Children of Hurin

[Ebenstone]

I was trolling about on Barnes and Noble.com and read about Children Of Hurin. How bad does this sound?

"Library Journal

Having rummaged through his father's multitudinous papers for 30 years, Christopher Tolkien was finally able to pull together the various pieces (some previously published) that make up this story-important background for the creation of Middle-earth."

"Rummaged through" just sounds awful, like he's doddering around his office thinking "I need to make another payment on the Bentley and the second morgage on the country house.

Maybe he should get with Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson to find the lost sequel where the Fremen are actually decendants of the Numenoreans...now that'd make money...I mean that would be classic.

[Helm With a 'Stache]

I was trolling about on Barnes and Noble.com and read about Children Of Hurin. How bad does this sound?

"Library Journal

Having rummaged through his father's multitudinous papers for 30 years, Christopher Tolkien was finally able to pull together the various pieces (some previously published) that make up this story-important background for the creation of Middle-earth."

"Rummaged through" just sounds awful, like he's doddering around his office thinking "I need to make another payment on the Bentley and the second morgage on the country house.

Maybe he should get with Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson to find the lost sequel where the Fremen are actually decendants of the Numenoreans...now that'd make money...I mean that would be classic.

I'm certainly not looking forward to it. I prefer my [J.R.R.] Tolkien done strictly by Tolkien.

There's no way it could be as bad as the Dune books of Anderson and Herbert though. The Flying Spaghetti Monster would not allow it.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Christopher Tolkien's "rummaging" has involved an extensive scholarly analysis of the evolution of his father's work: see the twelve volume History of Middle-earth series. He also put together and edited his father's manuscripts to create the 1977 Silmarillion. The Children of Hurin will simply be a result of JRRT's extensive drafts of the story of Hurin and Turin being put into a coherent format.

[The Wolf Maid]

I was trolling about on Barnes and Noble.com and read about Children Of Hurin. How bad does this sound?

"Library Journal

Having rummaged through his father's multitudinous papers for 30 years, Christopher Tolkien was finally able to pull together the various pieces (some previously published) that make up this story-important background for the creation of Middle-earth."

"Rummaged through" just sounds awful, like he's doddering around his office thinking "I need to make another payment on the Bentley and the second morgage on the country house.

Maybe the writer has just a weird sense of the understatement?

[Valkyrja]

I'm a huge J.R.R. Tolkien fan, and I am realllly looking forward to this! Maybe I am crazy, but I've always liked the idea of expanding on Tolkien's work, especially if done well. I mean, there really isn't going to be that much added to the story that wasn't already Tolkien's orginal idea. Christopher Tolkien is just doing a more thorough job on this particular story than he did the first time it was published "in full" in the Unfinished Tales. He's basically "finishing" it by filling in a few gaps (like the missing part before the Mim the Dwarf sequence) with information that is from Tolkien's writings. At least that is what I gathered from reading about this project, though I could have been misled. I mean, there is always a chance that it might turn out to be terrible, but even so......at least its got illustrations from the amazing Alan Lee! That's enough for me to want to buy it. In fact, I wish that someone would do something like this for the Tale of Beren and Luthien as well (fully illustrated in novel form, etc.).

I love this story....its one of Tolkiens most tragic. I don't see how this version could be all that bad with the source material as awesome as it is.

[The Marquis de Leech]

In fact, I wish that someone would do something like this for the Tale of Beren and Luthien as well (fully illustrated in novel form, etc.).

Bah, never mind Beren and Luthien. What we need is the revised and complete Fall of Gondolin.

[duchess of malfi]

No way this could be as poorly written as the Dune prequels/sequels. The ones of those I have read have been...mediocre fan fiction (at best). :sick: From what I have seen of the HOME books, etc. Christopher Tolkien thinks much too highly of his father's work to do a Herbert/Anderson job on it.

[Stego]

Christopher Tolkien's "rummaging" has involved an extensive scholarly analysis of the evolution of his father's work: see the twelve volume History of Middle-earth series. He also put together and edited his father's manuscripts to create the 1977 Silmarillion. The Children of Hurin will simply be a result of JRRT's extensive drafts of the story of Hurin and Turin being put into a coherent format.

Everything Christopher Tolkien has done has been absolute SHITE.

The Silmarillion is only medicore and not complete shite because of the work of Guy Gavriel Kay.

there is nothing scholarly about his 'work.'

[Paddy]

Christopher Tolkien's "rummaging" has involved an extensive scholarly analysis of the evolution of his father's work

Extensive scholarly analysis? How is that not just a fancy word for rummaging?

....unless of course, he went all CSI on his dad's notes.

[Calibandar]

The Silmarillion is only medicore and not complete shite because of the work of Guy Gavriel Kay.

Rubbish.

Ebenstone

Children of Hurin consists entirely of the writings of JRR Tolkien himself. It's not written by Cristopher Tolkien. I don't know how more clearly this can be said, and in how many languages it needs to be said.

This is not comparable to what Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson did with Dune. Those were books that they wrote themselves.

[Arataniello]

Bah, never mind Beren and Luthien. What we need is the revised and complete Fall of Gondolin.

Word.

Aratan

[Werthead]

The Silmarillion is only medicore and not complete shite because of the work of Guy Gavriel Kay.

GGK's contribution to The Silmarillion was important, but extremely small, mostly related to a few chapters near the end of the book where the only material available was extremely old, going back to the 1920s or earlier. GGK helped CT decide how to 'smooth' those parts of the story into the same format as the rest of the book. GGK had absolutely nothing to do with about 90% of the published book.

