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The Name of the Wind Thread


wuzzup3003

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I finally found a copy and I finished it just this afternoon.

Most of my thoughts have already been expressed upthread:

- Denna = irritating; though I also harbor the suspicion that

SPOILER: On Denna
she's related to either the Sithe or the Amyr. Also, on page 581 of the trade paperback, when Kvothe wakes her up after seeing that the draccus was going to Trebon, she mutters the word Moteth. Her earlier drugged-related ramblings were still formed words (or words that made sense as words) so I'm wondering if this Moteth was a person, maybe her patron? I'm not sure if the word has been mentioned before in the story, can't really recall. But then it could also be some simple word like Mother, uttered in muffled way since she just woke up.

- Draccus scenes = dragged on too long.

The most interesting characters for me were

SPOILER: Characters
Ben, Auri, Lanre/Lord Hali, Bast to some extent, and Kvothe's University friend, Wil.

I'm still hoping Ben would make a later appearance. I think Wil is interesting because he takes a very different perspective of things. But what I'm really wishing for is for Auri to become _the_ female lead in this series - not as Kvothe's love interest, but more of as a stronger female character. She's so much like Elodin in some ways, and every time she comes in the scene, I want to ask her what she's brought for Kvothe that day. Is there a meaning to the things she's been giving Kvothe?

Although it felt like a meshed world of Potter (though Kvothe had more smarts than Harry, certainly), Earthsea (the Naming), my elementary school science class (Laws of Energy, Magnets!) and even Dune

SPOILER: Dunish reference
page 174:
I want to hear about the dry lands over theStormwal.... about the dry men who hide under the dunes and drink your blood instead of water
, I enjoyed it nonetheless.
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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, I'm late to the party, but I imagine some of the U.K. folks will be weighing in on this book soon--wasn't it just released over there?

I picked up this book because I saw it mentioned on Pat's Hotlist and after reading through the reviews on Amazon figured I'd give it a try. I couldn't put it down, then started from the beginning and read it through a second time. I can't remember the last time I've done that with a book.

One of the things that appealed to me was the quality of the writing. There's a maturity and confidence in his prose that I didn't expect from a debut novel. Rothfuss writes sentences that just flow so nicely and at times his imagery just sparkles off the page.

SPOILER: TNOTW
I enjoyed the way that sympathy/magic is entwined with science so that it feels achievable to the common student and not just for the few privileged to be born with the right combination of genes and talent. I liked the way the draccus is depicted, because it maintains just the right balance of the fantastic, yet it seems plausible that they could occur even in our own world. I laughed at the places where I was supposed to--Kvothe jumping off the roof--anyone? and cried when he earned his pipes. What can I say, I'm an emotional person!

I've also found myself itching to discuss this book, the characters, the plot twists, the questions about what will happen, with anyone who will listen. Believe me, I did not get into the HP books anywhere near this much, and started to wonder if my enthusiasm for fantasy was over and done with.

Denna didn't bother me like many people in this thread. I saw her as a survivor, doing what she had to do, you know? I wonder if her allure will be Kvothe's undoing. Maybe she catches the eye of that King he is supposed to be slaying somewhere down the road?

Does anyone else worry about Master Lorren? He'd heard of Kvothe's father--and is keeping Kvothe from learning about the Chandrian by barring him from the archives. What could he be hiding?

I like Le Guin a LOT and the bits about naming/magic are very similar to her Earthsea stories. I thought the part about his accidentally naming the horse after the white foot was deftly done. The guess about the innkeeper girls' name was a bit more forced, but I can see where we are to understand that his talent for naming is something he already has, just hasn't realized, nor understood how to use yet.

Well, I've rambled enough for a second post. I'm excited about this new author!

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It's meant to be released over here in the UK, but they keep changing the release date! I ordered my US copy ages ago though, and loved it :)

I also liked the Sympathy aspect, and Rothfuss' writing style.

I'll be doing a Q&A with Rothfuss sometime soon, actually -- just waiting to have the answers in! He's a very funny guy.

