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Rings of Power 5: I Will Take the Thread to Reddit


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6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Nah, there is no problem at all. It’s fine to enjoy RoP, if you get something out of it. But it absolutely isn’t ’dumb fun’ because it was not intentionally created to be dumb fun. 

100% STRONG AGREE. 

I know there are whiffs of literary pretentions, a desire to be a watercooler show, and wanting to compete with GoT and WoT and whatever else is out there. 

I Could Not Agree With You More. 

It's *absolutely* not meant to be dumb fun, but that's unfortunately what they ultimately created. 

Like, is there *anyone* who doesn't wince at how wildly sociopathic and indifferent every single culture is on Arda in this show? Is there anyone who doesn't find Poppy Proudfellow to be infuriatingly annoying and obnoxious? Is there a single good reason for this JJ Abrams mystery box bullshit with what is *clearly* an Istari? (No, the answer is no, it's dumb and pointless to have this Stranger shtick go on for eight whole episodes). 

A lot of things here are really not thought out in the least. But the show at least managed to hire actors who throw themselves into their roles and take them seriously and are watchable. Even Brooding Young Isildur is interesting to watch, as is Lenny f'n Henry.

Look, the show is a marching army of bad decisions, and it doesn't feel like it understands Tolkien at all, but it's well made, Bear's music is fucking amazing (I worship at the Cult of McCreary, we meet every Tuesday and have cookies; all are welcome!) and I really enjoy the chemistry and banter between Galadriel and Halbrand. The actors in those roles have a good rhythm and, well, chemistry, between them. 

And despite the utter, utter stupidity of where episode eight leaves viewers, I still think that there's room for growth and improvement. If Babylon 5 and TNG could somehow make it to vastly improved second seasons, so can Rings of Power. I can forgive freshman errors as long as they learn from it - which both shows did, as did the recent second season of WoT. 

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Galadriel is described as tall and beautiful even among the Eldar , she is strong in sorcery, she is able to see virtue inside people heart and she is the only person that told to Celebrimbor not to trust Annatar .
She has always been the wisest elf and suppressed every desire to have her own kingdom for the sake of Middle Earth , she helped Men in their struggle against Sauron .
Tv series Galadriel is a good soldier, and she has masculine traits  but for some reason she represents female empowerment

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22 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Galadriel is described as tall and beautiful even among the Eldar , she is strong in sorcery, she is able to see virtue inside people heart and she is the only person that told to Celebrimbor not to trust Annatar .
She has always been the wisest elf and suppressed every desire to have her own kingdom for the sake of Middle Earth , she helped Men in their struggle against Sauron .
Tv series Galadriel is a good soldier, and she has masculine traits  but for some reason she represents female empowerment

So “woke American politics” is female empowerment and women having masculine traits like being a good soldier?  Got it. 

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12 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Look, the show is a marching army of bad decisions, and it doesn't feel like it understands Tolkien at all, but it's well made, Bear's music is fucking amazing (I worship at the Cult of McCreary, we meet every Tuesday and have cookies; all are welcome!) and I really enjoy the chemistry and banter between Galadriel and Halbrand. The actors in those roles have a good rhythm and, well, chemistry, between them. 

I would even disagree on most of those points too. The show has the occasional nice looking standlone shot, has some big sets.. but so much of it looks like people walking around a set. Unfortunately it will be compared to Jackson's trilogy, but it looks worse on every level. 

Maybe the music is good, I have to be honest and say I barely noticed it, my only recollection was it was a bit like Howard Shore's work (which really is iconic and incredible) but didn't even come close. That I didn't notice it is not a good sign.

I'm not sure what this chemistry you talk of is, I certainly didn't see any evidence of it in the show. There were some flashes of chemistry between characters during it's run time, Elrond and Durin was fine, but those scenes stood out because it was one of the only times it happened in the season. 

So overall I still don't see what there is to enjoy about this show. In a world of 3million tv shows released per minute, I'm not sure there is much to recommend. 

12 hours ago, IlyaP said:

And despite the utter, utter stupidity of where episode eight leaves viewers, I still think that there's room for growth and improvement. If Babylon 5 and TNG could somehow make it to vastly improved second seasons, so can Rings of Power. I can forgive freshman errors as long as they learn from it - which both shows did, as did the recent second season of WoT. 

We can hope, they appear to be making changes higher up the structure which suggests they realised there was a problem. It's pretty rare for shows to actually get better or be given the time to do so. 

10 minutes ago, hauberk said:

So “woke American politics” is female empowerment and women having masculine traits like being a good soldier?  Got it. 

The trope is so overdone that I can see the connection.

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47 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Galadriel is described as tall and beautiful even among the Eldar , she is strong in sorcery, she is able to see virtue inside people heart and she is the only person that told to Celebrimbor not to trust Annatar .
She has always been the wisest elf and suppressed every desire to have her own kingdom for the sake of Middle Earth , she helped Men in their struggle against Sauron .

As others have emphasized, this is what we see at the end of the third age/during the time of the LOTR.  But it's decidedly not the character depicted by Tolkien in earlier times/ages.  I can't defend the show, but to depict her as the "wisest elf [that] suppressed every desire" at this stage in her journey would be even more flagrant fanfic than what you're complaining about.

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It's pretty rare for shows to actually get better

It's really not.  Plenty of shows get better as they find their footing.  It's incredibly common and there are myriad examples of this, but I hesitate to list the obvious examples because, granted, the ones off the top of my head ended up being much better shows than this ever hopes to be.

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37 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I would even disagree on most of those points too. The show has the occasional nice looking standlone shot, has some big sets.. but so much of it looks like people walking around a set. Unfortunately it will be compared to Jackson's trilogy, but it looks worse on every level. 