This topic is getting really annoying now and I don't know how much plainer this point can be made:

The Children of Hurin has NOT BEEN WRITTEN BY CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN!

The role of an editor is not that of a writer. Complaining about Christopher Tolkien editing this material, written by JRRT, for publication is like moaning about the people at Bantam and Voyager because they may have asked GRRM to make some changes to the ASoIaF books before publication.

[Maltaran]

Complaining about Christopher Tolkien editing this material, written by JRRT, for publication is like moaning about the people at Bantam and Voyager because they may have asked GRRM to make some changes to the ASoIaF books before publication.

I suspect Chris Tolkien has more influence on this than GRRM's editors have on his works. And people have been moaning about editors for years (although mainly in connection with Robert Jordan). The material itself will all be original Tolkien, as was the Silmarillion, but the way it's presented will be important. If the chapters don't fit together well (and there are a few points in the Sil where the plot doesn't really flow), that is IMO entirely the fault of the editor.

[Arataniello]

Somewhere the other day I saw a table of contents for the new Children of Hurin book, and it seems to indicate that there is definitely some material in it that has not been published before.

Yes, here it is

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Childre..._Hurin#Contents

Apart from the probable typo in the name of the first chapter, it seems to follow pretty closely with the section of Narn i Hin Hurin in Unfinished Tales.

The fact that there are twelve pages in the chapter "Turin in Nargothrond" suggests that CJRT has indeed put together some sort of narrative for the single largest hole in the Narn. Likewise, it looks

like the stay of Turin on Amon Rudh has been more comprehensively dealt with (several chapters).

In UT, CT said that it would have been "unprofitable to attempt" reconstructing a narrative here because it would simply re-use the materials that made up that part of the Silmarillion narrative. But that's not 12 pages' worth! At the same time, CT has stated more than once that CoH will be entirely in the author's own words. It seems to me that here may be the 'new material' he referred to: papers that apparently he wasn't aware of when he edited UT. (This last is hardly surprising, given the hopeless jumble JRRT's papers were in at his death).

[The second paragraph a shameless copy from the rec.art.cooks.tolkien newsgroup].

Aratan

[Tears of Lys]

there is always a chance that it might turn out to be terrible, but even so......at least its got illustrations from the amazing Alan Lee! That's enough for me to want to buy it. In fact, I wish that someone would do something like this for the Tale of Beren and Luthien as well (fully illustrated in novel form, etc.).

I love this story....its one of Tolkiens most tragic. I don't see how this version could be all that bad with the source material as awesome as it is.

Here's another vote for Luthien and Beren. Beautiful tale and most exciting. Alan Lee's illustrations alone would make it worth the price of admission. Can't you just imagine the scene of Luthien and Beren in Morgoth's lair, with his foul creatures capering all around?

I loved The Silmarillion. Didn't think it was "shite" at all. Flawed, yes. Shite, no. And I'll buy the "Children of Turin" when it comes out, absolutely.

[Arataniello]

They have released one of Alan Lee's illustrations from Children of Hurin. I'll spoiler it up since the link makes it obvious what the picture is about.

SPOILER: Artwork

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Image:Alan_Lee_-_Beleg_Departs_Menegroth.jpg

Aratan

[Ran]

Stego,

there is nothing scholarly about his 'work.'

Err, what?

The HoME is absolutely first-rate academic work, cataloging and presenting a very large body of drafts, barely-decipherable handwritten papers and notes, etc. for those interested in the genesis, evolution, and refinement of Tolkien's life's work. Tolkien was expressly willing to see academics look over his material, given that he donated the vast majority of it to the Bodleian Library and Marquette University. CT happens to be uniquely qualified -- as, essentially, a collaborator with him in the production of the work, as well as a trained scholar -- to produce them, and there are quite a lot of people thankful for it.

[shortstark]

Stego,

Err, what?

The HoME is absolutely first-rate academic work, cataloging and presenting a very large body of drafts, barely-decipherable handwritten papers and notes, etc. for those interested in the genesis, evolution, and refinement of Tolkien's life's work. Tolkien was expressly willing to see academics look over his material, given that he donated the vast majority of it to the Bodleian Library and Marquette University. CT happens to be uniquely qualified -- as, essentially, a collaborator with him in the production of the work, as well as a trained scholar -- to produce them, and there are quite a lot of people thankful for it.

Myself included, i love the Sil, the only problem i have with it is its brevity,anything that fleshes out the tale is a must have for me.

[unJon]

And people have been moaning about editors for years (although mainly in connection with Robert Jordan).

Yeah, but the complaint is that they don't edit enough.

[Stego]

Stego,

Err, what?

The HoME is absolutely first-rate academic work, cataloging and presenting a very large body of drafts, barely-decipherable handwritten papers and notes, etc. for those interested in the genesis, evolution, and refinement of Tolkien's life's work. Tolkien was expressly willing to see academics look over his material, given that he donated the vast majority of it to the Bodleian Library and Marquette University. CT happens to be uniquely qualified -- as, essentially, a collaborator with him in the production of the work, as well as a trained scholar -- to produce them, and there are quite a lot of people thankful for it.

Well, ok. Different definitions. Scholarly, to me, is what TerraPrime does for a living.

Scholarly, to me, is not mining my father's notes for the living he was never able to make during his lifetime.

Be thankful for it all you like. Enjoy it. I do not begrudge you that. But I will state, without reservations, that nothing that has Christopher's name attached is 1/50th of the quality of the work of the real Tolkien alone. And there's a reason for that.