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Clarifying Euron's Relationship to Qarth


Hippocras
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I don't have time right now to write out a coherent essay on this topic, but it does feel necessary to have a thread as a side branch, since it no longer fits in @SaffronLady's Fot7 thread.

I was hoping to discuss the enormous mystery that is Euron. This character appeared in the story late and know so little about him. The little we do know is very sinister, although it is hard to understand who exactly he poses a threat to other than previously peaceful lands in the Reach, and members of his own family. He is mysteriously threatening to everyone and noone in particular it seems.

We know that he had been living as a pirate since 297 before returning to the Iron Islands to kill his brother.
We know that he claims to have had a dragon egg that he tried to hatch unsuccessfully in Myr.
We know that he has acquired a taste for shade of the evening and has 3 warlocks as prisoners who are training him in black magic.
We know that the Ironborn consider the Storm God to be their religious antagonist and that Euron says he IS the Storm. Meaning he basically calls himself the devil.
We know he is called "crow's eye" which can't be accidental in its apparent connection to the crows of the North, ravens, etc.

More to add later.

We are left of course wondering without answers as to where exactly Euron went and who he spent time with over the past several years before returning. If he captured Pree's boat which had been destined for Pentos to take revenge on Dany, then clearly shortly after Dany left Qarth Euron intercepted Pree somewhere to the West of Qarth and South of Pentos. This followed the Tourmaline Brotherhood, consisting of pirates, demanding Dany's expulsion from Qarth. Did Euron know she had been expelled, know her originally intended destination, and expect to find her on the way to Pentos? If so, did he have previous connections to Qarth before capturing Pree's ship?

Edited by Hippocras
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I am also onboard with the idea that Euron is a greenseer, and thus also a skinchanger.

I like the idea (though like is not really the word) that his cutting the tongues from his slaves was to help him take their minds without them swallowing their tongues as Thistle did with Varamyr. I think he sees through the Dusky Woman, at least sometimes.

My guess is that he will willingly play the role as the new Bloodstone Emperor and unleash a new Long Night on Westeros, creating the perfect conditions for the Others to invade once again. I lean toward him dying, losing his mind, or become a wight in the process, in the spirit of the Lovecraftian powers he wishes to unleash.

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16 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I am also onboard with the idea that Euron is a greenseer, and thus also a skinchanger.

I like the idea (though like is not really the word) that his cutting the tongues from his slaves was to help him take their minds without them swallowing their tongues as Thistle did with Varamyr. I think he sees through the Dusky Woman, at least sometimes.

My guess is that he will willingly play the role as the new Bloodstone Emperor and unleash a new Long Night on Westeros, creating the perfect conditions for the Others to invade once again. I lean toward him dying, losing his mind, or become a wight in the process, in the spirit of the Lovecraftian powers he wishes to unleash.

I really feel like we don't know enough yet to predict much when it comes to Euron, whose behaviour is, so far, intensely unpredictable. I think for this thread we should try to figure out what we know and what reasonable connections to other things are likely or possible.

I am intrigued by the Tourmaline Brotherhood here for several reasons, the first being that of course they seem to have been annoyed by Dany destroying the House of the Undying which suggests they have a closer relationship to warlocks in Qarth than the Thirteen do, and also because the brotherhood is full of pirates. This link to piracy distinguishes them from Guild of Spicers and the Thirteen, while possibly connecting them to Euron. Xaro Xhoan Daxos clearly considered them rivals, and the fact that Dany kept and wore the crown they gave her, rather than rejecting it in favour of one from the Thirteen may yet have some significance.

The name itself is interesting. Tourmaline is a gemstone of course, but one that has pyroelectric properties. According to wikipedia it can attract and then repel hot ashes. That doesn't seem like an accidental choice of name on the part of GRRM although what exactly the choice might be hinting at is anyone's guess.

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2 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I disagree that we should treat Euron as unpredictable and unknowable, but it's your thread so I won't derail. I don't really have anything to say about the Tourmaline Brotherhood, other than the possible GEotD connection.

It is not that I want to discourage predictions entirely, it is just that it needs to be very firmly based in what we know, and we really don't know very much when it comes to him. I want to figure out what we know or can extrapolate reasonably from what we do.

I did not say "unknowable", but knowing a character happens by spending time with that character. We have spent hardly any time with him at all, and the only POV windows we have on him are from people whose lives are at risk because he is there, not from people he trusts and speaks openly with.

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1 hour ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

True enough, but if you're trying to piece together a theory about the Tourmaline Brotherhood, you're going to run into similar problems. There's not a lot of content to work with, and tinfoil is almost inevitable.

I am humble about my tinfoil. It does come in different degrees of quality.

