Best Fighters of Westeros

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

Bronn liked Tyrion well enough to name Lolly's son after him, as a sort of dark joke, but not enough to do something foolhardy like fight Gregor.

What keeps Bronn loyal for most of the series is that Tyrion will match any offer that comes along. In the end though he couldn't match a comfortable lordship.

[Lightsnake]

Yes, and I don't think Bronn liked Tyrion enough to slash his wrists for him, but he did say he liked Tyrion well enough.

Pay a man, he'll fight for you. However, keeping him loyal in the face of adversity is another thing entirely. Tyrion might just as well been attempting that. It failed if he did, but still

[Ser Romin]

Valyrian: At one point, Tyrion appeals to Bronn's ego. Why would he not do the same to get Bronn on his side when he really needs him?

Bronn amitted he liked Tyrion, and some flattery'd keep him loyal if some better offers arrived, in theory.

Oh please Lightsnake, don't bring your bias against Bronn in this thread. You already demonstrated quite well that you are not willing to be reasonable when discussing Bronn's skill.

Quote from Tyrion's POV from AGOT

...Chiggen's sword raked across the naked face of a mailed rider, and Bronn plunged through the clansmen like a whirlwind, cutting down foes left and right.

Another:

...He saw Bronn unhorsed, fighting with a sword in each hand.

Not enough? Well here's one from Lady Catelyn:

She liked that less well. Without Bronn she would have never reached the Vale, she knew; the sellsword was as fierce a fighter as she had ever seen, and his sword has help cut them through to safety. .... Courage he had, and strength, but there was no kindness in him, and little loyalty.

Two different POV's. Both highborn. Both have been witness to numerous men's fighting ability. I didn't bother requoting the one where Tyrion compares Bronn to Jaime because you claim its ego stroking. But how can you refute that he was butchering his way through numerous foes? They counted atleast 25 riders approaching them. Also, he fought with a blade in each hand. This is a series that prides itself on its realism in terms of combat. Do you have any inkling of how difficult it is to wield two blades effectively? Add in Catelyn's quote and we have the ultimate ownage to those who say that Bronn is overrated.

I won't even bother busting out the ASOS quotes from Tyrion but I will sum them up for you; Bronn is bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Oberyn...yet you think Oberyn is a top tier and Bronn is not? Get real.

[malek]

I just hope that no one will get this the wrong way, but Tyrion gave Bronn greatest compliment he ever could.

He said that he was almost as good as Jaime, although I can't remember his exact words, and remember that Tyrion never bet against his brother.

Jaime at his best was better than Bronn, although he lacked swordsman's cunning, and devotion.

I'm not sure I would put money on Bronn beating everyone, but I'm quite sure that he will out-survive them.

I didn't bother requoting the one where Tyrion compares Bronn to Jaime because you claim its ego stroking.

I didn't see that, but anyway...

[Lightsnake]

Oh please Lightsnake, don't bring your bias against Bronn in this thread. You already demonstrated quite well that you are not willing to be reasonable when discussing Bronn's skill.

Keep your fanboyism out of it. I didn't even bring the damn conversation up

Quote from Tyrion's POV from AGOT

Another:

Not enough? Well here's one from Lady Catelyn:

Two different POV's. Both highborn. Both have been witness to numerous men's fighting ability. I didn't bother requoting the one where Tyrion compares Bronn to Jaime because you claim its ego stroking. But how can you refute that he was butchering his way through numerous foes? They counted atleast 25 riders approaching them. Also, he fought with a blade in each hand. This is a series that prides itself on its realism in terms of combat. Do you have any inkling of how difficult it is to wield two blades effectively? Add in Catelyn's quote and we have the ultimate ownage to those who say that Bronn is overrated.

I won't even bother busting out the ASOS quotes from Tyrion but I will sum them up for you; Bronn is bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Oberyn...yet you think Oberyn is a top tier and Bronn is not? Get real.

OH WOW! Oh, my god! How cool! A highborn lady with no battle experience whatsoever observes something! That MUST be proof!

Please. Oh, and last I checked, strength and size don't matter to skill. Which Oberyn has over Bronn by a large margin.

