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Rings of Power 5: I Will Take the Thread to Reddit


HexMachina
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The producers and writers didn't read the books, that's cleat, I can understand you have no rights on The Silmarillion and other books about the Eldar, but they are important to understand the customs of elves .

House of the Dragon producer is GRRM fan and he knows the content of F&B , that's the main difference

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2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Absolutely. They're two different projects with different methods of conveying and communicating a story, across two different mediums. 

It's just a show and it's just a book. Take not these things overly seriously and try to find joy and good things in stuff. (Yes, it is possible to be critical of stuff and still enjoy it. For goodness sake, I adore the Fast and Furious movies, and they are transcendentally stupid at times. But gloriously so.)

But the fact is that the show is poorly made. Dialogues are stupid, the whole plotline does not really stand up to scrutiny, acting is not really top-notch... There's a lot of issues there, even if we do manage to completely separate the book and the show. I couldn't really watch this show for long. I don't think I've seen a single episode from start to finish. 

I'm not taking this show seriously at all. That's exactly the problem.

P.S. Fast and Furious movies are mindless fun. Fast cars, explosions, over the top action sequences, 2000 gears gearboxes etc. What's not to like? The difference is that they are not trying to present themselves as anything but that and it works.

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2 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

I was talking about the movies, then there is no need to tell you about that cultural movement, it's eviden, everyone knows.

Different franchise, same cultural movement, changed plot and characters and failures.

I can see a pattern in Hollywood nowadays

“Everyone knows”… is a cop out.  I don’t know… Derfal doesn’t know.  Hell, “street repaving” or “drainage ditch clearing issues” in Hampton County South Carolina also count as “American Politics”.  Please dispense with the glittering generalizations… and tell us specifically what you mean when you say “American Politics”? 

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2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

It's just a show and it's just a book. Take not these things overly seriously and try to find joy and good things in stuff. (Yes, it is possible to be critical of stuff and still enjoy it. For goodness sake, I adore the Fast and Furious movies, and they are transcendentally stupid at times. But gloriously so.)

Without getting personal I think there is an element of the ‘soft bigotry of low expectations’ here. There is a tendency to just handwave objectively poor quality elements of writing, acting and directing, because it’s ’just a bit of fun’. 
 

Well firstly, I’d challenge anyone who says RoP was fun. Secondly why should we set the bar so low as to compare a LotR show to Fast and the Furious. It should be so much better on any number of levels than that. It’s just insulting to audiences to suggest that they should be happy to be served a plate of shit because it’s wrapped in bright colours. 
 

I mention this because it’s been your defence of a number of objectively bad movies and shows and I don’t think it’s something you can apply here ( it’s not a defence of The Marvels either)

Why shouldn’t Tolkien fans take a show like RoP seriously? I’m really not a book nerd and found Silmarillion unreadable, but I absolutely understand why fans would feel aggrieved by the raw stupidity of RoP. If you are a fan of something and an adaptation totally runs roughshod over it, you totally should be annoyed by it.

RoP is a equal opportunity offender though. You don’t need to be a fan to be bored by it, or notice its flaws.

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11 minutes ago, baxus said:

P.S. Fast and Furious movies are mindless fun. Fast cars, explosions, over the top action sequences, 2000 gears gearboxes etc. What's not to like? The difference is that they are not trying to present themselves as anything but that and it works.

Cars that you can drive in space… like cars on the ground…

:shocked:

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8 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

The producers and writers didn't read the books, that's cleat, I can understand you have no rights on The Silmarillion and other books about the Eldar, but they are important to understand the customs of elves .

The appendix in The Lord of the Rings is the only source material they could use. 

Also, literally nothing outside of Rings and the Hobbit matters as Tolkien never finished any of iy enough to have a unified and consistent 'verse. Dude was pulling a Prince before Prince Prince'd, with an intensely pink mansion full of unreleased records. 

Good for you if you care, but legally, if they read something and accidentaly included material, references, etc., to material outside what they were allowed to use, the lawsuits would suck.

So knowing that, I get why Rings of Power is such a deviation. So make peace with this and enjoy the bizarro world Tolkien fanfic and Bear's magnificent music for what it is. There's no point in comparing it to inconsistent texts that it couldn't reference in the first place. 

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12 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

So knowing that, I get why Rings of Power is such a deviation. So make peace with this and enjoy the bizarro world Tolkien fanfic and Bear's magnificent music for what it is. There's no point in comparing it to inconsistent texts that it couldn't reference in the first place. 

Why compress the timeline they absolutely had rights to?  Why change completely the events of the timeline they have rights to?  That is what I fundamentally do not understand.

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5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Without getting personal I think there is an element of the ‘soft bigotry of low expectations’ here. There is a tendency to just handwave objectively poor quality elements of writing, acting and directing, because it’s ’just a bit of fun’. 

Dude, inappropriate analogy as we're not discussing racial biases in engagement with expensive fanfic. I get what you were aiming for, intent-wise, but that's a loaded term inappropriate to the topic.

Is it a bit of fun? Eh. Exceedingly dumb and bewilderingly incomprehensible fun? Sure. 

Look, it's garbage, but it's pretty garbage with a weird business context that informs what it can present.

