AFFC Reread Project - Brienne

[Jon Targaryen]

I suspected Dunk’s shield at once when Brienne thought it was an “old shield in her father’s armory.â€

Brienne remembers Jaime and gives the first impression I can recall that she loves him now.

Brienne actually almost comes to focus on the Eyrie as a place to search for Sansa.

[Lupigis]

Like BoG (and the rest of the people posting in this thread, I suppose) I really like both Brienne and her story. The highlights during the first read of this chapter was of course when Brienne had the Lothston shield repainted with Dunk's arms (which I spotted) and the revelation that the boy following her was Pod (which came as a complete surprise).

As many have commented, Brienne made some good decisions in her hunt for Sansa, such as finding Brella and going after Dontos, but even so it's nothing that other, more experienced people haven't already done a long time ago. In this chapter we learn that Tywin had already questioned Brella when Brienne got to her and that the Gold Cloaks have been to Duskendale looking for Dontos weeks ago. Before AFFC I thought Brienne was going to find Sansa sometime during this book. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if she's doomed to wander Westeros until Sansa marries HtH and declares herself to the world. That's the only realistic scenario I can think of at the moment.

Lot's of nice little details in this chapter as well. The scenes from the marketplace where arms and armour plundered from the battlefields is sold cheaply reminds me of scenes from Iraq and Afghanistan.

A very minor detail is that Brienne sees someone with barleycorn. As far as I can remember, this is the first time GRRM mentions a specific grain. Previously, he has always used the word "corn" which is a very generic word that can mean different grains depending on where in the world you are (and what period of time it's used in). A small thing, but I thought I'd mention it.

[Happy Ent]

A very minor detail is that Brienne sees someone with barleycorn. As far as I can remember, this is the first time GRRM mentions a specific grain.

From The Sworn Sword:

"Drank some once, and it made me sick as a dog. Wine's better".

"Not for oats. Not for barleycorn. Not for carrots, onions, cabbages. Even grapes need water". Dunk shook his head.

Several of the villagers are subsequently called Barleycorn.

[Lupigis]

Wow, Happy Ent, did you remember that or do you have the e-books?

Still, The Sworn Sword is the second newest installment in GRRM's stories about Westeros, so perhaps I can still defend my proud thesis that a more detailed system of denomination of Westerosi grains is a recent development in GRRMs writing.

[Happy Ent]

Wow, Happy Ent, did you remember that or do you have the e-books?

I remember, of course. Crops are just another kind of vegetation, and I keep an eye on these things. (Terrible novella, by the way. It has a burning wood. Reading that was as bad for me as the Red Wedding seems to be for you animals.)

[Jaehaerys]

Let's not forget all those helpless great trees the red widow felled to build that dam!

[LadySoftheart]

Sadly, I have fallen behind in our reread again which means I still need to come post actual thoughts about the chapter but ...

Before AFFC I thought Brienne was going to find Sansa sometime during this book. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if she's doomed to wander Westeros until Sansa marries HtH and declares herself to the world. That's the only realistic scenario I can think of at the moment.

Lupigis, I wonder if, looking for Sansa, Brienne is going to find one of the OTHER missing Stark kids (Rickon or Arya being the possibilities!) Arya's safe in Braavos, though she might come back - but we really don't know WHERE Rickon and Osha went to and if they went south, maybe Brienne is going to find them without actually knowing who they are. (I have a feeling Osha will have to ditch the direwolf though )

Besides, she has her new vow to keep or break before she can resume her quest for Sansa, right? (Assuming, as always, that she's alive because she swore to kill Jaime.)

[Lupigis]

Lupigis, I wonder if, looking for Sansa, Brienne is going to find one of the OTHER missing Stark kids (Rickon or Arya being the possibilities!)

Now there's a thought! I hadn't considered a Brienne-Rickon hookup before. After all, the most common speculation regarding the whereabouts of Rickon is that he and Osha ends up at Moat Cailin. That's not too far away from Briennes last known position (by Westerosi standards, at least). Interesting possibility!

[Happy Ent]

BRIENNE III

Timeline. Brienne has gone from Duskendale to Maidenpool, a journey that wouldn't take more than a few days looking at the map. Quite some time has passed, since Brienne and Pod are training regularly, and the boy has raised many blisters on his hand. But I won't fix a date on this chapter yet (it's somewhere mid-February), because I don't quite understand...

I don't have my books here, so I cannot quote, but there are two interesting tidbits. (If anybody can supply the exact quotes I would be much obliged.)

First, there is a sudden jump in the narrative where Brienne thinks of Lady Lysa's death. She does so immediately after listening to smallfolk gossip. Are we to infer that Lysa's death is relatively fresh news in Maidenpool, and news to Brienne as well? That would be a valuable cross-reference with the Sansa chapters. When did Lysa's death become known in King's Landing? Is this still unknown?

Second, there is news of outlaws raping the lands around the trident. This may or may not refer to the rape of Saltpans. If I remember correctly, Saltpans is not directly named, so the stories may be of some other, earlier, raids of Rorge and his group. (Otherwise this chapter would have to be placed after the rape of Saltpans, which I have just before Feb 20, which would make the gap between Brienne II (last day of January) and Briene III a bit too large. I think it's two weeks instead of three.

