The Name of the Wind Thread

[Joanna vander Poele]

I always thought Denna was tied to

SPOILER: TNOTW

Chandrian itself somehow. Or at least people with some sinister agenda involving them. She just never felt "right"

Yesss let that be true. Make Kvothe cry!

[cloudbusting]

Yesss let that be true. Make Kvothe cry!

On reread this weak I notice in the story Skarpi is telling when he is interrupted by the Tehlins, one of the original Amyr is named Deah. Close enough to Denna's other names to make me wonder right there.

[MethodMan]

I agree with you all about Denna. Kvothe is a huge bitch for stickin with one girl though throughout this entire story so far lol

[cloudbusting]

Also, I know much has been made of Kvothe's money situation and how often it comes up in the course of the book. I can only say this. When you have no money at all, its pretty much all you think about is where can you get some and where the next meal/roof whatever is going to come from. Its to the point of an obsession. I've got a decent amount of money now, but if you've ever been really poor you never lose that feeling of staring at the debit card machine wondering if its going to decline, even though you know it wont. So in that sense I would say his apparent obsession with his financial situation is pretty accurate, even if you don't want to read about it, it does go a ways toward fleshing out the character.

[Maia]

Also, I know much has been made of Kvothe's money situation and how often it comes up in the course of the book. I can only say this. When you have no money at all, its pretty much all you think about is where can you get some and where the next meal/roof whatever is going to come from. Its to the point of an obsession.

But that's not the point. _If_ Kvothe's money troubles have been presented in a believable manner, it would have been one thing. But they are unbelievable and manipulative.

I.e. in societies similar to the one depicted in NotW, children worked from the early age. Somebody as skilled, educated and charismatic as Kvothe certainly should have been able to find a place - not that he would have been payed according to his talents, of course, children were severely underpayed. That could have resulted in a believable and sympathetic story of Kvothe saving for the University, agonizing over every coin spent and then succombing to temptation and blowing the better part of his savings on a lute. In it's own turn, it would have made Kvothe's feeric entrance into the University and victory in the music competition very impressive, but not implausible and Gary Stuish.

But no, this wasn't enough for the author, who wanted to lay it really thick to make us SORRY for Kvothe, so he had to become crazy and live on the streets. I mean, honestly, I am surprised that Rotfuss didn't have him repeatedly raped, too, just to pull all the pity registers at once. It just feels so incredibly manipulative, plot jerking the protagonist around without any consistency.

Rotfuss wants to write about the misery of living on the streets at length (rather than a few days/weeks that should have been sufficient for Kvothe to find a place) - the protagonist goes crazy and can't use his ubiquiteously genius-level talents to help himself.

Then, when the next stage of the plot arrives, Kvothe is suddenly at peak efficiency, so that he can make a triumphal entrance into the University/ win musical competition and his skills/knowledge aren't rusty at all. Honestly, that feels so clumsy and Deus ex machina, that instead of cheering for the protagonist, I only feel irritation.

Oh, and once Kvothe is at the University, he has no clue how to earn some money to keep going. He talks about washing up! Are you kidding me?! This "genius" doesn't see the opportunity that countless indigent students used to pay their way in RL? Namely, tutoring. I'd point out that the structure of University admissionas and fees strongly encourages weaker students/ applicants to seek tutoring. Kvothe should have been fendng the hopefuls off with a stick! And again, there could have been a gripping, empathy-inducing story there, Kvothe trying to balance tutoring and study to keep ahead of his expenses. But no, all we had was some gormless moaning and then heavy Deus ex Machina to resolve his problems (to some degree).

Basically, if you want your hero to be a multi-faceted genius with early superb education and acting chops, you shouldn't try to make him a poor street child as well, unless you put some serious effort into it. I.e. maybe a war and there are tons of refugees or maybe he belongs to a seriously oppressed ethnicity or something else, like making him a shy, awkward introvert. And if you want to believably depict somebody, who is bright, but poor, for Pete's sake, have them behave that way!

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Uh...

SPOILER: Kvothe

It's implied pretty heavily that he was raped at least once while living on the streets.

