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Jon Connington, a compromised leader.


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Posted (edited)

A recent talk show on youtube released an episode yesterday talking about Jon Connington.  I thought I would post about that and delay my second article on Arya Stark for better timing.  

It's hard to trust Jon Connington because he has issues which compromise his thinking.  It already has.  He is a carrier of a deadly disease and still decided to return to Westeros with Griff.  Feelings compromise his behavior.  He feels guilt over Rhaegar and the fall of the Targaryens.  He feels he can make it up with the son.  He loves Griff as a father loves a son.  Those strong feelings lead him to take inappropriate risks.  

I don't think Griff will get Greyscale.  He has to live long enough to meet Daenerys and learn the truth.  But the Greyscale will spread though.  Jon will spread Greyscale in the South.  The other Jon will spread the Others in the North.  The Southerners get "stoned." The Northerners get wighted.  How is that for a bleak future!  Jon Con is the entry point of Greyscale in the South.  Jon Snow is the same for Wights in the North. 

The Pale Mare outbreak in Meereen is a very good training experience for Daenerys.  I think she will know how to deal with an epidemic by the time she is ready to leave for Westeros.  She will have put together a formidable council and her forces will have grown.  Her dragons will have also put on significant size and magnified their power. 

Edited by H Wadsworth Longfellow
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I could post this in the young Griff topic but it is just as relevant here. How would Jon feel when he finds out the boy is not Rhaegar’s. He brought the plague and got people killed for a fake.  
 

Aegon’s team is made up of people who kill for their ideology. Like Varys killing Ser Kevan. Jon hiding the plague. He is not getting a happy ever after ending. 

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And from a smoking tower a stone beast takes flight breathing shadow fire.

Aegon is the beast breathing shadow fire.  Shadow fire is another way of saying Blackfire.  This is leading me to believe the boy will get infected with greyscale.  The Citadel is the smoking tower.  Aegon and his men will burn the Citadel.  To take flight is to ascend to power.  He will put the Citadel to the torch and proclaim himself the king. 

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Connignton is selfish and sociopathic enough to conceal greyscale. He'll kill Faegon himself when he finds out he's been duped and then he'll carry on spreading. The man is a destroyer.

It's a good thing though, because Dany is going to bring brownleg to Westeros and it will be revealed that the only cure is a little bit of greyscale below the belt to reinforce containment.

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23 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Connignton is selfish and sociopathic enough to conceal greyscale. He'll kill Faegon himself when he finds out he's been duped and then he'll carry on spreading. The man is a destroyer.

It's a good thing though, because Dany is going to bring brownleg to Westeros and it will be revealed that the only cure is a little bit of greyscale below the belt to reinforce containment.

What's selfish or sociopathic about hiding a terminal disease that can't be spread by touch or air or blood?

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

What's selfish or sociopathic about hiding a terminal disease that can't be spread by touch or air or blood?

I don't think we know this for sure. We don't know enough about it to determine whether it's contagious or no, or if one's immune system can fight it off. Both the Maesters and the Free Folk have their own theories about it. For all we know, it can sit dormant in one's system for years before the infection begins, or even reappears. All of that aside, we hear of three different versions of it. 

  • The kind that children seem to catch while living in a damp climate, mostly non-lethal, but it does leave them physically scarred. Whether it's a disease that can be cured, or simply left dormant, is still up in the air.
  • The more lethal version (especially for adults) that appears to spread through psychical contact. It is canonically believed to be contagious by everyone.
  • And then there's the grey plague. A "cousin" of greyscale that spreads more rapidly from person to person.

Val, and I'm assuming the rest of the Free Folk, lump all of these together and believe it to be deadly and very contagious. Even if it has been dormant for years, as is the case for Shireen. However, they immediately kill victims at the first sign of infection, so it's not like they've taken the time to do their research. Perhaps they remember a time when they were inflicted by the grey plague, but assume it's the same as greyscale. As of now, we as the readers have no evidence that a dormant greyscale (in Shireen's case) can "reawaken". It's possible that this might be the case, but we've yet to see it or even hear of it.

And then we're still left to wonder how Jon became infected while Tyrion didn't. Was it a mix of the damp climate and poor immune system that caused Jon's infection? Was psychical contact part of the cause? I think the main reason Jon caught it and Tyrion didn't is simply for development purposes by George. My own theory is that the second greyscale is contagious, but difficult to catch. It is rare, after all. But as far as characters in the story are concerned, this is a contagious disease. Even Jon believes it to be.