[Lupigis]

BRIENNE III

First, there is a sudden jump in the narrative where Brienne thinks of Lady Lysa's death. She does so immediately after listening to smallfolk gossip. Are we to infer that Lysa's death is relatively fresh news in Maidenpool, and news to Brienne as well? That would be a valuable cross-reference with the Sansa chapters. When did Lysa's death become known in King's Landing? Is this still unknown?

I don't have the book with me either, but I'm almost positive that Tarly tells Brienne that Lysa is dead in this chapter, and that it is indeed news to her. No idea how fresh news this is in Maidenpool, though.

[the sweetling]

BRIENNE III

First, there is a sudden jump in the narrative where Brienne thinks of Lady Lysa's death. She does so immediately after listening to smallfolk gossip. Are we to infer that Lysa's death is relatively fresh news in Maidenpool, and news to Brienne as well? That would be a valuable cross-reference with the Sansa chapters. When did Lysa's death become known in King's Landing? Is this still unknown?

Second, there is news of outlaws raping the lands around the trident. This may or may not refer to the rape of Saltpans. If I remember correctly, Saltpans is not directly named, so the stories may be of some other, earlier, raids of Rorge and his group. (Otherwise this chapter would have to be placed after the rape of Saltpans, which I have just before Feb 20, which would make the gap between Brienne II (last day of January) and Briene III a bit too large. I think it's two weeks instead of three.

Here's the quote for Lysa's death, and it's clearly news to Brienne :

"“She might have gone to the Vale instead,†Brienne heard herself blurt out, “to her mother’s sister.â€

Lord Randyll gave her a contemptuous look. “Lady Lysa is dead. Some singer pushed her off a mountain. Littlefinger holds the Eyrie now . . . though not for long. [...] Lord Tarly strode away.

Lysa Tully is dead. Brienne stood beneath the gallows, the precious parchment in her hand. The crowd had dispersed, and the crows had returned to resume their feast. A singer pushed her off a mountain. Had the crows dined on Lady Catelyn’s sister too?"

Here's the quote for the rapes, which were clearly perpetrated by Rorge & Co but may not refer to Saltpans :

"Yesterday they had encountered one of Lord Randyll’s patrols, bristling with longbows and lances. The horsemen had surrounded them while their captain questioned Brienne, but in the end he’d let them continue on their way. “Be wary, woman. The next men you meet may not be as honest as my lads. The Hound has crossed the Trident with a hundred outlaws, and it’s said they’re raping every wench they come upon and cutting off their teats for trophies.â€"

[A wilding]

I think that someone has already pointed out that Brienne and Pod are a parody of Dunk and Egg, but it is such a good parallel that it bears repeating.

Reading this chapter, I was looking at Randyll Tarly in the light of Kevan's assessment of him. "A poor Hand for peacetime ... but there is no better man to finish the war". Spot on Kevan. Tarly's opinion that LF would not last in the Vale basically because he was neither a great lord nor a warrior was telling.

I was a little surprised that Dickon is to marry Lord Mooton's daughter. Presumably it is because she is due to inherit Maidenpool, and so it will pass to the Tarlys.

[Lupigis]

A chapter with lots of backstory, both for Brienne and Pod. It was interesting to learn a little more about where Pod came from. We also learn that Brienne keeps him along not just out of the goodness of her heart, but also because she thinks he may be able to reveal something about where Sansa has gone. Another reason (even though Brienne doesn't think of it in this chapter) for Brienne to let Pod come with her is the simple fact that Pod, unlike Brienne herself, knows what Sansa looks like. This will come in handy if they encounter her in her disguise as Alayne (assuming that both Pod and Brienne survives (likely), that they allowed to travel together (less likely) and that they actually manage to encounter Sansa at all (rather unlikely, but GRRM has surprised us before)).

We also meet Hyle Hunt. While he was certainly very cruel to Brienne at Bitterbridge, I took a liking to him anyway, because of his great lines that sums up his opinion of the recent civil wars with such perfect laconic eloquence:

"Shouldn't we seize her, ser?" the serjeant asked. "For killing Renly?"

"Why? Renly was a rebel. So were we all, rebels to a man, but now we're Tommens loyal lads."

[....]

" What, for Renly? Who was he? We've changed kings since then, some of us twice. No one cares, no one remembers."

Another great line is only pronounced in Briennes head, when she thinks of her suitors from Bitterbridge:

"What was it Catelyn Stark had called them, that night at Bitterbridge? The knights of summer. And now it was autumn and they were falling like leaves... "

[nitpick]Did Cat really say that in a way that made it possible for Brienne to hear? I doubt it, but I wont check, because I like Briennes line so much[/nitpick]

As wilding said earlier, Tarly is proving that he is indeed a good ruler for wartime. He is restoring order and rebuilding the city, and the people are no doubt happy for that. He also tells Brienne that he won't give her justice if she gets raped (no doubt he thinks it's what she deserves, cruel bastard that he is) and tells her about Lysa's death. This causes Brienne to abandon any plans of going to that Vale. Plotwise, this is necessary, but that decision isn't very logical. Assuming that Sansa has fled to the Vale with Dontos, she should have taken ship well before she had any chance to learn about Lysa's death. In that case, she would now be stranded in the Vale with Dontos, but with no one to turn to for protection, needing Brienne more than ever. However, Brienne doesn't draw this conclusion, but starts following Shadrich instead.

