? House Targaryen speaks High Valyrian with each other, doesn't stop them from speaking Common with outsiders.

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Odoacer did what the Targaryens did, and loads of other medieval rulers who wouldn't be called 'colonialists'. Either they are all 'colonialists' or none of them are. Show me proof that Odoacer forced the natives to use his language, adopt his customs, oppressed them more than usual? Because there is quote a lot of evidence to the contrary. From the Wikipedia page:

Quote

 "It is highly important to observe that Odovacar established his political power with the co-operation of the Roman Senate, and this body seems to have given him their loyal support throughout his reign, so far as our meagre sources permit us to draw inferences." He regularly nominated members of the Senate to the Consulate and other prestigious offices:

Quote

Although Odoacer was an Arian Christian, his relations with the Chalcedonian church hierarchy were remarkably good. As G. M. Cook notes in her introduction to Magnus Felix Ennodius' Life of Saint Epiphanius, he showed great esteem for Bishop Epiphanius: in response to the bishop's petition, Odoacer granted the inhabitants of Liguria a five-year immunity from taxes, and again granted his requests for relief from abuses by the praetorian prefect.[53][o] The biography of Pope Felix III in the Liber Pontificalis openly states that the pontiff's tenure occurred during Odoacer's reign without any complaints about the king being registered.[54]

Quote

The Germanic foederati, the Scirians and the Heruli, as well as a large segment of the Italic Roman army, then proclaimed Odoacer rex ("king") on 23 August 476

 

20 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

they created settlements and started exploiting the lands they conquered.

So did the Targaryens. King's Landing. Targaryens let 'foreigners' settle too, as Saffron Lady pointed out.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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30 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

sacked cities

Harrenhal - like, I know this is a castle, but Westeros having too few cities is GRRM's fault, not mine.

30 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

deported populations

Stormlanders from the realms of Houses Massey, Bar Emmon, etc. and the ironborn from the riverlands.

32 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

then they established a new dominant class

Targaryen-Velaryon-Baratheon tripartite alliance!

32 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

most of Westerosi Great Houses already existed

Well, most but not all.

And Aerys, before this goes the way the Nymor letter thread went, you're an idiot to leave a hill you could have comfortably died on.

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Odoacer was the general of german mercenaries, that had not intention to integrate into Roman society, the Germans had an oral tradition, germanic language and some converted to Christianity, the Arianism. 

Lots of german tribes had the runic alphabet, including the Goths. 

The Goths conquered part of Italy after defeating Odoacer and the tribes that supported him. 

Source : history books about barbarians and Roman Empire

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