[kuenjato]

But that's not the point. _If_ Kvothe's money troubles have been presented in a believable manner, it would have been one thing. But they are unbelievable and manipulative.

I.e. in societies similar to the one depicted in NotW, children worked from the early age. Somebody as skilled, educated and charismatic as Kvothe certainly should have been able to find a place - not that he would have been payed according to his talents, of course, children were severely underpayed. That could have resulted in a believable and sympathetic story of Kvothe saving for the University, agonizing over every coin spent and then succombing to temptation and blowing the better part of his savings on a lute. In it's own turn, it would have made Kvothe's feeric entrance into the University and victory in the music competition very impressive, but not implausible and Gary Stuish.

But no, this wasn't enough for the author, who wanted to lay it really thick to make us SORRY for Kvothe, so he had to become crazy and live on the streets. I mean, honestly, I am surprised that Rotfuss didn't have him repeatedly raped, too, just to pull all the pity registers at once. It just feels so incredibly manipulative, plot jerking the protagonist around without any consistency.

Rotfuss wants to write about the misery of living on the streets at length (rather than a few days/weeks that should have been sufficient for Kvothe to find a place) - the protagonist goes crazy and can't use his ubiquiteously genius-level talents to help himself.

Then, when the next stage of the plot arrives, Kvothe is suddenly at peak efficiency, so that he can make a triumphal entrance into the University/ win musical competition and his skills/knowledge aren't rusty at all. Honestly, that feels so clumsy and Deus ex machina, that instead of cheering for the protagonist, I only feel irritation.

Oh, and once Kvothe is at the University, he has no clue how to earn some money to keep going. He talks about washing up! Are you kidding me?! This "genius" doesn't see the opportunity that countless indigent students used to pay their way in RL? Namely, tutoring. I'd point out that the structure of University admissionas and fees strongly encourages weaker students/ applicants to seek tutoring. Kvothe should have been fendng the hopefuls off with a stick! And again, there could have been a gripping, empathy-inducing story there, Kvothe trying to balance tutoring and study to keep ahead of his expenses. But no, all we had was some gormless moaning and then heavy Deus ex Machina to resolve his problems (to some degree).

Basically, if you want your hero to be a multi-faceted genius with early superb education and acting chops, you shouldn't try to make him a poor street child as well, unless you put some serious effort into it. I.e. maybe a war and there are tons of refugees or maybe he belongs to a seriously oppressed ethnicity or something else, like making him a shy, awkward introvert. And if you want to believably depict somebody, who is bright, but poor, for Pete's sake, have them behave that way!

A lot of the ideas presented here would have made TNotW a much better novel.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

Finished the book recently. Just like to say the Happy Ent you are my hero. I agree with everything you wrote here http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...p;#entry1024902

Sadly though I think I'll continue with the series. His series focuses on two of my weaknesses: elite magical boarding schools and pining for capricious unavailable women.

He also has a genuine gift. Rothfuss keeps me turning the pages in spite of the atrociousness of his writing, characters and setting.

[alguien]

Finished the book recently. Just like to say the Happy Ent you are my hero. I agree with everything you wrote here http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...p;#entry1024902

Sadly though I think I'll continue with the series. His series focuses on two of my weaknesses: elite magical boarding schools and pining for capricious unavailable women.

He also has a genuine gift. Rothfuss keeps me turning the pages in spite of the atrociousness of his writing, characters and setting.

I just finished this as well and feel torn. I agree with a lot of the criticisms I read here about the books.

Some elements are frankly absurd and come off as fan-fic wankery... especially the parts with Della.

But every once in a while, there was a good sentence or a good description, and it pulled me in. If I were at a bar listening to this guy, I would think Kvothe is an arrogant ass who was full of shit. Even when his eyes turned a darker green because he was angry, even if his hair was flaming, fiery, phoenix-y, crimsony red. He is THE Mary Sue of Mary Sues.

And yet. Yet at some level, I enjoyed the story. I liked the legends. I liked when Kvothe played music, even if what he did isn't really how one plays. Despite my harsh criticisms, I think it was a decent first effort.

