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UK Politics: Have A Beer With Sir Keir


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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

wtf is wrong with campaigning for Corbyn?

He's a loser, and a liability. Despite the fact I have huge sympathy for his position on most things. 

Can we not just destroy them and then do the infighting after we have 450 seats? 

Edited by BigFatCoward
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I'm no fan of Corbyn, but campaigning for politicians you believe in is exactly the sort of thing that people should do to effect change. It's admirable.

Meanwhile, the Tories are banging the 'Mickey Mouse degree' drum yet again. They want to defund a bunch of HE qualifications that they say are a 'rip off' (no, of course they won't name the courses: that would ruin the argument). The quiet part is that the reason these degrees produce a lower earnings premium and have higher drop-out rates is because they are for subjects the Tories no longer fund, in careers the Tories have devalued, and at universities that work with non-traditional students. Your earnings after your degree, after all, are significantly boosted by having gone to the right uni and worked the right internships and being part of the connected classes.

The money will go into apprenticeships. Anyone want to guess what the highest earning apprenticeships are in?

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

He's just a normal bloke like. 

 

@Ser Scot A Ellison I have to ask what you meant by this:

 

 

 

wtf is wrong with campaigning for Corbyn?

Didn’t Corbyn refuse to condemn explicit anti-semitism?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54730425.amp

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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4 minutes ago, mormont said:

The quiet part is that the reason these degrees produce a lower earnings premium and have higher drop-out rates is because they are for subjects the Tories no longer fund, in careers the Tories have devalued, and at universities that work with non-traditional students.

What subjects and careers are you referring to?

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6 minutes ago, mormont said:

I'm no fan of Corbyn, but campaigning for politicians you believe in is exactly the sort of thing that people should do to effect change. It's admirable.

Meanwhile, the Tories are banging the 'Mickey Mouse degree' drum yet again. They want to defund a bunch of HE qualifications that they say are a 'rip off' (no, of course they won't name the courses: that would ruin the argument). The quiet part is that the reason these degrees produce a lower earnings premium and have higher drop-out rates is because they are for subjects the Tories no longer fund, in careers the Tories have devalued, and at universities that work with non-traditional students. Your earnings after your degree, after all, are significantly boosted by having gone to the right uni and worked the right internships and being part of the connected classes.

The money will go into apprenticeships. Anyone want to guess what the highest earning apprenticeships are in?

Ironically there’s a picture of Sunak with two black circles on a wall behind him that look like Mickey ears…

Instill can’t embed links and I think you need a twitter acct to view thr links?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

He's a loser, and a liability

 

He was a bad Labour leader and he's naive about a lot of things but he's held the seat for 41 years so I don't think we can call him a loser. But also if he's standing as an independent his liability to Labour becomes mostly irrelevant, and he's hardly going to line up with the right no matter how at odds he is with current Labour, so you're not losing a seat in that direction.

 

I do think this whole mess highlights one of the many critical flaws of the British electoral system, which is that voters are voting, simultaneously, with one vote, for a local representative, for a national representative, and for the de-facto head of state. They're three entirely separate decisions and conflating them like that is, frankly, pretty wild. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Didn’t Corbyn refuse to condemn explicit anti-semitism?

 

No. He refused to admit that he'd been complicit in it, and disagrees with how severe the problem was under his leadership. I don't think he handled the situation at all both in terms of how the situation came about and his response to it after (one of the main reasons I think he was a bad leader), but continuing to accuse him of antisemitism is doing the right wing's job for them. 

 

It's also frankly pretty wild to continue to do so when the current situation in Gaza puts his position down the years into sharp focus. 

 

Edited by polishgenius
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3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

but continuing to accuse him of antisemitism is doing the right wing's job for them. 

Saying he wouldn’t condemn anti-semitism isn’t accusing him of anti-semitism… it’s accusing him of not caring about anti-semitism… which isn’t quite the same thing as saying he’s anti-semitic.

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4 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

It's also frankly pretty wild to continue to do so when the current situation in Gaza puts his position down the years into sharp focus. 

Yes, but it's doing so in more than one way. Some of the folks Corbyn has shared a stage with over the years are people who would have supported, or at least failed to condemn, the initial Hamas attack. That has always been Corbyn's weakness on the anti-Semitism issue: his passion for the Palestinian cause impaired his judgement about those who shared it.

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27 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Didn’t Corbyn refuse to condemn explicit anti-semitism?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54730425.amp

Do me a favour. Forget what the tory press have told you about Corbyn's antisemitism. Instead maybe go and have a read about everything he's actually done to FIGHT antisemitism over the past forty years. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, mormont said:

Some of the folks Corbyn has shared a stage with over the years are people who would have supported, or at least failed to condemn, the initial Hamas attack. That has always been Corbyn's weakness on the anti-Semitism issue: his passion for the Palestinian cause impaired his judgement about those who shared it.

 

Yep, I agree. And him falling into that trap repeatedly is a massive failure on his part, probably his biggest as a politician tbh.  
But it makes him naive, and probably a bit stupid (about this), not antisemitic or even 'not caring' about antisemitism. 

 

Like, he's supported Jewish causes down the years, and he's repeatedly explicitly condemned antisemitism both in general and in specific instances. His refusal to acknowledge or apparently be prepared to realise that issue he keeps running into is a big problem, it's just... not the thing he's being repeatedly accused of. 

 

18 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Saying he wouldn’t condemn anti-semitism isn’t accusing him of anti-semitism… it’s accusing him of not caring about anti-semitism… which isn’t quite the same thing as saying he’s anti-semitic.