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well firstly, I’d challenge anyone who says RoP was fun.

Eh. I found it easy enough to watch and found some fun in it. It's flawed for sure, but I found fun enough among the eight episodes.

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Secondly why should we set the bar so low as to compare a LotR show to Fast and the Furious. It should be so much better on any number of levels than that. It’s just insulting to audiences to suggest that they should be happy to be served a plate of shit because it’s wrapped in bright colours. 

We don't have to do anything. One can enjoy something outrageously silly that's full of plot holes and logic leapa and the like and still enjoy it. 

Like Fast and Furious movies, which is my go-to example, because OH GODS THEY SHOT A CAR INTO SPACE. 

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mention this because it’s been your defence of a number of objectively bad movies and shows and I don’t think it’s something you can apply here ( it’s not a defence of The Marvels either)

Why shouldn’t Tolkien fans take a show like RoP seriously? I’m really not a book nerd and found Silmarillion unreadable, but I absolutely understand why fans would feel aggrieved by the raw stupidity of RoP. If you are a fan of something and an adaptation totally runs roughshod over it, you totally should be annoyed by it.

Tolkien fans can do what they like, naturally. I'm a lifelong Tolkien nerd (hell, my wedding band is the one ring. And lordy if you saw what me and the wife wore...! Happy to DM you some adorable wedding pics if you like!), and I am friends with longtime Tolkien fans. 

But we know the weirdo business reality of the show and treat it as shiny, dumb, badly-realised fanfic.

I take more umbrage with people like Whassisname, thar Aerys or whatever fellow, for categorial, unnuanced, universalist statements that border on the most noxious of all traits: snobbery.

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

RoP is a equal opportunity offender though. You don’t need to be a fan to be bored by it, or notice its flaws.

Oh it has SO many. The Valinor water dive. The Numenoran battle ship sizes in relation to the soldier numbers, the weirdo armor, the awful anti-elf thing in episode 3? 4? 

So much badness. 

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7 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why compress the timeline they absolutely had rights to?  Why change completely the events of the timeline they have rights to?  That is what I fundamentally do not understand.

They wanted to ensure narrative flow, per instructions from the Tolkien estate, which is a strange bit of reasoning. See article for more:

https://screenrant.com/rings-power-timeline-compression-canon-issues-showrunner-response/

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7 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Like Fast and Furious movies, which is my go-to example, because OH GODS THEY SHOT A CAR INTO SPACE. 

I hate stupid for stupid’s sake… that was so incredibly mind numbingly stupid and people ate it up.  It completely breaks any possibility of “willing suspension of disbelief”.

I cannot shut my brain off to that degree… without stopping all autonomic functions of my body as well.  

There is no way to make that even a little bit “believable”.

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Snobbery is also a logical reaction to a show that took itself quite seriously. If there had been more humor in it, I might be indulgent enough to see it as mindless fun. But the abundance of serious/tragic moments in this show, combined with visual grandeur/aesthetics and over-the-top action sequences (at least for a first season imho) make it closer to a money-grabbing parody than a respectful homage.

I believe I smiled way more watching Peter Jackon's Fellowship than the entire season of RoP.

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10 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

I never imagined those movies were meant to be believable?!

I said this about Denis Villeneuve’s bizarre justifications for choosing to film Geidi Prime’s exterior scenes in black and white in Dune: Part 2 (he claims the laws of physics work differently in fhe GP system and light from that star has no color there).  Choosing to film in black and white on GP is an interesting stylistic choice… I rather liked it… until… Villeneuve gave that bizarre rationalization.

That absolutely sounds like the gibberish a college freshman might utter after taking one too many bong hits.  It completely pulls me out of the story… the rules of physics are universal or they aren’t the rules of physics.  I would rather he hadn’t offered that explanation and just made the choice about style than screw up my viewing with that nonsensical crap.

The same is true of a car in maneuvering with the steering wheel, accelerator, and brake pedel… in orbit around Earth.  It is absolutely a non-starter… it… cannot work.  Maybe I know too much about that kind of thing to be able to enjoy that… I don’t know.  But… too much stupid just destroys a story for me.  

I cannot imagine I’m the only person for whom this is the case.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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57 minutes ago, baxus said:

But the fact is that the show is poorly made. Dialogues are stupid, the whole plotline does not really stand up to scrutiny, acting is not really top-notch... There's a lot of issues there, even if we do manage to completely separate the book and the show. I couldn't really watch this show for long. I don't think I've seen a single episode from start to finish.

The production value doesn't look so good either especially given the enormous budget. We got some nice sweeping shots on Numenor but in general the set design and cinematography made everything seem really small scale. There was no 'epic' feel whatsoever like what the movies managed to achieve.

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Just now, KingAerys_II said:

It's woke garbage , same pattern in Star Wars, Marvel, Disney , different franchise , same pattern , same results

What makes it “woke garbage” as opposed to just “garbage”?  What are you claiming is “woke”.

Please be specific.

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6 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

The production value doesn't look so good either especially given the enormous budget. We got some nice sweeping shots on Numenor but in general the set design and cinematography made everything seem really small scale. There was no 'epic' feel whatsoever like what the movies managed to achieve.

The films frequently made Middle Earth feel very small.

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