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Watch, Watched, Watching: It's Award Season


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It isn't an admission of anything of the sort. As dmc is pointing out it is a message that there is a perception that that was the problem and that he is wanting to change that perception.

He references Black Panther as an example of how to do it right, for crying out loud. 

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1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

It isn't an admission of anything of the sort. As dmc is pointing out it is a message that there is a perception that that was the problem and that he is wanting to change that perception.

He references Black Panther as an example of how to do it right, for crying out loud. 

Sorry that's wrong. He doesn't say anything about perception. He speaks directly to what creators have done, not the perception of what they have done. 

Is this a case of you literally making shit up again?

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Maestro

I found this boring. I guess I'm just not sophisticated enough for movies like this. Amazing performance from Bradley Cooper though.

Leave the World Behind

Started off great with a lot of suspense and an ominous tone, then began to drag more and more as the plot devolved into unnecessary philosophical conversations.

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37 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Sorry that's wrong. He doesn't say anything about perception. He speaks directly to what creators have done, not the perception of what they have done. 

Is this a case of you literally making shit up again?

He doesn't need to say anything about perception directly. It is a ceo talking to shareholders - it is always going to be that first and foremost.

One indication of this is that he gives zero actual examples of what was done wrongly. He only indicates how it was done right - with black panther. You of all people who have rallied against that movie should get how silly this argument is here. If black panther is an example of Disney doing it right, what does it mean to focus less on the message and more on entertainment? 

But anyway no, he doesn't speak directly to what creators have done - he speaks indirectly to it. Direct would him saying "the marvels was about messaging and not a good story" or something like that. You saying that he addressed it directly is, however, an example of you making shit up again.

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20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

One indication of this is that he gives zero actual examples of what was done wrongly. He only indicates how it was done right - with black panther. You of all people who have rallied against that movie should get how silly this argument is here. If black panther is an example of Disney doing it right, what does it mean to focus less on the message and more on entertainment? 

Lol, he's not going to shit on any movie specifically is he! That would be very bad.

He literally says 'Creators have lost sight of what their No.1 objective needed to be', I'm not sure how much clearer he could be. He could have just denied that creators were putting 'the message' ahead of story telling, and just said they needed to work against the 'perception' that it's what they are doing.

He didn't though, he said they have lost sight and that they are going to return to their roots. He wouldn't need to do anything if this was all just a matter of perception, perception could be changed. The messaging had been going on, you don't even need to be Bob Iger to see it, just go watch some Disney content. 

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Just now, Heartofice said:

Lol, he's not going to shit on any movie specifically is he! That would be very bad.

He literally says 'Creators have lost sight of what their No.1 objective needed to be', I'm not sure how much clearer he could be. He could have just denied that creators were putting 'the message' ahead of story telling, and just said they needed to work against the 'perception' that it's what they are doing. 


He didn't though, he said they have lost sight and that they are going to return to their roots. He wouldn't need to do anything if this was all just a matter of perception, perception could be changed. The messaging had been going on, you don't even need to be Bob Iger to see it, just go watch some Disney content. 

Right. So let's analyze what this statement means.

He is saying publicly that unnamed creators have lost sight of what their objective should be. Does this identify what they did wrong? Does it identify what creators are culpable? Does it identify what messages were problematic and caused less entertainment? You take it as a win against feminist messaging. Other folks are going to take it as a win against LGBT messaging (like the whole Florida lawsuits). Other folks might take it as a win against casting diverse talent. Others might take it as a win against DIsney having shitty action stories like Star Wars. It is vague, indirect, and is not at all something that can be guaranteed to be against any or all of those things. That is why it isn't a direct statement, and why it is meant to combat the perception of an issue. It's quite good in that way - because all of you people can view this as directly confirming your biases and he says absolutely nothing important. 

As to the rest of your statement - again, you've been saying this about Black Panther and Captain Marvel - both of which made over a billion dollars and both had very explicit messaging, and one of which Iger directly DID call out in that talk as an example of doing it right. The obvious takeaway is that Bob Iger wants to make movies that make money. 

Another example of how insane this idea is that this confirms anything - the Percy Jackson series that Disney has put out is chock full of diversity, inclusion, changes characters' backgrounds to make them more diverse from the books and has a lot of people of your flavor upset about it. It also is breaking records for viewership on Disney+. Do you think Bob Iger is upset about the messaging there?

 

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5 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Does it identify what messages were problematic and caused less entertainment? 

No, and he’s wise to not call them out specifically because that would create more problems than it would solve. I’ve no idea why you think would be more specific, that would be suicidal.

He’s simply admitting that a practice has been going on in the past and saying that it will change. If he didn’t think it was actually happening he would have phrased it differently.
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No, and he’s wise to not call them out specifically because that would create more problems than it would solve. I’ve no idea why you think would be more specific, that would be suicidal.

He’s simply admitting that a practice has been going on in the past and saying that it will change. If he didn’t think it was actually happening he would have phrased it differently.

Again, he's not admitting anything because he doesn't specify anything - both in terms of what was a problem before and what will be done differently. 

If he didn't think it was happening but he wanted to assure people who DO think it's happening - like you - then he wouldn't phrase it any differently at all. Because when you're not actually changing much but you want people to think you're changing things, you act as vague and indirectly as you are able to. He recognizes that there are a number of Republicans and conservatives like yourself who have bought into the culture war and are spending less on Disney, and he wants them to be placated. He also recognizes that Disney has had a slump for a whole year and can use this as a way to turn things around potentially, without having to say anything about what he's doing differently. 

