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Tysha

*SPOILERS* GRRM's Remark on ADwD

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The other theory is that Young Griff is someone who was raised to believe they are Rhaegar's son Aegon, but is in fact not. ;)

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The other theory is that Young Griff is someone who was raised to believe they are Rhaegar's son Aegon, but is in fact not. ;)

Possible, since Daenerys saw a mummer's dragon in the House of the Undying. :)

Aoife, that was the first thing that made sense to be. Now if GRRM said wedding, I'd be thinking of something else.

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Possible, since Daenerys saw a mummer's dragon in the House of the Undying. :)

Duh... I can't believe I forgot this. Thanks for bringing this back up, Maid. :thumbsup:

So, a pretender/impostor Targaryen who may have been mentored by Lord Connington? Kind of cool to consider.

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Duh... I can't believe I forgot this. Thanks for bringing this back up, Maid. :thumbsup:

So, a pretender/impostor Targaryen who may have been mentored by Lord Connington? Kind of cool to consider.

This part troubles me also. Jon Connington would be a perfect choice for surviving Aegon mentor. Close friend of his father, good knight of his own right, good general and a man involved into politics. But for impostor? What could persuade Connington to do such a thing?

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I really hope Aegon Targaryen isn't alive. It just seems cheesy, somehow. Almost as bad as Jon being half-Targaryen.

Afraid GRRM mentioned long time ago that the third head of the dragon should not necessary to be a Targaryen. The reporter claimed it to be GRRM exact words so this means that the other two heads are Targs. This consequently means that at least on of the theories about hidden Targs should be true.

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Rhaegar abandoned him to Aerys's capriciousness while he was dallying around in the south. He lost everything because of the Targaryens.

And of course, nothing says that Griff/Connington would actually know that Young Griff is not really Aegon, assuming that Young Griff has a Valyrian-type look to him.

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Many speculate that 'Griff' is Lord Jon Connington (Dancing Griffins), who took charge of the Golden Company after his banishment and who, as a prominent Targaryen loyalist, will play a role in the effort to restore the Dragonkings through Daenerys. And this 'Young Griff' is either Lord Connington's son (I think this is likely) or as some have theorized, Aegon son of Rhaegar, which I think is much less likely. It seems a stretch for Dany to marry either Lord C or his son (why would she?), and if Aegon is still alive and masquerading as the Young Griff, it would be a big surprise, I think; not impossible, but a stretch.

I’m sorry but you are incorrect in your post. While it really seems that Grif is indeed Jon Connington (particularly after comparison with another spoiler when griffin and lion mentioned together), he was not in charge of the Golden Company. Just the opposite Grif looks to be greatly concerned about it. Connington instead was supposed to be long dead supposedly drunk to death within short time after his exile. This fits for a lord that lost everything but if he is still alive then there should be some explanation why he avoided any notice all these years.

“Young Grif†could be his son but in this case we have to explain great interest that Illirio showed for him. And also Young Grif was recently knighted that means that he should be over 16 years old probably a couple of years older. But there was no mention of Jon Connington married and has a son or wife that followed him into exile. And if he had somebody surely would wonder what happened to them. If he conceived son after he was exiled even immediately this boy should be no older then 16 probably younger. Could be but this is a bit stretch here.

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Rhaegar abandoned him to Aerys's capriciousness while he was dallying around in the south. He lost everything because of the Targaryens.

And of course, nothing says that Griff/Connington would actually know that Young Griff is not really Aegon, assuming that Young Griff has a Valyrian-type look to him.

Connington grievance would be to Aerys not to Rhaegar that was his friend and had nothing to do with it. He knew very well that Rhaegar was very different from his father so he has no reason to revenge to the whole family for mad king actions.

As for him being deceived. On the one side it was mentioned that Valyrian looks are much more common in Free cities so given time it would be possible to find a child who looked much like Aegon. Yet this would be difficult because Connington for sure saw a real one so the resemblance should be really good. And again Grif seems to have a very interesting team with him including a blood mage. So if somebody deceived him they would face a great risk of revelation.

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Mezeh,

Connington grievance would be to Aerys not to Rhaegar that was his friend and had nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with Rhaegar? Rhaegar provided the causus belli, and then was off to the south rather than being at King's Landing to help run the war and shield his friends from Aerys's madness. It would be very easy for someone who has lost everything fighting a war on behalf of a friend who abandoned him to the madness of his father to end up becoming very bitter about what happened and blaming the friend to some degree for his misfortune.