However, I do say all of this while maintaining the opinion that Jon's greyscale probably won't hurt anyone. I think George might be saving that storyline for the Wall. Perhaps the grey plague will break out over there, and someone will blame Shireen for a disease that she didn't actually spread.

 

Edited by Ser Arthurs Dawn
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44 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I don't think we know this for sure. We don't know enough about it to determine whether it's contagious or no, or if one's immune system can fight it off. Both the Maesters and the Free Folk have their own theories about it. For all we know, it can sit dormant in one's system for years before the infection begins, or even reappears. All of that aside, we hear of three different versions of it. 

  • The kind that children seem to catch while living in a damp climate, mostly non-lethal, but it does leave them physically scarred. Whether it's a disease that can be cured, or simply left dormant, is still up in the air.
  • The more lethal version (especially for adults) that appears to spread through psychical contact. It is canonically believed to be contagious by everyone.
  • And then there's the grey plague. A "cousin" of greyscale that spreads more rapidly from person to person.

Val, and I'm assuming the rest of the Free Folk, lump all of these together and believe it to be deadly and very contagious. Even if it has been dormant for years, as is the case for Shireen. However, they immediately kill victims at the first sign of infection, so it's not like they've taken the time to do their research. Perhaps they remember a time when they were inflicted by the grey plague, but assume it's the same as greyscale. As of now, we as the readers have no evidence that a dormant greyscale (in Shireen's case) can "reawaken". It's possible that this might be the case, but we've yet to see it or even hear of it.

And then we're still left to wonder how Jon became infected while Tyrion didn't. Was it a mix of the damp climate and poor immune system that caused Jon's infection? Was psychical contact part of the cause? I think the main reason Jon caught it and Tyrion didn't is simply for development purposes by George. My own theory is that the second greyscale is contagious, but difficult to catch. It is rare, after all. But as far as characters in the story are concerned, this is a contagious disease. Even Jon believes it to be.

However, I do say all of this while maintaining the opinion that Jon's greyscale probably won't hurt anyone. I think George might be saving that storyline for the Wall. Perhaps the grey plague will break out over there, and someone will blame Shireen for a disease that she didn't actually spread.

Jon Connington was on a small boat with 6-7 people and no one else got sick, with his only possible safety measure being wearing a glove. As I am not GRRM, I cannot guarantee that it won't be a highly infectious disease that wipes out population centers. However I can point out that it doesn't appear contagious and it's only been acquired by what appears to be environmental factors.

So, again, I go back to my very salient question(s): What about hiding his terminal illness would be selfish and what about it would be sociopathic?

If I am wrong about its communicability, hindsight is obviously 20/20. There is really nothing in the books to cement why hiding his illness is either of those things, unless JonCon suddenly makes his castles damp, dark, and drafty or he suddenly becomes a living personification of the Rhoynish Sorrows.

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Posted (edited)

Some people have stronger immunity to the disease. Jon being an older male may have had less. Aegon is strong and part Targaryen. I say he resists the disease for a long time. Maybe not catch it.

Edited by Darth Sidious
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As I think I have said before - the idea with Jon getting Greyscale is NOT to launch an epidemic (that shouldn´t happen anyway due to its infection by touch and not always), but to force Jon to act faster, to take the quicker, brutal path rather than the safer, more honourable path. After all - he knows he is running out of time and has been warming up to act more like Tywin did. He will in other words choose a quick, brutal war and massacre the Tyrell army in order to end it quickly. 

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18 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

As I think I have said before - the idea with Jon getting Greyscale is NOT to launch an epidemic (that shouldn´t happen anyway due to its infection by touch and not always), but to force Jon to act faster, to take the quicker, brutal path rather than the safer, more honourable path. After all - he knows he is running out of time and has been warming up to act more like Tywin did. He will in other words choose a quick, brutal war and massacre the Tyrell army in order to end it quickly. 

It’s actually why I’m sceptical of the view that the people will love Aegon and loathe Daenerys for fighting him.  Aegon’s likely backers are filled with bloodlust.  They want to massacre anyone connected to the old regime.

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55 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It’s actually why I’m sceptical of the view that the people will love Aegon and loathe Daenerys for fighting him.  Aegon’s likely backers are filled with bloodlust.  They want to massacre anyone connected to the old regime.

Yup and this is why I am always sceptical when I hear people say "Ohh, Daenerys won't find allies. Noone would want to ally with a crazy Targ" or something similiar. Because it is so clear that they have no idea what they talk about. There will always be grievances especially in times of war and unrest. Some people want money, others justice, others status - but they all want things. Things that a ruler either can give them directly or promise them later. And such a promise is likely to be kept - why would a ruler side with those that he or she fought, rather than those that gave helpful assist?