Again, if Black Panther is a 'win' for Iger what do you think is going to be different about how things are being done in the future compared to how they were done last year? What do you actually think is going to change based on Iger's statement? Let's have you predict things and then see how well you do. I'm betting that everything you predict will be absolutely wrong. 

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20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Again, he's not admitting anything because he doesn't specify anything - both in terms of what was a problem before and what will be done differently. 

If he didn't think it was happening but he wanted to assure people who DO think it's happening - like you - then he wouldn't phrase it any differently at all. Because when you're not actually changing much but you want people to think you're changing things, you act as vague and indirectly as you are able to. He recognizes that there are a number of Republicans and conservatives like yourself who have bought into the culture war and are spending less on Disney, and he wants them to be placated. He also recognizes that Disney has had a slump for a whole year and can use this as a way to turn things around potentially, without having to say anything about what he's doing differently. 

Again, if Black Panther is a 'win' for Iger what do you think is going to be different about how things are being done in the future compared to how they were done last year? What do you actually think is going to change based on Iger's statement? Let's have you predict things and then see how well you do. I'm betting that everything you predict will be absolutely wrong. 

Look, this is going around in circles. Iger HAS admitted creators put the message over entertainment. Those are his literal words. 
 

Your argument is simply that you don’t believe him, or he’s just saying it to please his audience. Fine if you choose to believe that,  but the actual content of his words are an admission, it’s not even up for debate.

Anyway, I’m done, I’m going to go watch She-Hulk do some twerking on loop.

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

The point is even Bob Iger is admitting that's what they've been doing for the past few years. So I'm not sure why you are so adamant they haven't been pushing a woke agenda, when they have admitted to doing it. 

Bob Iger is synonymous with cutting things that promote diversity even if they don't affect profits. It's what he's done with ESPN and now I guess Disney in general.  

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6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Look, this is going around in circles. Iger HAS admitted creators put the message over entertainment. Those are his literal words. 

No, what Iger has been saying is artists should prioritize profits, not art. He's exactly what is wrong with the entertainment world today. 

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12 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Frank Miller wrote 300, and he absolutely meant it to show how Real Men of Sparta behave and how their ideals were the best ones. If anything the movie played a lot of these parts down from the book. But most of it is meant to be exactly what it looks like - the weird perverse hordes of dark skinned people dying at the hands of the oddly white, naked buff Greeks because democracy is awesome and stuff despite Sparta not being one and mostly being a slave state.

While being 100% wrong, as military historians have shown. Brett Deveraux tends to point out this silliness of the undefeated utterly brilliant Spartan most manly of manliness to the outrage of So Many, who keep bringing up 300 as 100% TRUTH.  :D  Brett's compiled endless sources and written many, many words on this topic, even on his own blog, Unmitigated Pedantry.

 

12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Polarized reviews but I voutch. 

And whenever you're free, March or thereon, ask away!

BTW, I'm not sure yet, but while traveling at this time I'm thinking the downloaded book I'll take will be Ponniyin Selvan, Book 1 Fresh Floods, to read while waiting in lines.  There won't be much time for reading, in company with All Our Travelers, who have have such interesting things to talk about, even above and beyond our experiences in Spain. It won't be easy to have so many accomplished and achieving and intelligent and well-informed, well-traveled, and compatible people in a single group of 30+.  Must take advantage! :cheers:

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34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Look, this is going around in circles. Iger HAS admitted creators put the message over entertainment. Those are his literal words. 

Sure, without anything concrete, without any specific callouts, and without any real statement of action. To use one of the better quotes from a Disney property: I find that statement vague and unconvincing. 

34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Your argument is simply that you don’t believe him, or he’s just saying it to please his audience. Fine if you choose to believe that,  but the actual content of his words are an admission, it’s not even up for debate.

It is up for a debate and clearly people are debating it. You saying something does not mean it's true, especially given that you're wrong. 

I believe him fine in terms that he believes there's a problem with Disney and that he also believes that there are enough people that buy into it that it's an issue for him. I don't believe that there have been particularly specific messaging put into Disney that go beyond them wanting to sell stuff, and I don't think that'll change much. What will likely change is fewer series, more movies, and less scattershot stuff. But in terms of diversity and messaging? Heh, no. Barbie made a billion dollars, Disney is going to copy that to the max.

 

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What the fuck is in the water over there in the US? 

Back to the topic at hand: what you've watched or are watching.

Me, started Masters of the Air, the Spielberg-Hanks WWII TV series, this time about B-17 bomber pilots. It's solid but lacks the immediacy of what Band of Brothers and The Pacific had, so far. 

Think I'm going to see Poor Things tomorrow.

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The FBI in its various ways available or other managed to contribute to the lovely tv series, White Collar (2009-2014).  I loved the show because of the actors, particularly Bomer, Garson and DeKay and their relationships and the very sharp episodic writing, but it was quite clear the message hoped the audience would take away is how sweet and cuddly is the FBI during a period in which its public image was not that.

But there is The Americans (2013- 2018), which I absolutely did not love, and could not watch, literally because nothing could get me to want to love Russians seeking to destroy the USA, despite whoever was in various ways helping bankroll it.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

what Iger has been saying is artists should prioritize profits, not art.

Just like Boeing kept ordering everyone to prioritize profits not safety!  And for years even!

BTW, Forrest Gump was adapted from a novel (1986) by Winston Groom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Groom which had a fair influence presumably on the film's script.

I hated the film, and only watched it because my stupid BIL thought it would be a good family evening with all of us together while mom was dying of cancer.  She was there.  It didn't work out well for her.

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