~Chris.

Well, I'm late to the party, but I imagine some of the U.K. folks will be weighing in on this book soon--wasn't it just released over there?

I picked up this book because I saw it mentioned on Pat's Hotlist and after reading through the reviews on Amazon figured I'd give it a try. I couldn't put it down, then started from the beginning and read it through a second time. I can't remember the last time I've done that with a book.

One of the things that appealed to me was the quality of the writing. There's a maturity and confidence in his prose that I didn't expect from a debut novel. Rothfuss writes sentences that just flow so nicely and at times his imagery just sparkles off the page.

SPOILER: TNOTW
I enjoyed the way that sympathy/magic is entwined with science so that it feels achievable to the common student and not just for the few privileged to be born with the right combination of genes and talent. I liked the way the draccus is depicted, because it maintains just the right balance of the fantastic, yet it seems plausible that they could occur even in our own world. I laughed at the places where I was supposed to--Kvothe jumping off the roof--anyone? and cried when he earned his pipes. What can I say, I'm an emotional person!

I've also found myself itching to discuss this book, the characters, the plot twists, the questions about what will happen, with anyone who will listen. Believe me, I did not get into the HP books anywhere near this much, and started to wonder if my enthusiasm for fantasy was over and done with.

Denna didn't bother me like many people in this thread. I saw her as a survivor, doing what she had to do, you know? I wonder if her allure will be Kvothe's undoing. Maybe she catches the eye of that King he is supposed to be slaying somewhere down the road?

Does anyone else worry about Master Lorren? He'd heard of Kvothe's father--and is keeping Kvothe from learning about the Chandrian by barring him from the archives. What could he be hiding?

I like Le Guin a LOT and the bits about naming/magic are very similar to her Earthsea stories. I thought the part about his accidentally naming the horse after the white foot was deftly done. The guess about the innkeeper girls' name was a bit more forced, but I can see where we are to understand that his talent for naming is something he already has, just hasn't realized, nor understood how to use yet.

Well, I've rambled enough for a second post. I'm excited about this new author!

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Finally done with it. Gods, I found it terrible. Probably the worst book I've read this year.

The story picks up on the last hundred pages, where the Chandrian make a brief appearance to frustrate the reader. Then there is a tacked-on interlude with a dragon. But not an evil dragon, Kvothe and the author tell us. Not one who eats people. Oh no. A dragon who eats trees! As if that made it any better.

After more university-shenanigans that make Harry Potter look good there is a longer jump back to now. I enjoyed that timeline a lot more than Kvothe's youth, if only because some things actually happen, and Bast and Chronicler are memorable characters. (I couldn't for the life of me tell you anything about the other people in the story. Kvothe's friends, his teachers, people he meets—either they are villains drawn with the same deftness as Draco Malfoy, or they are forgettable. Auri and Denna are exceptions.) But in the end, there is too little information and too many mysteries for me to really care what's going on. Demons? Spiders? Do these things connect to the Chandrian?

I hope there is a reason behind all this build-up. I hope Denna has a damn good reason to be at the wedding where the Chandrian attack. I hope all the excruciatingly boring bits from the middle of the book are actually used for something. But honestly, I stopped caring many hundred pages ago. I will maybe read a plot summary in a few years on Wikipedia to see where all the lose ends connect.

So much for the plot and story.

Characterisation was really, really bad. I don't get Kvothe at all. I couldn't tell you how he would react in a given situation. The only characters I could give you a description of are Denna and Ambrose. And one adjective would suffice for both of them.

But my absolutely biggest problem is with the world-building. I feel completely alienated. Where is this? When is this? Medicine seems to be on the level of the late 19th century, and people's mindsets are... I can't describe it. It's one huge anachronism, and I don't buy it. Neither do I like reading about it at all.

(This is not to say that all Fantasy needs to be gritty feudalism that reads like historical fiction. But I can't relate to Rothfuss' world nor its inhabitants.)