So, if you have at least some sort of "decent" army people will flock around you - commoners first, nobles later. And the more war and unrest the faster this process goes. Indeed, its actually a bit surprising that not more people supposed Balon Greyjoy in his first rebellion. But that can be explained with 10 years of peace, bad ironborn rep and an unwillingness to actually recruit people outside the isles and odds clearly stacked against him with the STAB+L alliance in place. Give Balon a handful of real wins like say at Fair Isle and in riverlands and I am certain we would see more disgrunted and ambitious lords and plenty of smallfolk joining him, despite the above.

And now, Westeros is war-torn and in chaos. Everyone and their mother have a grievance and there will be losers a plenty. Anyone showing up with a decent amout of troops will get instant support if they manage to win a battle or two. Daenerys, a targaryen dragonrider, is most certainly not going to be the exception here. 

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On 5/26/2024 at 8:00 PM, Protagoras said:

As I think I have said before - the idea with Jon getting Greyscale is NOT to launch an epidemic (that shouldn´t happen anyway due to its infection by touch and not always), but to force Jon to act faster, to take the quicker, brutal path rather than the safer, more honourable path. After all - he knows he is running out of time and has been warming up to act more like Tywin did. He will in other words choose a quick, brutal war and massacre the Tyrell army in order to end it quickly. 

Jon Snow will do the same for Rickon.  Jon Snow will have only a short time to live.  He will be on borrowed time granted by the Others.  Snow Flake uses the time to install Rickon in Winterfell and gets the wildings behind him. 

Jon Arryn's old age limited his time and he used it hurriedly to install Robert Baratheon on a throne that never belonged to him.  A serious sin in my eyes.  Jon Connington will help Aegon get to the throne and make bad decisions along the way because of his short remaining life.  Jon Snow will get the wildlings behind Rickon and he's been known to make boneheaded decisions when he had a lot of time.  He'll be worse in this.  

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On 5/20/2024 at 10:17 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

delay my second article on Arya Stark for better timing.

so original and groundbreaking :mellow:

On 5/20/2024 at 10:17 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

The Pale Mare outbreak in Meereen is a very good training experience for Daenerys.  I think she will know how to deal with an epidemic by the time she is ready to leave for Westeros.  She will have put together a formidable council and her forces will have grown.  Her dragons will have also put on significant size and magnified their power. 

The Pale Mare is still spreading though....and Dany isn't even in Meereen right now, so I don't know how it'll help her.

I suppose "separate the healthy from the sick" isn't that bad for greyscale, but grey plague is probably a different story. 

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On 5/21/2024 at 1:17 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

A recent talk show on youtube released an episode yesterday talking about Jon Connington.  I thought I would post about that and delay my second article on Arya Stark for better timing.  

It's hard to trust Jon Connington because he has issues which compromise his thinking.  It already has.  He is a carrier of a deadly disease and still decided to return to Westeros with Griff.  Feelings compromise his behavior.  He feels guilt over Rhaegar and the fall of the Targaryens.  He feels he can make it up with the son.  He loves Griff as a father loves a son.  Those strong feelings lead him to take inappropriate risks.  

I don't think Griff will get Greyscale.  He has to live long enough to meet Daenerys and learn the truth.  But the Greyscale will spread though.  Jon will spread Greyscale in the South.  The other Jon will spread the Others in the North.  The Southerners get "stoned." The Northerners get wighted.  How is that for a bleak future!  Jon Con is the entry point of Greyscale in the South.  Jon Snow is the same for Wights in the North. 

The Pale Mare outbreak in Meereen is a very good training experience for Daenerys.  I think she will know how to deal with an epidemic by the time she is ready to leave for Westeros.  She will have put together a formidable council and her forces will have grown.  Her dragons will have also put on significant size and magnified their power. 

Two plagues. Greyscale in the South propagated by Jon C through the Golden C. Shireen will be the source of Greyscale at the Wall. It will spread in the North and the Wildlings get the blame.  Jon Snow will let the Others in. You could view them as the deadliest kind of infection. Like letting vampires into your city and setting them loose on the people.

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10 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Two plagues. Greyscale in the South propagated by Jon C through the Golden C. Shireen will be the source of Greyscale at the Wall. It will spread in the North and the Wildlings get the blame.  Jon Snow will let the Others in. You could view them as the deadliest kind of infection. Like letting vampires into your city and setting them loose on the people.

How is JonCon going to infect people in the south if he can't infect 7 people living on a pole barge with him?

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