I guess I was a little surprised to read all the praise it got from big-time authors like LeGuin. Marketing. It doth work wonders.

[irriadin]

He is THE Mary Sue of Mary Sues.

Come now, Kvothe is nothing on Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody.

[snake]

I finished it a while ago. I found it pretty good and found Rothfuss a decent writer. Obviously not in Martin's class but as good as most and better than some supposedly terrific writers. Certainly worth 10 bucks.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

Rothfuss has promise and may produce good books one day but the Name of the Wind isn't very good. He's the Dan Brown of fantasy for me. Very readable with few good qualities. A pretty impressive accomplishment actually.

I was quite disappointed in the blurb from leguin. I know blurbs are a pretty corrupt practice but she's 1000 times the writer he is and her blurb in no way was justified. Btw who are the writers that are supposedly terrific but worse than rothfuss?

[Jerec]

I'm not really understanding the criticism of this book. For such a lengthy volume, I managed to read it quite quickly. The only time I found the pacing of the book lag was when he was homeless and penniless. But before and after that, I enjoyed it all the way through. The writing was good enough to keep me reading, make me interested enough in the characters and the world. Could've done with a real ending, though. I thought Book 2 was supposed to be out by now, but I can't find a single bit of info on it, apart from a sample chapter on Pat's blog.

[snake]

Btw who are the writers that are supposedly terrific but worse than rothfuss?

Tad William's and Steven Erikson are two that come to mind and I would say Frank Herbert as well although I've only read one book of his but I'm not reading anymore and I will be buying the next Rothfuss novel so it's enough to compare. I've also read a book by John Marco I think and that was poor fair as well.

Fact of the matter is I find it hard to find, IMO, quality fantasy writers so one that's not bad is rather refreshing and I found Rothfuss to be not bad. But I'm still looking.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

Haven't read any Tad Williams or Erikson so I can't really judge I guess. Read Dune a long time ago and thought some of the ideas were interesting but found it too flawed and convoluted for me to continue the series.

I just found Rothfuss really disappointing considering the hype. I think he will do good stuff one day though. My best recommendation from this board has definitely been R Scott Bakker though.

Planning on starting Abraham's Long Price and Sanderson's Mistborn soon.

[TheEvilKing]

I'm guessing his next book was going to be more of the same, but he's seen all the criticisms and gone back to work on it. More fleshed out characters and more plot, less detailed money troubles, make Denna interesting or get rid of her, get Kvothe the hell out of the University, better world building... there's quite possibly a shitload of work to be done, so I'm not surprised at all it's taken so long.

I just hope I'm right and it's not more of the same, because there's definitely big potential here.

[red snow]

I picked this book up mainly because of all the positive recommendations present around this site. I only have the time to read during my daily commute but I am enjoying it a lot so far. The mechanics of the magic described so far (200 pages in) appeal to me a lot as there seems to be sensible rules governing them. I think this is the first Fantasy book I have read with a first person POV, which is making it quite refreshing. I also like how, becauue of Kvothe's amazing memory, he can recall things in a greater degree of detail than a real person would probably be able to (similar to how Kovacs can describe things in detail because of his conditioning in 'altered Carbon').

I'm itching to read the rest of the thread but after 2 pages I feared it may get spoilery. I have a current theory as to what's going on and if it's true it has ruined a good chunk of the book by guessing it. Is this a series with a big twist? If there isn't a big twist, then I have clearly read/watched too many books/films!

Anyway, I look forward to dropping back in on this thread when I finish the book! Shouldn't take too long as I have a conference to attend to in a month if I fall behind.

[Galactus]

We don't really know if there's a big twist, since it isn't finished yet...

[add-on]

i.e. no, there was absolutely no payoff in this book, but his many fans hope that, one day, there might be

[UndergroundMan]

i.e. no, there was absolutely no payoff in this book, but his many fans hope that, one day, there might be

It was very entertaining book. Fairly well written, and I loved the characters. However, I would agree there was no big payoff in this book and I was a little disappointed after having heard extremely positive reviews. It just did not live up to the hype for me.