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What is Cersei's pettiest action ?


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Amongst the many many petty, spiteful, cruel and vindicative actions and crimes comitted by Cersei, which one would you say is truly her pettiest, lowest action that really shows how vile, childish and twisted she is as person ? 

One candidate I have in mind and that is less known than her most famous crimes and schemes is how she reacted to a puppet show that portrayed her family, under the form of lion puppets, taking over the kingdom of animals (basically Westeros) only to be devoured by a dragon at the end. Her response was to have two of the puppeteers executed, while having the remaining two, who were females, given to Qyburn so he could use them as test subjects for his inhuman experiments. Not only that but she also ordered that those who watched the show have to pay half of their wealth, or to lose an eye if they don't have money, for treason. 

That's one of her actions that really make me want to see her having the most humiliating downfall and a very slow and excruciating death.

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37 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Amongst the many many petty, spiteful, cruel and vindicative actions and crimes comitted by Cersei, which one would you say is truly her pettiest, lowest action that really shows how vile, childish and twisted she is as person ? 

One candidate I have in mind and that is less known than her most famous crimes and schemes is how she reacted to a puppet show that portrayed her family, under the form of lion puppets, taking over the kingdom of animals (basically Westeros) only to be devoured by a dragon at the end. Her response was to have two of the puppeteers executed, while having the remaining two, who were females, given to Qyburn so he could use them as test subjects for his inhuman experiments. Not only that but she also ordered that those who watched the show have to pay half of their wealth, or to lose an eye if they don't have money, for treason. 

That's one of her actions that really make me want to see her having the most humiliating downfall and a very slow and excruciating death.

"who were females" - who were women, the word you are looking for is "women".

Is this topic like the polar opposite of the copy past forums defending Cersei? lol. 

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11 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

No this is a serious thread, not a troll one. 

I don’t believe that person is trolling. Their comments are quite passionate when they aren’t copy/pasting, even if I disagree with them. 

As to this thread not being a troll one, if I was to name Cersei’s worse action, I would say it is giving Falyse to Qyburn OR killing Melera Heatherspoon. Okay, reasoning. She knew them. Unlike many of her other actions, which i would argue are possible because of lack of individuality of the victims (or her personal lack of care for the lower class/value of lower class lives…something she dhares with her father…and brother), both women were high born. She had personal relationships with them. We don’t know what happened with Melara, but we do with Falyse…and it is terrifying. Cersei so casually seals her fate to cover her tracks. A woman she probably dined with countless times. 
 

A note : Since I dislike the focus on just Cersei, Tywin’s most heinous action bonus : Honestly this is easier, it was clearly having Tyrion’s wife raped by all the guards. It is so casually brutal and disturbing. Much like Cersei, he erases the lower classes’s humanity..however I think what separates it is Tyrion is involved and is his son. He knows that Tyrion probably has feelings for this woman even if Tywin was correct and she is “just grasping for Tyrion’s wealth” or whatever. The casualness if having your son’s first crush/first love raped is just too horrific for words, no matter how much you disassociate toward the woman herself. I don’t know, it’s just really horrific (in fact I would argue WORSE than Cersei’s action from an individual pettiness angle). 

Next up Tyrion - Tyrion, unlike Cersei and Tywin claims to not disassociate with the smallfolk. To some extent, this is true. We see him actually care about the deaths of people of the lower class. I would say Tyrion more like gives special privilege to a few of the poor while still acting rather callous ro msot of them, but still. Of course his worst action is raping the slave woman. All this lead up for this, but he recognizes her situation to at least an extent and then goes ahead and rapes her anyways. I’ve talked long enougb about why this action is particularly heinous. 

Petyr Baelish - Petyr claims to love Catelyn Stark, yet he betrays her husband which directly leads to death. He helps a regime he knows will possibly murder her and her children. If i was narrow it to one action : Lying to her about Tyrion and the dagger. There is something uniquely cruel about rhe way he leads Catelyn down a path toward her death all while pretending he loves her. 