Really, please....would any Dothraki own Bronn by virtue of being bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Bronn? Like Qotho?

[redcandle17]

I won't even bother busting out the ASOS quotes from Tyrion but I will sum them up for you; Bronn is bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Oberyn...yet you think Oberyn is a top tier and Bronn is not? Get real.

So being bigger and stronger counts when you're defending Bronn's supposed prowess but it doesn't count when you're discounting Gregor's?

[The Prince]

why does everyone think sandor is so great? If it weren't for Arya, he would've gotten killed by the tickler, and the other 2 lannister soldiers. If it had been Jaime or Barristan, all three would've been dead in all of 2 seconds. Yea he was drunk, but still... And if everyone has Sandor, why don't they have Dondarrion? After all, Dondarrion almost killed him...

[Mykael Clegane]

Bronn over Oberyn? In what universe? Bronn is overrated.

Bronn said he could "possibly" beat Gregor. Oberyn did what Bronn was scared to do. And he succeeded. He beat Gregor. He had him pinned to the ground. The only thing that kept him from killing Gregor then and there was his desire to hear that confession. If he hadn't been trying to get that confession, he'd be alive and Gregor would be dead. He demonstrated his skills over & over in that fight.

If we're thinking of best fighters as in "Who's best at killing people?" both Gregor and Oberyn should be right at the top of the list. Oberyn poisons his weapons. He doesn't give a shit about the rules- he will ultimately kill anyone he encounters in battle.

IMO, this knocks him down a notch because a cardinal rule of warfare is not to let your emotions interfere. It cost him his life.

[Lightsnake]

why does everyone think sandor is so great? If it weren't for Arya, he would've gotten killed by the tickler, and the other 2 lannister soldiers. If it had been Jaime or Barristan, all three would've been dead in all of 2 seconds. Yea he was drunk, but still... And if everyone has Sandor, why don't they have Dondarrion? After all, Dondarrion almost killed him...

Um, what? One was a young squire...Sandor had already killed Polliver and was facing the Tickler mano a mano. The tickler was backing away, terrified.

And good, bloody hell...Dondarrion didn 'almost'; kill him...Dondarrion died. Period. When Sandor was on fire.

Neither of those fights were Sandor top notch, either. Sandor was exhausted, dead drunk or with a hangover in both of those fights. And, not to mention, but with Beric, he was literally fighting someone wielding his worst fear.

Why do people take two fights of Sandor at his absolute worst-and fights he won anyway- as proof of his inferiority?

If it were Jaime or Barristan in the same situations, they'd have just as many problems.

[Shadow Cat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but

Sandor- Blackwater

Sandor has mentioned twice that he killed his first man at age 12. It hasn't been spelled out for us yet, but coincidently he was 12 the same year as the Sack of King Landing so I think we're going to learn he did fight in Robert's Rebellion. He was old enough to be a squire. It is likely he also was in Greyjoy's Rebellion too as by than he'd have been 17.

We know in AGOT he was involved in the fighting when the Lannister's took over Kings Landing. Although not wars, in AGOT he was key in taking out Ned's men when he was taken into custody. Then there was the riot in ACOK, and outside the Red Wedding in ASOS and Polliver and the Tickler in ASOS, ... All real world, not 'sheltered' tourney play or duels. The guy has done a lot of fighting/killing.

Gregor-Robert's Rebellion (greyjoy rebellion?) raiding the riverlands

Definitely Greyjoy's rebellion as during the Hand's Tourney Ned remembers Gregor as "one knight among thousands" that rode with them during Greyjoy's rebellion.

He's also leading Tywin's van when Tyrion meets up with them at the end of AGOT.

even if there's more, Bronn being a lifelong sellsword has likely fought in more battles. Remember, the above fighters are all lordlings who have a lot of downtime. Their life is not continually in danger like a sellsword. Again I'm not saying Bronn has superior individual skill than the above. It's possible that any one of them could kill Bronn in a duel. I'm just saying that given Bronn's superior experience, I'd bet on him surviving a battle above all others.