And finally there are a gazillion details that simply annoy me. The speech patterns. Grossly anachronistic words like "painkillers" or "he overdosed". The description of music and making music. I don't know if Rothfuss is a musician or a singer. But it sure doesn't feel that way.

Example: at one instance, Kvothe takes out his lute to let the string get some sun. I can't remember the quote, but Kvothe says something like "If you are a musician, you will understand." Well, a musician would never take out his instrument only to expose an strings to direct sunlight.

(Edit: I also hate the condescending tone. "If you were a musician, you'd understand." Or "Such is human nature" from an author that leaves me unconvinced that he understands human nature at all. But such remarks come from Kvothe, so maybe it's part of his character, not Rothfuss'.)

And songs seem to come with a composed score in Rothfussworld, rather than being a melody with harmonies. And random guests at an inn are supposed to expect the correct notes. Again, this is an anachronism: music became like that (namely, a composition) in the upper classes of European bourgeoisie in the late 19th century. But even in the late 19th century, music in a bar would be lyrics and melody and harmony. Not a composition.

The magic system is fine. And so is the prose, with the (important) exception of grating anachronisms. And the scene where Kvothe talks peasant is almost unbearable. And the man is called "Schimmelpfennig". Argh! So there are different languages that aren't translated (except for the Common Tongue that Kvothe speaks, which is translated to English), but peasants have German last names?

But these are details. May main problems are the nonexistent plot and the anachronistic world.

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Finally done with it. Gods, I found it terrible. Probably the worst book I've read this year.

The story picks up on the last hundred pages, where the Chandrian make a brief appearance to frustrate the reader. Then there is a tacked-on interlude with a dragon. But not an evil dragon, Kvothe and the author tell us. Not one who eats people. Oh no. A dragon who eats trees! As if that made it any better.

After more university-shenanigans that make Harry Potter look good there is a longer jump back to now. I enjoyed that timeline a lot more than Kvothe's youth, if only because some things actually happen, and Bast and Chronicler are memorable characters. (I couldn't for the life of me tell you anything about the other people in the story. Kvothe's friends, his teachers, people he meets—either they are villains drawn with the same deftness as Draco Malfoy, or they are forgettable. Auri and Denna are exceptions.) But in the end, there is too little information and too many mysteries for me to really care what's going on. Demons? Spiders? Do these things connect to the Chandrian?

I hope there is a reason behind all this build-up. I hope Denna has a damn good reason to be at the wedding where the Chandrian attack. I hope all the excruciatingly boring bits from the middle of the book are actually used for something. But honestly, I stopped caring many hundred pages ago. I will maybe read a plot summary in a few years on Wikipedia to see where all the lose ends connect.

So much for the plot and story.

Characterisation was really, really bad. I don't get Kvothe at all. I couldn't tell you how he would react in a given situation. The only characters I could give you a description of are Denna and Ambrose. And one adjective would suffice for both of them.

But my absolutely biggest problem is with the world-building. I feel completely alienated. Where is this? When is this? Medicine seems to be on the level of the late 19th century, and people's mindsets are... I can't describe it. It's one huge anachronism, and I don't buy it. Neither do I like reading about it at all.

(This is not to say that all Fantasy needs to be gritty feudalism that reads like historical fiction. But I can't relate to Rothfuss' world nor its inhabitants.)

And finally there are a gazillion details that simply annoy me. The speech patterns. Grossly anachronistic words like "painkillers" or "he overdosed". The description of music and making music. I don't know if Rothfuss is a musician or a singer. But it sure doesn't feel that way.

Example: at one instance, Kvothe takes out his lute to let the string get some sun. I can't remember the quote, but Kvothe says something like "If you are a musician, you will understand." Well, a musician would never take out his instrument only to expose an strings to direct sunlight.

(Edit: I also hate the condescending tone. "If you were a musician, you'd understand." Or "Such is human nature" from an author that leaves me unconvinced that he understands human nature at all. But such remarks come from Kvothe, so maybe it's part of his character, not Rothfuss'.)