I really liked this chapter. Great lines and lots to chew on. Together with the following Samwell chapter it makes the best pair in this reread so far, IMO.

[rpthomps]

I liked Hyle too but I found his clothing interesting. For a captain of the guard it sure was dirty and bloody. I think there has been enough of a lull in the war for him to get it cleaned.

Also, Tarly's men at the gates seem pretty unruly despite Tarly's iron fisted control. Perhaps his methods are a little TOO heavy handed.

[Happy Ent]

Random points:

House Inchfield has no luck with the ladies. Ser Owen lands, arse-first, in a cook-fire after trying to steal a kiss off the Maid of Tarth. Some generations before that, Ser Lucas "Longinch" fares even worse in his patient courtship of Lady Webber. Rohanne and Brienne are both freckled, though of varying height. And the rival of Ser Lucas, who manages to steal not only a kiss, but a braid, off the Lady of Coldmoat, is none other than the ancestor of the object of Ser Owen's affections.

Trees aren't mentioned much in this chapter either. A Dearth of Trees might have been a better name for this entire volume. Yes, we learn that Brienne puts a copper star on the plank in the Stinking Goose. But what kind of plank? Beech? Oak? The mighty Skirling Pine? Why aren't we told the backstory of the proud log that once floated down the trident, brutally cut down, its bark removed, to end in a seedy tavern of Maidenpool, to be slapped by fists, empty beer glasses, and the cheeks of tavern wenches? A tale as harrowing as that of the broken men, cut by the editors for reasons unfathomable.

Randyll Tarly makes his first appearance. Next to him, Lords Tywin and Stannis are limp-wristed cry-babies. However, I like the fact that GRRM (who personally, I guess, has as little sympathy for the mindset of people like Tarly as I do) takes the time to point out that the smallfolk are actually doing pretty well—compassion and decency may be nice, but justice is good, however harsh. From the perspective of the powerless, Lord Tarly is a much better ruler than Lord Mooton. But GRRM cannot resist pointing out that Lord Tarly's lips move when he reads Brienne's parchment. Brienne notices, so she is probably a good reader as well.

The casual rape at the city gate is as shocking as anything else. Ser Hyle manages to prevent it, but we can be sure that women are routinely raped all over the country. Even a tight outfit like Lord Randyll's seems to think nothing of it. It's illegal, of course, but that doesn't seem to bother the soldiers.

I like Ser Hyle as well. And I think he likes Brienne.

[Lupigis]

House Inchfield has no luck with the ladies. Ser Owen lands, arse-first, in a cook-fire after trying to steal a kiss off the Maid of Tarth. Some generations before that, Ser Lucas "Longinch" fares even worth in his patient courtship of Lady Webber. Rohanne and Brienne are both freckled, though of varying height. And the rival of Ser Lucas, who manages to steal not only a kiss, but a braid, off the Lady of Coldmoat, is none other than the ancestor of the object of Ser Owen's affections.

Great catch! I completely missed that one.

But GRRM cannot resist pointing out that Lord Tarly's lips move when he reads Brienne's parchment. Brienne notices, so she is probably a good reader as well.

An interesting fact is that this would not have been considered very unusual in "real-world" medieval days. Before the 12th century, reading aloud was the norm. I found a blog entry about the subject here:

http://askpang.typepad.com/relevant_histor...spacing_si.html

[the sweetling]

Did Cat really say that in a way that made it possible for Brienne to hear? I doubt it, but I wont check, because I like Briennes line so much

She definitely said that (in ACOK, Catelyn 2), and Brienne's answer is interesting considering what she went through since then :

"“Why?†Lord Rowan asked her. “Look at them. They’re young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?â€

“Because it will not last,†Catelyn answered, sadly. “Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.â€

“Lady Catelyn, you are wrong.†Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. “Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it’s always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining.â€"

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Not much to add here. Pod's constant "Ser, I mean, my lady" does get annoying rather quickly. It would be all right once or twice, but are we supposed to believe that he couldn't get it right through all the time he spent with Brienne?

Pod's backstory is really interesting. He was really unlucky boy, and at the end he will likely get hanged for his trouble

I agree that Tarly comes out as a good ruler in the time of war, even if he is utterly unlikable.

[Lupigis]

Oh, the irony! I had forgotten that Brienne was seated together with Cat on that occasion, and totally forgotten the answer. That makes Briennes line in AFFC even better, though.

[Ashara Stark]

When did Lysa's death become known in King's Landing? Is this still unknown?

Cersei knows Lysa is dead and Littlefinger is facing trouble from the Lords of the Vale in Cersei II.

That is why I think Lysa died the same day Tywin died, or even a few days earlier than Tywin.