What specific battles has Bronn fought in? I suspect some, but we really don't know if it's more than these others although he is older than all the 5 you listed. Being a sellsword doesn't mean constantly at war. He could have spent much of that time as basically a bodyguard as he is for Tyrion or a guard/bouncer for some business and he would have had down time between jobs or if with a sellsword company between campaigns.

[Ser Romin]

So being bigger and stronger counts when you're defending Bronn's supposed prowess but it doesn't count when you're discounting Gregor's?

Bronn is strong, fast and skilled, he's bigger than Oberyn from Tyrion's POV but I always envisioned Oberyn as being slightly shorter than 6 feet, so Bronn is probably just over 6 feet. I used those adjectives to describe why he is better than Oberyn (combined with those quotes). It had nothing to do with a general rule for determining a fighters ability.

Gregor is nearly 8 feet tall, over 300 lbs of muscle and is slow. He hasn't demonstrated to be exceptionally skilled, atleast not nearly as skilled as Bronn as demonstrated himself to be.

OH WOW! Oh, my god! How cool! A highborn lady with no battle experience whatsoever observes something! That MUST be proof!

Please. Oh, and last I checked, strength and size don't matter to skill. Which Oberyn has over Bronn by a large margin.

Really, please....would any Dothraki own Bronn by virtue of being bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Bronn? Like Qotho?

Admit it. Your senseless Bronn hatred just got owned to shreds. Those quotes highlight Bronn's skill and to dismiss them simply shows how blinded by bias you are. Catelyn's a highborn lady; she's been to tournies and seen men fight, joust and whatever. Tyrion as well. Not to mention that Catelyn seems to be a damn good judge of the men that Robb has under his command and is able to provide him with counsel.

Oberyn is not more skilled than Bronn. He's damn good mind you, but not as good as Bronn. Tyrion even says when Oberyn is fighting Gregor that he is wishing he'd had Bronn, or even better, Jaime fighting for him. He knows how good both Bronn and Jaime is and he has faith in their abilities.

Really, please....would any Dothraki own Bronn by virtue of being bigger, stronger and just as fast, if not faster than Bronn? Like Qotho?

Terrible argument. Has Qotho demonstrated the same level of skill that Bronn has? Has he fought with two swords? Has he cut through mutliple foes like butter? Has he been described as being as fierce a fighter someone of note has seen? Has Qotho been described as moving like a "Panther who stalks his prey"? Has he defeated the Captain of a Dead Hand's guard in single combat? No? Then re-evaluate your position.

[Lightsnake]

Bronn is strong, fast and skilled, he's bigger than Oberyn from Tyrion's POV but I always envisioned Oberyn as being slightly shorter than 6 feet, so Bronn is probably just over 6 feet. I used those adjectives to describe why he is better than Oberyn (combined with those quotes). It had nothing to do with a general rule for determining a fighters ability.

So in other words, you have unrelated nothings that really don't mean anything.

We have examples of Oberyn's skill against one of the top warriors in Westeros. Thank you.

Gregor is nearly 8 feet tall, over 300 lbs of muscle and is slow. He hasn't demonstrated to be exceptionally skilled, atleast not nearly as skilled as Bronn as demonstrated himself to be.

Admit it. Your senseless Bronn hatred just got owned to shreds. Those quotes highlight Bronn's skill and to dismiss them simply shows how blinded by bias you are. Catelyn's a highborn lady; she's been to tournies and seen men fight, joust and whatever. Tyrion as well. Not to mention that Catelyn seems to be a damn good judge of the men that Robb has under his command and is able to provide him with counsel.

Martin quote again, darling. Sorry...

Catelyn lives in the north, remember? How many real fights would she have seen? Bloody, up close and personal slaughters, not 'charge on horseback repeatedly.'

Bronn's good. So what? So was Polliver.

Oh, and Catelyn knows the measure of men...when did she ever tell Robb "Ok, Roose Bolton isn't as good a fighter as Tytos Blackwood."

Oberyn is not more skilled than Bronn. He's damn good mind you, but not as good as Bronn. Tyrion even says when Oberyn is fighting Gregor that he is wishing he'd had Bronn, or even better, Jaime fighting for him. He knows how good both Bronn and Jaime is and he has faith in their abilities.