And songs seem to come with a composed score in Rothfussworld, rather than being a melody with harmonies. And random guests at an inn are supposed to expect the correct notes. Again, this is an anachronism: music became like that (namely, a composition) in the upper classes of European bourgeoisie in the late 19th century. But even in the late 19th century, music in a bar would be lyrics and melody and harmony. Not a composition.

The magic system is fine. And so is the prose, with the (important) exception of grating anachronisms. And the scene where Kvothe talks peasant is almost unbearable. And the man is called "Schimmelpfennig". Argh! So there are different languages that aren't translated (except for the Common Tongue that Kvothe speaks, which is translated to English), but peasants have German last names?

But these are details. May main problems are the nonexistent plot and the anachronistic world.

Happyent, I wish you'd just stop beating around the bush and tell us whether you liked it or not! :eek:

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I've spent some time reading the reviews of some of you fellow board members, and am none the wiser...

Let me take Wert's:

Rothfuss has done his homework and the University sections of the novel work very well, with mathmatics, metal-working, chemistry and music all forming part of the story in a very intricate manner.

This is probably the place where I most forcefully disagree. What kind of homework was that? Certainly Rothfuss has absolutely made no attempt at describing University life in "The Olde Days", whatever Olde should mean. And maths? I know maths, but there was no maths in the book apart from name-dropping of anachronistic courses. "Grubmfloo was off to his Advanced Algebra class, but first he had do check his mail and down some painkillers."

For me there is no verisimilitude about University life in Kvothland. It seems Rothfuss just sat down and wrote what he imagines a University could be like. That's fine (except it doesn't work for me), but not even close to homework. It's the opposite.

I already commented on Rothfuss' extremely weird representation of music upthread. I know little of metal-working and chemistry, so these things may be correct. But they probably remain anachronisms.

And this is the place where Wert tries to tell me what's good about the book, after several paragraphs that translate to "Yes, it's damn boring told at its own pace. Yes, there are huge anachronisms slips into post-modern reflections about the nature of storytelling. Yes, the books is terribly structured may frustrate some readers by not being a stand-alone novel, and it has a middle part that is ridiculous unless it's meant as a Young Adult Fiction boarding school drama threatens to turn Harry Potter-shaped."

What's left is consistent praise for the prose. Wert also thinks there are "some vivid characters", but otherwise reviewers and commenters on this thread seem to agree that Rothfuss' characterisation is weak.

Like Pat's review, Wert's review is a long list of problems summed up by "But I really liked it a lot." I don't get it.

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What's left is consistent praise for the prose.

I think that's about the only thing the book has going for it. At least, it was for me. There were hints and brief flashes of the lyricism that I enjoy...and then there was the rest of the book. I wanted to like that book, but it just...failed.

I'm curious, though. Where on the scale of rock-solid to utterly deluded to liar does Kvothe the Unreliable Narrator fall?

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There has been a lot of hype for this book, and I've considered picking it up at hardback price. But everytime I open The Name of the Wind in the bookstore and flip through the pages, I feel uncompelled to give it more of my attention.

First there is the map. Large, europe-resembling land structure, with a half-dozen demarcations. I expect fantasy worlds to be more populated, and though it may be a fault of mine to judge a book by its map, I do wish current authors would put more effort into that which depicts the terrain.

Secondly, I come across "musings". One on which Rothfuss talks about the importance of sleep. Another about understanding horses, how they are supposed to be treated and such.

I don't get much impression in the way of plot. Or much of anything resembling action/tension. Reviews continually expound what a marvel Rothfuss' debute is, but I haven't so far heard nor seen anything to put it up with Lynch or Bakker; the majority of the reviews are frustratingly vague as to what is exactly so wonderful, other than prose. I remain, for the time being, unconvinced.

Perhaps all the random elements Happy Ent talks about above coalesce and/or erupt epic-ly in the coming volumes? Perhaps DAW is trying to mimic the success of Harry Potter?