 

Again, he doesn't refuse to condemn antisemitism. He dpesn't agree with the claims of how much of a problem it's been for and around him. That's not the same thing. 

 

 

Edited by polishgenius
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Saying he wouldn’t condemn anti-semitism isn’t accusing him of anti-semitism… it’s accusing him of not caring about anti-semitism… which isn’t quite the same thing as saying he’s anti-semitic.

I'm afraid that is a distinction lost on many British voters. Largely due to blatant lies told about him in the press.

I've knocked on doors for Labour during the past four elections. In 2017, nobody was talking about Corbyn's antisemitism. Then Corbyn came within a few thousand votes of Downing Street, and the British Right Wing Press knew something had to be done.

Two years later, on the doorsteps, Corbyn has been transformed into the biggest antisemite since Adolph Hitler. This, despite of spending most of his life campaigning against ALL forms of discrimination, including antisemitism.

Anyway, I can no longer bring myself to vote Labour. Certainly not this incarnation. My grandad would be spinning in his grave. Luckily, due to a recent boundary change, I do not have to drop Bambos, whom I've campaigned with on the past three elections. My new prospective Labour MP is someone I've never heard of. I assume she's a friend of Sir Keir. 

So, yeah, next week, I'm joining Jeremy Corbyn's campaign. I've given him some money, and have been invited to become a "Jeremy Champion". Not entirely sure what that entails, but I've got a meeting tomorrow to discuss it.

I'm really looking forward to this. Hopefully, I'll get to meet the man himself at some point.

I also joined The Green Party today. They'll be getting my vote in the election.

Anyway, Scot. Apart from poking snide comments at my decision to go and work for Corbyn, what are you doing this year to effect political change? I mean, we've already heard, in great detail, about your absolute disdain for "pointless" non-violent protests. So I guess you'll be, what, running for mayor or some shit?

 

Edited by Spockydog
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Thames have issued a Do Not Drink order to a village in Surrey after we found trace levels of hydro carbons after a petrol station leaked fuel everywhere. So just a pre-emptive comment from me in anticipation that this being entirely the fault of the petrol station will get utterly ignored in the press tomorrow. This village has been enjoying the most rigorous testing in the country for the last six months, we’ve tested 200 houses at this point. It’s been the safest water around, I’m not exactly sure what more we can do if a petrol station says “hey sorry there’s a crack in our tank and there’s diesel everywhere now, yea sorry”. Intensive testing and swift action when levels trended the wrong way.

Could do with some other news to drown it out, anything going on with Trump right now by any chance?

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Posted (edited)

BTW - amazingly, my gammony old mum is voting for Bambos Charalambous of the Labour Party.

Earlier this year, there was a national recall of Ideal boilers, due to a fault that had been identified whereby some boilers were catching fire when trying to ignite if the pressure had dropped below 1 bar.

Anyway, the pressure in my mum's boiler was regularly  dropping below 1 bar. And as a survivor of a 1960's Glasgow house fire, you can imagine how freaky this would have been for her.

She was given a fix date of the 7th of July. And told not to use her boiler until then. The boiler company told her if she got an independent engineer in, it would invalidate her warranty. Even using an Ideal-approved engineer would do so, because they basically hadn't trained anyone yet.

So one afternoon, my mum is telling me all about this at her table. She's freaking out. Getting really upset. So I told her to get in touch with Bambos. Over the years, he's gone out of his way to help me with the DWP, as well as with my business, and I knew he'd help my mum.

So she wrote to him. He wrote back two days later, asking for more information. And then, within a week, she had an Ideal engineer in her kitchen, fixing her boiler. All thanks to Bambos. He did that for a woman who had never voted for him, a woman who had sent a tweet to Bozo, congratulating him in 2019.

I love this guy. He is a local lawyer turned councillor, with a background in homeless advocacy. He wears inexpensive suits and shoes from Clarks. And he really cares about his constituents. And he's got my my mum's vote for life now.

Edited by Spockydog
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1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Anyway, Scot. Apart from poking snide comments at my decision to go and work for Corbyn, what are you doing this year to effect political change? I mean, we've already heard, in great detail, about your absolute disdain for "pointless" non-violent protests. So I guess you'll be, what, running for mayor or some shit?

If you’d like some context.  This is what I’m seeing people say elsewhere when they talk about “Jewish Supremacy”.  I asked the guy who mentioned “Jewish Supremacy” how all Jews are responsible Israel’s actions… this was his response:

Quote

Adam Tesh 
It's not about personal responsibility over actions in Palestine

The Israeli state claims it represents all Jews and all Jews and even non Jews that claim to be descendants of Jews can benefit from that state and what it offers if they so wish.

The guys you mentioned should do something if those who claim to represent them are doing what they're doing. Because they should have responsibility over what others are doing in their own names

And we have applied that same logic to Germany for the last 80 years

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If you’d like some context.  This is what I’m seeing people say elsewhere when they talk about “Jewish Supremacy”.  I asked the guy who mentioned “Jewish Supremacy” how all Jews are responsible Israel’s actions… this was his response:

 

Not sure what any of this has to do with my text you quoted. Never heard the term Jewish Supremacy before.

 

Edited by Spockydog
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1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

Not sure what any of this has to do with my text you quoted. Never heard the term Jewish Supremacy before.

 

Neither had I.  But seeing someone accuse Jews generally of such caught my attention… in bad way.

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