Tywin Lannister part 2 - Honestly, let’s talk more about Tywin. I can’t just say the most personally horrible thing, because even when he dissociates whith his victims, he is so callously cruel and vindictive. He committed several familicidies, but I’d say Castamere is clearly the worst. He drowned..hundreds (maybe even thousands?) of people. Casually. Because they laughed at his dad. Horrific. So freaking horrific. You mentioned the death of the puppeteers…rhe Rains of Castamere was essentially that writ large. He also murdered a bunch of people for laughing, joking about the Lannisters. People somehow separate Cersei’s actions, but they have the EXACT same root. Punishing people for laughing at Lannisters. 

Edited by Lord of Raventree Hall
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Killing Melara. She does it at the tender age of ten years old or something just because she expressed a childish wish to marry Jaime. This (along with her treatment of Tyrion) is one of the reasons I don't buy the 'poor Cersei wasn't always evil, she only became evil because...' No. She's murdering her friend when she's ten years old. She's innately a bad person.

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Killing Melara. She does it at the tender age of ten years old or something just because she expressed a childish wish to marry Jaime. This (along with her treatment of Tyrion) is one of the reasons I don't buy the 'poor Cersei wasn't always evil, she only became evil because...' No. She's murdering her friend when she's ten years old. She's innately a bad person.

As you are someone respect, I am beginning to doubt my reading of the text, but I was under the impression Melara was specifically murdered so she wouldn’t talk about the prophecy and it had nothing to do with the crush on Jaime at all. 

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Killing Lady. First off I love dogs, second she knew full well Lady was not the pup that hurt her son, third she also knew that Sansa helped her cover for Joff's behavior, when confronting Robert. So simply because Robert is unwilling to chop off Arya's arm, for the "crime" of hitting Joff with a stick, when he pulled a sword on an innocent boy, Sansa has to lose Lady.

Bang up job on Geroge's part, for making certain I would always hate Cersei.

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1 hour ago, frenin said:

Well her going full Herod is obviously the biggest.

I've always found it sus how Martin uses apologism for Jaime acting against children yet condemns Cersei for the same thing.

Then again, that's one of my biggest gripes with him.

Jaime throwing Bran out the window is honestly one of the most horrible actions in the book, but I think because it is so early in the book...it almost gets forgotten. 

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1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

As you are someone respect, I am beginning to doubt my reading of the text, but I was under the impression Melara was specifically murdered so she wouldn’t talk about the prophecy and it had nothing to do with the crush on Jaime at all. 

I agree that was part of it, but she also says:

Quote

Cersei had not had a friend she so enjoyed since Melara Hetherspoon, and Melara had turned out to be a greedy little schemer with ideas above her station. 

Quote
"I get three questions too," her friend insisted. And when Cersei tugged upon her arm, she wriggled free and turned back to the crone. "Will I marry Jaime?" she blurted out.
You stupid girl, the queen thought, angry even now.

Also, I thought Melara was the one who suggested not talking about the prophecy in order to make it not come true, so I'm not sure it makes sense for Cersei to kill her to stop her talking? I haven't read the book in a while though...

Edited by Craving Peaches
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2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I agree that was part of it, but she also says:

Also, I thought Melara was the one who suggested not talking about the prophecy in order to make it not come true, so I'm not sure it makes sense for Cersei to kill her to stop her talking? I haven't read the book in a while though...

I don't have quotes on hand, but I seem to remember Cersei saying something like she made sure no one could hear about the prophecy (which I took to mean that she murdered Melera to ensure that). I don't know, there must have been TONS of girls with crushes on Jaime. If Cersei was murdering them all, we would have heard about it, lol. Cersei is honestly ironically pretty secure in thinking that Jaime will be loyal to her (despite how bad she treats him). Which is why he is probably going to kill her (The one person she trusted while being paranoid about literally everyone else seems exactly the kind of thing GRRM would do). 

Again, I guess I just read it differently than others do. I wrote killing Melara as one of Cersei's worst actions but more because it was her friend, ...but I think it was a murder out of fear. Hmmm, I guess I am also influence by GRRM's horror writing. Murdering the person who knows about your secret is exactly the kind of things his characters do in his horror novels, lol. I won't spoil anything, but I just reread one of his horror novellas, and this exact same thing happened. 

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18 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Jaime throwing Bran out the window is honestly one of the most horrible actions in the book, but I think because it is so early in the book...it almost gets forgotten. 

Jamie was literally a different person at that point in the story. That's not even a joke, GRRM wrote the character as if he would be a villain, at that point in the story. He didn't change his mind about Jamie until either towards the end of the first book or the second one.