Terrible argument. Has Qotho demonstrated the same level of skill that Bronn has? Has he fought with two swords? Has he cut through mutliple foes like butter? Has he been described as being as fierce a fighter someone of note has seen? Has Qotho been described as moving like a "Panther who stalks his prey"? Has he defeated the Captain of a Dead Hand's guard in single combat? No? Then re-evaluate your position.

Yes. Because Tyrion knows Bronn and Jaime and he does not know Oberyn. He says this...what, before he ever sees Oberyn fight? True or false: Tyrion had never seen Oberyn fight before that.

And yes, Qotho demonstrated....well, yes, more skill than Bronn. He's a Bloodrider of a warrior people and noted for his cruelty. He participated in the destruction of the Lazhareen, he cut down one of Dany's guards instantly and would've killed Jorah if his Arakh didn't get stuck. Qotho was moving blade faster than Dany could even see, btw.

But wait! Now we see if you prove yourself hypocrite...Dany saw the Dothraki fight more than once, remember?

Oh, and since when is using two swords helpful in a real duel? Oh, right, it doesn't tilt the scales one way or the other.

Oh, and Vardis Egan was an old man with an unfamiliar sword. Lots of people could defeat him. Learn a bit about fighting, darling.

[snake]

Bronn defeated an old man in single combat. If it were Ser Lyn Corbray who was championing Lysa then Bronn would not have stood for the Imp. It was only once he saw who was Lysa's champion that he spoke up. Bronn has skill and he's smart but he's a sellsword and he wasn't about to risk his skin unless he was certain he could win.

As for fighting Gregor. Bronn knew what his chances were and they were not good. He had the right idea but any fighting man would have realized that. What Oberyn did was use a spear to counter Gregor's reach so that he wouldn't have to get too close. Bronn would most likely have used a sword and that means his chances would have been much lower than Oberyns because he would have had to get in range of Gregor's sword. One little misstep and he's dead.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

I'm not going to get into Bronn any more. I kinda regret posting and bringing up an issue just when it almost had settled. Sorry

Just wondering if someone could tell me more about Richard Lonmouth? What was his reputation? Personality? Is he still alive? What would his age be if he were still alive?

Also I found an interesting thing from SSM. I didn't realize how big some of westeros's most famed warriors are.

I expected Brienne to be 6"2 or 6"3 but she's actually 6"6. She's described as being as tall as Robert Baratheon! Taller than both Renly and Jaime BUT shorter than Hound. I didn't realize the Hound was so big!

[delete this account pls]

Once again;

Vardis Egen is a respected warrior. The information that Bronn killed him in single combat is enough to cow Mandon Moore, who Jaime rates as the second best member of the Kingsguard after himself. Tywin Lannister knighted him for his deeds on the Blackwater. He personally duelled all 600 members of Tyrion's personal guard, encouraging each opponent to try and kill him. He easily killed Balman Byrch, who was a respected knight when he was younger.

He's not the best warrior, because such a title doesn't exist. No one person is number one, any warrior can be defeated on the day. It's made abundantly clear that Bronn is extremely good though.

[cybroleach]

I'm not going to get into Bronn any more. I kinda regret posting and bringing up an issue just when it almost had settled. Sorry

Just wondering if someone could tell me more about Richard Lonmouth? What was his reputation? Personality? Is he still alive? What would his age be if he were still alive?

IRRC he was a friend of both Robert and Rhaegar, and bosted of planing to defeate the Knight of the Laughing in Aerys honour. He was knighted by Rhaegar and fought with him in the war where he died.

[cybroleach]

The point I was trying to make was that Bronn being lowborn sellsword scum has had to constantly rely on his cunning and martial prowess. Even he doesn't fight, he doesn't have employment. The other fighters are all nobles and go through long stretches without doing any fighting. Loras and Garlan in particular are practically green boys. Gregor is the only one who even remotely comes close to Bronn's experience.