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I think that's about the only thing the book has going for it. At least, it was for me. There were hints and brief flashes of the lyricism that I enjoy...and then there was the rest of the book. I wanted to like that book, but it just...failed.

I'm curious, though. Where on the scale of rock-solid to utterly deluded to liar does Kvothe the Unreliable Narrator fall?

I liked the prose. A lot. It carried me through the first few hundred pages. The boarding school drama was weak, Denna was inexplicable, but I'm interested enough to carry on with the series. I understand where HE's problems with anachronism are coming from, but honestly, it didn't bother me. I didn't expect the novel to follow the historical/cultural trajectory of earth. It wasn't a particularly real or gritty or well-defined world, but it worked well enough for the story he was trying to tell.

As for unreliable narrator, I found Kvothe to be almost hilariously arrogant and Gary-Stu, so I hope he turns out to be very unreliable. Might need more than a trilogy to bring that to light though. Personally, I don't see the point of first person writing if your narrator is reliable.

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I didn't expect the novel to follow the historical/cultural trajectory of earth.

I agree in principle. As I said above, there is no requirement that every fantasy novel must needs be set in faux medieval Europe. Other world-building could work fine. I must just admit that I can't imagine the place. Or the time.

But let's be careful. In one of the very last scenes, Kvothe actually stumbles upon industrial-era technology. Under the University. Huge metal wheels and such. This could all be very well thought out: The most off-putting thing (to me) is that Rothfussworld's inhabitants' mindset and the science and the culture is all post-Industrialism Earth, but the level of technology (transportation, agriculture) is medieval. Yet now we have found signs of long-forgotten (?) industrialism. There could be a really well-thought out explanation behind it all—maybe the worldbuildling is actually actually very careful instead of very sloppy.

Problem is, I don't care anymore. I'm bored to death.

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Or just a mindless puppet to Bast's hidden agenda. Heh.

Oh! Wouldn't that be great. That's why he can't do sympathy, either! Wonderful idea for a book, probably only Elizabeth Kostova could ruin it.

(Unfortunately I fear we are deluding ourselves. Kvothe clearly can kill a shitload of spider-demons. He can't be a used-cart salesman.)

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I'd rather more posters tried to verbalise why they liked the book, like Revie's useful message a few posts upthread.

This is from the review I wrote back in February.

I realize that the above description doesn’t capture the implied excellence of my opening, however, the story is wonderfully told. The prose is not the love of language you get from some writers, but neither is it hindrance to the story – in fact, I have to say it’s utterly forgettable in an almost perfectly simple way. The writing invites complete immersion in the world Rothfuss has created – the story flows, and I can’t easily recall a book that was harder to put down.

As excellent of a job that Rothfuss does with the telling of the story, he may actually exceed it with his characterization. Good characterization is essential to good writing, and great characterization makes for phenomenal reading. I’ve only rarely encountered writing where characterization is almost totally achieved by showing it. Rothfuss does not ‘tell’ us about his characters, he shows them to us – we learn all we need and more about them from their actions, manner, and even dress. It’s because it’s so rare that it stands out so brightly in the book. (full review)

In retrospect, I've written better reviews, but what remains is that I did enjoy this book a lot and I found it to be a very solid debut novel. I found the story to be very engaging and entertaining and I really enjoyed the characterization. This is just a case where your tastes are different than those of others, though you are certainly not alone in your dislike of the book.

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I agree in principle. As I said above, there is no requirement that every fantasy novel must needs be set in faux medieval Europe. Other world-building could work fine. I must just admit that I can't imagine the place. Or the time.

But let's be careful. In one of the very last scenes, Kvothe actually stumbles upon industrial-era technology. Under the University. Huge metal wheels and such. This could all be very well thought out: The most off-putting thing (to me) is that Rothfussworld's inhabitants' mindset and the science and the culture is all post-Industrialism Earth, but the level of technology (transportation, agriculture) is medieval. Yet now we have found signs of long-forgotten (?) industrialism. There could be a really well-thought out explanation behind it all—maybe the worldbuildling is actually actually very careful instead of very sloppy.