You go back and read those opening chapters and the characters just feel kind of off, IMO. Something just feels strange about them.

Edited by sifth
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Just now, sifth said:

Jamie was literally a different person at that point in the story. That's not even a joke, GRRM wrote the character as if he would be a villain, at that point in the story. He didn't change his mind about Jamie until either towards the end of the first book or the second one.

Yeah, there's leftover foreshadowing for the 'Jaime will murder everyone ahead of him in the line of succession to become King' plotline.

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29 minutes ago, sifth said:

Cersei killing Tyrion's guards is pretty petty as well, now that I think about it. The poor guys were knocked out. In that moment Cersei basically acted like a bond villain, "you failed me, now die", such stupid logic.

Yeah, she seems to think they just fell asleep on the job rather than consider the possibility that someone could have knocked them out or drugged them.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Jaime throwing Bran out the window is honestly one of the most horrible actions in the book, but I think because it is so early in the book...it almost gets forgotten. 

Obviously, Martin quite literally told us to forget about.

My gripe is that he goes out of his way to excuse Jaime while shitting on Cersei.

Truly odd, especially because his excuse is a characterization he simply does not write on Jaime till after he loses his hand.

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I can't remember whether it's in the book and honestly I can't really be bothered to dig out my copy of ASoS to check, especially as I imagine it would have been in AFFC rather than ASoS but did Cersei overrule Margaery on the wedding food going to the poor and redirect it to the kennels in the books, or was that just a show thing? Because if she did, for pure pettiness, I think that's got to be up there.

On 12/5/2023 at 12:22 PM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Again, I guess I just read it differently than others do. I wrote killing Melara as one of Cersei's worst actions but more because it was her friend, ...but I think it was a murder out of fear. Hmmm, I guess I am also influence by GRRM's horror writing. Murdering the person who knows about your secret is exactly the kind of things his characters do in his horror novels, lol. I won't spoil anything, but I just reread one of his horror novellas, and this exact same thing happened. 

On 12/5/2023 at 12:15 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I agree that was part of it, but she also says:

Also, I thought Melara was the one who suggested not talking about the prophecy in order to make it not come true, so I'm not sure it makes sense for Cersei to kill her to stop her talking? I haven't read the book in a while though...

This one I did happen to look at recently. Craving Peaches is right: it's Melara who suggests that if they never tell anyone, it won't come true. Which makes sense, because Maggy's prophecy about Melara was much worse than about Cersei. Cersei came away thinking she'd still marry Rhaegar, and confused about what the prophecy meant for her children, but that's all in the future anyway. Melara was told she was going to die imminently: she's the one who'll have been terrified. Cersei may later have justified her killing of Melara by saying she needed to keep her quiet, but the way she thinks about her suggests her actual motive at the time was jealousy: she thinks about Melara as "a greedy little schemer with ideas above her station", which can only refer to her dreams of marrying Jaime, and gloats about how "she wasn't quiet in the well".

Of course, both Cersei and Melara were dreaming of marrying up, as girls in that situation do. Even accepting that social status is a valid factor in these things, Melara was just as entitled to dream of marrying Jaime as Cersei was of Rhaegar. But that's not how Cersei thinks, of course.

On 12/5/2023 at 12:11 PM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Jaime throwing Bran out the window is honestly one of the most horrible actions in the book, but I think because it is so early in the book...it almost gets forgotten. 

I don't know, I see it mentioned a lot by people who aren't Jaime fans. "Jaime can't be on a redemption arc because what he did to Bran was so terrible!" was a common response to threads about Jaime's redemption arc back when those happened more frequently, completely ignoring what both "redemption" and "arc" mean, of course.

Even I, an unapologetic Jaime fan, bring it up quite a lot when talking about him, because I think it's an important moment in his character development. Firstly because it's the worst thing he ever does, and therefore the nadir from which he has to climb back to acceptability, but also because - even unwittingly, given that as noted above GRRM's thoughts on Jaime changed during the writing process - there's the fascinating detail that his first instinct was to save Bran and it's only after Cersei pipes up that he pushes him: as clear an illustration of Cersei's being the devil on his shoulder as we get.

Edited by Alester Florent
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