And maybe this is something that depends on each viewer, but I never thought of anything as sets. Honestly I was being more of a jerk and looking for crappy CGI, like what we see in Marvel movies. 

But as far as my engagement with the sets go, I never once thought I was looking at sets.

37 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Maybe the music is good, I have to be honest and say I barely noticed it, my only recollection was it was a bit like Howard Shore's work (which really is iconic and incredible) but didn't even come close. That I didn't notice it is not a good sign.

This is my area of personal interest. I am a soundtrack *superfreak* and collect extended scores, game scores, etc. 

There are numerous leitmotifs that Bear created for the dwarves, Middle-earth, the aformentioned slapper for Numenor, which is a big choral and violin 3:4 piece, the Brandyfoots, etc. 

It is there, but I can understand how someone watchingn and not enjoying the show wouldn''t be stopping and saying "wow that choral progression and female vocal work is really something!" 

(And yes, I *was* trying to shamelessly elicit at least a giggle out of you!) 

And the episodic scores Bear released? Of course I have them. (I even own all the scores from the MMO composed by Chance Thomas.) I am a soundtrack supernerd, hear me, uh...musicify? 

37 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I'm not sure what this chemistry you talk of is, I certainly didn't see any evidence of it in the show. There were some flashes of chemistry between characters during it's run time, Elrond and Durin was fine, but those scenes stood out because it was one of the only times it happened in the season

I think this is something that will also vary per viewer. I personally enjoyed the back and forth banter between Halbrand and Galadriel, but as always, degustibus non est disputandum, eh? 

Also, goodness the work that Robert Aramayo puts into his interpretation took awhile to grow on me, but won me over in the end. 

Though what's with the beard makeup for the dwarves? In particular: what exactly is going on with their moustaches? As a bearded guy, I cannot understand what's going on there, and find it follically confusing.

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37 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's incredibly common and there are myriad examples of this, but I hesitate to list the obvious examples because, granted, the ones off the top of my head ended up being much better shows than this ever hopes to be.

Farscape. Blake's 7. Doctor Who. Babylon 5. Many of the Star Treks. Mash. Seinfeld. Mad About You. Game of Thrones. Fringe. The Expanse. Agents of Shield. Red Dwarf. 

Just to name a few.

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42 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's really not.  Plenty of shows get better as they find their footing.  It's incredibly common and there are myriad examples of this, but I hesitate to list the obvious examples because, granted, the ones off the top of my head ended up being much better shows than this ever hopes to be.

Oh I know there are some famous examples of shows getting better. But the overwhelming majority of shows do not get better, that is why it's so easy to point out the famous ones where it occurred (TNG, Picard season 3, Seinfeld etc etc) Most shit shows are shit and stay shit, or they get cancelled. 

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Most shit shows are shit and stay shit, or they get cancelled. 

And then there's GoT and X-Files and Lost, which improved and then...uh...stopped...improving. :D

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

These are real head scratchers for me. Game of Thrones in particular got worse as time went on, not better. Season one is one of the best. 

I'd rank S4 as peak GOT, and then, uh...you know. <Swan dive sounds>

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1 minute ago, IlyaP said:

And then there's GoT and X-Files and Lost, which improved and then...uh...stopped...improving. :D

The point is, think of all the millions of shit shows that have been released over the years. Only a tiny percentage ever get the chance to actually improve. It's incredibly rare. There is a reason everyone can bring up the same old examples of shows that got better over time, because its rare. 

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27 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The point is, think of all the millions of shit shows that have been released over the years. Only a tiny percentage ever get the chance to actually improve. It's incredibly rare. There is a reason everyone can bring up the same old examples of shows that got better over time, because its rare. 

I'll see your cynicism and raise you my endless, boundless, puppy-like optimism! :)

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6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Oh I know there are some famous examples of shows getting better. But the overwhelming majority of shows do not get better, that is why it's so easy to point out the famous ones where it occurred (TNG, Picard season 3, Seinfeld etc etc) Most shit shows are shit and stay shit, or they get cancelled. 

I mean, shitty shows that are given at best a fleeting chance to begin with get cancelled, sure.  Which is why this would be pretty hard to operationalize if anyone tried.  In other words, this would be something really hard to quantify.  

But if given the opportunity for whatever reason, I'd say many if not most shows improve upon their original output.  Ultimately yes, of course, in the specific case of ROP I "base this on absolutely nothing," but generally I think it's pretty well-founded when we're talking about shows that get that chance.  Which, obviously, ROP is granted that opportunity whether it deserves it or not.

It also could go south!  That's probably just as likely.  Just saying it's granted that opportunity (unfairly due to the necessary investment) and I'll give it another shot if only for that reason.

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13 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, shitty shows that are given at best a fleeting chance to begin with get cancelled, sure.  Which is why this would be pretty hard to operationalize if anyone tried.  In other words, this would be something really hard to quantify.  

Sure, my point is that we tend to remember the shows that got better because it's a noteworthy achievement. Some of the best shows are ones that had rocky starts. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't happen all that often. In fact often the opposite happens, how many shows start out strong but get worse in the second season! 

Look I'm open to the idea that RoP gets much better in season 2. In fact I would expect it to improve, not get worse. I don't expect it to hit the heights that will make it a good show however. It's really hard to steer such a big ship and turn it around. The best shows that started badly, were able to make big changes and overhaul what they were doing in some way. I don't see Rings of Power bringing in Danny deVito, even if he would make an excellent Hobbit.

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45 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

It is there, but I can understand how someone watchingn and not enjoying the show wouldn''t be stopping and saying "wow that choral progression and female vocal work is really something!"

I did find the time to appreciate the music, because everything else was so bad. :rolleyes:

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