Problem is, I don't care anymore. I'm bored to death.

Hmm... i was getting bits of steampunk vibe from some of the university sections. But I doubt the worldbuilding will be that complex. At most, we might get a throwaway explanation "we used to have huge machines that worked without sympathy, but that was then".

I also fear that the Gary-Stu explanation might be more likely than the used cart salesman. Sigh.

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Again, this is an anachronism: music became like that (namely, a composition) in the upper classes of European bourgeoisie in the late 19th century. But even in the late 19th century, music in a bar would be lyrics and melody and harmony. Not a composition.

What do you mean here? Not excusing Rothfuss here, I do see anachronisms in the music, and I would agree about the bar, just tangentially wondering how you're defining a composition.

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What do you mean here? Not excusing Rothfuss here, I do see anachronisms in the music, and I would agree about the bar, just tangentially wondering how you're defining a composition.

For example, different songs have different, and apparently well-known levels of "difficulty" attached to them.

Let me quote some stuff...

"Have any idea what you' use to woo us?"

"That depends sir. Has anyone played 'he Lay of Sier Savien Traliard' lately?"

Stanchion raised an eyebrow and cleared his throat. [...] "Well, no. Someone gave it a whilr a few months ago, but he bit off more than he could swallow whole. Missed a couple fingerings then fell apart." [...] "Most people find that a song of amore moderate difficulty allows them to showcase their talent," he said carefully."

I sensed the unspoken advice [...] "Sir Savien" is the most difficult song I had ever heard. My father had been the only one in the troupe with the skill to perform it [...] It was about 15 minutes long, but those fifteen minutes required quick, precise fingering that, if done properly, would set two voices singing out of the lute at once, both a melody and a harmony.

That was tricky, but nothing any skilled lutist couldn't accomplish. [...] the vocal part was a counter melody that ran against the timing of the lute. Difficult. [...] further complicated by the female's counter harmony in the refrains [...]

I can't get that description of a piece of music to rhyme with the tradition of the ballad, or the song. Ballads don't have 15 minute timings, or predefined "fingerings" or even a well-known counterpoint in the lute. What Kvothe describes is something like a Schubert Lied (early 19th century), which has a fully written out score telling the pianist exactly which notes to play when. A composition, which requires a printed score.

You can perform Schubert's Erlkönig wrong when the pianist messes up his part, which an informed concert audience would notice. (Or the singer could forget the lyrics or sing out of tune.) But that was never an aspect of popular music in our world.

So we are to believe that the inn-frequenting audience in Rothfuss-world is extermely well-educated about how certain songs are to be performed. Do they all read music? (No. There seems to be no tradition in Kvotheland for communicating music in writing. You learn songs off other musicians.) But there are no radios, or recording devices. So how does the innkeeper know how Ser Savien is supposed to sound? I don't get it.

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Okay. I agree with your assesment of Rothfuss.

However, I disagree with compositions not existing before the late 19th century. Scores existed in the Middle Ages, though they were too expensive to be common; polyphony was in use by the 12th century, more elaborate in the Renaissance; and Baroque and Classical writers like Bach, Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven (I know he bridged into the Romantic) all composed pieces between 1600 and 1800. You have orchestration and music requiring printed scores in the 17th century, at least.

However, counter harmony and polyrhythms would seem out of place in Rothfuss's world. Those aren't common before the the twentieth century - polyrhythms were not in the European tradition, at least, though they were in the African - and his world doesn't seem like it's post-Renaissance, so even Baroque-style pieces still would be anachronistic.

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It's meant to be released over here in the UK, but they keep changing the release date! I ordered my US copy ages ago though, and loved it :)

I also liked the Sympathy aspect, and Rothfuss' writing style.

I'll be doing a Q&A with Rothfuss sometime soon, actually -- just waiting to have the answers in! He's a very funny guy.

~Chris.

Yes, I've been doing some fangirling over at his blog and he seems like a genuinely nice, down-to-earth guy. I look forward to your Q & A.

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