I don't have a particular attachment to the Tourmaline Brotherhood idea, it is just that there are nagging hints Euron is somehow connected to what went down in Qarth, if only because he now has Pree and company as his prisoners. It doesn't seem out of the question though that there is more to it than just that, and that it was not entirely accidental that he confronted Pree's ship.

And if it turns out there IS more to it, the TB are the ones who are pirates, like him. Possibly rivals, possibly "brothers".

Edited by Hippocras
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15 hours ago, Hippocras said:

We are left of course wondering without answers as to where exactly Euron went and who he spent time with over the past several years before returning. If he captured Pree's boat which had been destined for Pentos to take revenge on Dany, then clearly shortly after Dany left Qarth Euron intercepted Pree somewhere to the West of Qarth and South of Pentos.

Not so clear.  It was also anticipated that they would turn around and follow Dany to Slavers' Bay.  And Euron seeminly arrives at the Iron Islands already knowing that Dany is in Slaver's Bay.

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Dany decided to go to Slaver's Bay while already on the boat. Everyone in Qarth would have believed she was headed for Pentos, because that was the plan when they left harbour. Including Pree and his 3 warlock companions.

So if Euron first heard about Dany and her dragons in or near Qarth (which seems likely because that is where the news got out in general) then it makes sense that he decided to find her on her way to Pentos. Only she did not go to Pentos. So instead Euron ended up with Pree and companions as captives.

The only question is if he just randomly hear the news about Dany like everyone else did, or if he had some connection to Qarth, and indeed to the brotherhood of pirates there.

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20 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

I am thinking on a slightly different tangent regarding the topic, though.

Which is, well, the Tourmaline Brotherhood's connection to this guy.

It is definitely something, but hard to say what. Just more puzzle.

The Tourmaline Emperor came between the Jade one and the Onyx one. The TB gave Dany a crown that had a Jade dragon head, an Onyx dragon head and an Ivory dragon head. That to me, in VERY ambiguous terms, confirm that GRRM is hinting at something. It does not really mean that Euron has no connection to them however. Both things could be true. 

What is interesting in particular if you link the crown to the mythology, is that there is no Ivory in the Emperor chain. What would that mean about Viserion? I don't think we can consider pearl or opal to be equivalent.

Edited by Hippocras
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Whadyaknow. There is already a thread on this sort of. I have not read it, but the title seems like someone else had similar ideas.

Reading through that it has a lot of people randomly speculating. I really don't know the origin of the Shiera Seastar is Qaith notion but it is very popular. It comes up here yet again. I have never actually seen any basis for it.

Edited by Hippocras
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3 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Masked magical woman is bound to be popular for theories. Connecting her to a confirmed beauty who rumors to dabble in witchcraft is not unexpected, just disappointing in its creativity.

That is probably the extent of it, yes.

I am ok with speculations on what might be going on in the East in general branching out from this discussion. While I do hope to understand Euron's role through the discussion, not all of the pieces of the puzzle will directly involve him.

Themes to investigate:

Pirates and pirate associations in general. Alliances, rivalries, places where they have presence.
Pearl, Jade, Tourmaline, Onyx, Topaz, Opal - and Dany's Jade, Onyx and Ivory headed crown.
Bloodstone vs. Amethyst.
Warlocks and shade of the evening.
Crows

Edited by Hippocras
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22 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Maybe the Saan family of Lys is worth investigating? Including the abandoned plot connecting the Blackfyres to Valyrian lore somehow in that family's possession.

I think the Saan family is very interesting indeed, but of all of the pirates in this fictional world, they are probably the only ones we can say with a high degree of certainty have little connection to whatever Euron is up to. The reason I say this is that until very recently Salador Saan was entirely tied up in the affairs of Stannis. He and most of his ships were therefore nowhere near Qarth or Valyria or Euron

Possibly they had crossed paths previously, but during the timeline of the series they have not.

That said I agree something is up with them somehow. Samarro Saan was a member of the Band of Nine, and GRRM addang that detail definitely gives them background that suggests they have a bigger role in the story yet to come. It connects them to Blackfyres, and so possibly to Aegon and the Golden Company. We might therefore conclude that Saan is Euron's pirate rival, destined to fight on the other side in any fight involving Euron.

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30 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

The reason I say this is that until very recently Salador Saan was entirely tied up in the affairs of Stannis.

Though this comment stands for the main series, both Euron and Salador were adults before the AGOT, and Salador is probably already an old man when the very first scene rolls around. Do we have clues that their paths crossed somewhere in the past, or clues their paths had not crossed?

Lml once talked about Euron being Urrathon Night-Walker, so we should be able to conclude Euron has at least sailed to Qarth and made an alter ego for himself there. Maybe Urrathon is Euron's nom de plume amongst the Tourmaline Brotherhood? Perhaps an observer, like Palestine in the UN.

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