To make that assumption when most of the recognized top fighters have such gloried histories of fighting and major wars. While in a AGOT Bronn is sitting around in an inn with some shoddy archer looking for work? He apparently didn't even have alot of money at this point where a man wiht such experence as you claim would be pretty well off by this point in his carrier if he were soo good doing it soo often.

I just don't quite get why Bronn is disparaged so much. Even if you don't respect him, shouldn't you respect Tyrion's intelligence? Tyrion delegated a lot of duties to Bronn and trusted him as much as you can trust any amoral sellsword willing to betray you for a higher price.

Bronn has something alot of these fighter's lack intelligence that's why Tyrion has such respect for him and deligates such important tasks to him. Jamie, Loras, Gregor, Oberyn, Greatjon, and Sandor none are in his class of intelligence. But skill at arms isn't the same thing.

[DJDonegal]

My original vote was with Barristan Selmy.

There it remains.

[malek]

Oh, and Vardis Egan was an old man with an unfamiliar sword. Lots of people could defeat him. Learn a bit about fighting

What a nonsense! Ser Vardis Egen was Captain of Hand's Guards, and one of top swordsman in Westeroes, he wasn't old, he was around 40.

I'm really pissed with all this "unfamiliar sword" bubbling. It wasn't his sword, so what ?! Other fighters used different swords all the time, after all it was far better weapon, than one that he owned.

Oh, and since when is using two swords helpful in a real duel?

What that has to do with anything ?! Are we talking about duels here, or something else ?

Wielding two swords at the same times serve to show how skillful, and adaptable Bronn is. Eh, what would Jaime give if he could wield a sword equally good with either hand...

As for fighting Gregor. Bronn knew what his chances were and they were not good. He had the right idea but any fighting man would have realized that

And he did. If Tyrion has something to offer, something worth risk I'm quite sure that Bronn would champion him, just like he did at Vale.

Bronn would most likely have used a sword and that means his chances would have been much lower than Oberyns

Really ?! If he used sword, his chances would be much slimmer ? You are making a huge guess there, so everyone facing bigger opponent should use spear to counter their reach.

Are you sure that Oberyn didn't use it because he was better with spear, than with sword ? I would put my money it was down to the fact that it was easier to use poison on it, and not much more.

One little misstep and he's dead.

Just what happened to Oberyn

Bottom line is that we were given clues, not facts, and Martin made it clear that Bronn is bloody brilliant swordsman, just like some other characters in the series. That is the fact, everything else is for us to debate until certain characters get to "dance" against each other.

[TheValyrianDragonlord]

To make that assumption when most of the recognized top fighters have such gloried histories of fighting and major wars. While in a AGOT Bronn is sitting around in an inn with some shoddy archer looking for work? He apparently didn't even have alot of money at this point where a man wiht such experence as you claim would be pretty well off by this point in his carrier if he were soo good doing it soo often.

Bronn has something alot of these fighter's lack intelligence that's why Tyrion has such respect for him and deligates such important tasks to him. Jamie, Loras, Gregor, Oberyn, Greatjon, and Sandor none are in his class of intelligence. But skill at arms isn't the same thing.

Ack, already broke my own promise not to post on Bronn again. Damn you insomnia!

Yeah I overstated my claims. Bronn of course has more experience than Garlan, Loras, and Sandor but it was a mistake to include Jaime and Gregor. It was merely in reaction to those who disparaged Bronn. I just feel that he is held to a much higher standard than the other recognized warriors. Can't we all recognized that he is a dangerous fighter that no one, not even two-handed Jaime would treat lightly. In terms of narrative structure, Bronn is fairly obviously used by GRRM as an example of a low born unheralded sellsword having as much skill at arms as many nobly born knights with funny nicknames *grins

I'm sure however GRRM will stage wonderful fights between some of our favorite warriors. BTW has GRRM had any warriors with reputations slug it out besides Gregor vs Oberyn in the books?

Even if at the end of the series Bronn kills someone like Lyn Corbray, it doesn't prove that Bronn is the superior fighter. It just proves that he is among the elite. And if Bronn is killed, I'm almost certain that he will go out earning his opponent's and the readers' respect. GRRM did not write pages and pages of Bronn being a badass only for him to get handled like a green boy against a famous knight.