And again Grif seems to have a very interesting team with him including a blood mage

I recall no references to sorcerers in Griff's company. Where does that come from?

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Mezeh,

Nothing to do with Rhaegar? Rhaegar provided the causus belli, and then was off to the south rather than being at King's Landing to help run the war and shield his friends from Aerys's madness. It would be very easy for someone who has lost everything fighting a war on behalf of a friend who abandoned him to the madness of his father to end up becoming very bitter about what happened and blaming the friend to some degree for his misfortune.

Aerys first made Connington the Hand as for the rest Connington was not just Rhaegar’s friend but dear friend so he should have known his reasons. Besides if he would like to take revenge on Targs then he could just join the rebels like his cousin in hope to return some of what was taken from him. While they surely had a lot of grievance for him since he slew Dennis Arren but the same was true for Selmy as well and the last was pardoned and given honors. Connington did nothing but fought valiantly and honestly so he could hope for the same. Yet he preferred to “die†in exile. Actually this indicates that he remained loyal even after his disgrace.

I recall no references to sorcerers in Griff's company. Where does that come from?

In the second Tyrion’s chapter Illirio insist that there are things that Grif have to know about GC and Haldon (the half maester) replies that Grif already known because Bernaro seen it in flames. So this Bernaro should be a blood mage.

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Mezeh,

Selmy was a Kingsguard, and Robert respected that. Connington was Robert's vassal, a very different situation. Oh, and he was Rhaegar's friend, and we know what Robert felt about Rhaegar -- how kindly would he look on Rhaegar's bosom buddies?

Robert didn't recall Connington from the east -- he handed Griffin's Roost to his cousin (minus the title of lord and much of the lands and treasury). Suffice it to say, Jon Connington does not seem to have had the opportunity to be welcomed back with open arms, or he wasn't interested in getting a small slice of the pie by kowtowing to Robert (and that was what was going to happen -- the Merryweathers got their title and lands back, but Robert pretty much emptied their treasury punitively before doing so; a proud man might not care for that).

That he might bear grievances against the Targaryens doesn't mean he wouldn't also bear grievances against Robert. I don't quite see how you suppose he has to be for one side or another.

Grif already known because Bernaro seen it in flames.

I don't believe this indicates he's a blood mage. He's probably a red priest, or a former red priest. Thoros doesn't work blood magic, for example, and he seems to be a "mainstream" R'hllorian priest. I suspect Melisandre is an anomaly, probably because of her origination in Asshai, and her shadow magic is something well beyond usual R'hllorian norms. For one thing, unlike Thoros, I don't believe she's in Westeros because the R'hllorian upper hierarchy sent her there.

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Connington only preferred loyalty to the throne over loyalty to his lord. A hard choice for many including Robert’s own brother Stannis. And Connington wasn’t alone with it.

Now during the war many lord changed sides for much smaller reasons. Consider a situation. Conington comes to Robert and say. Look I served Targaryens bravery and loyally and see how they rewarded my service. Now I hate them and want to revenge. Do you think Robert would refuse him? I think not. After all lord Jon’s cousin reasons to join Roberts were not much different.

As for Bernaro - red priest or blood mage all the same. What is important is that his ability to see in flames could eventually reveal thuth and makes deception dangerous.

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Connington only preferred loyalty to the throne over loyalty to his lord. A hard choice for many including Robert’s own brother Stannis. And Connington wasn’t alone with it.

Now during the war many lord changed sides for much smaller reasons. Consider a situation. Conington comes to Robert and say. Look I served Targaryens bravery and loyally and see how they rewarded my service. Now I hate them and want to revenge. Do you think Robert would refuse him? I think not. After all lord Jon’s cousin reasons to join Roberts were not much different.

It may not have been as simple as Robert offering a pardon in exchange for an oath. Remember that Jon Connington gave Robert a great deal of difficulty at the Battle of the Bells. It seems that Connington is a dangerous man, and even though he was defeated, knowing Robert's character he might not be so quick to forgive someone who had been such a fierce enemy. Jon Connington was also an intimate of Rhaegar, whom Robert had just killed at the Ruby Ford. Yeah he had differences with the Mad King, but who didn't? If I was in Connington's unenviable position I doubt I'd have bent the knee to Robert either.

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Forgive me but you are talking about the situation after the Trident. Lord Jon cousin apparently went to Robert before it because after it the straggle was as well as done and he could expect pardon but no reward even that small.

It was mentioned that Connington gave rebels a great deal of difficulty even before the battle he was defeated so he is doubtlessly a dangerous man. But this would increase his value to the rebels if he would want to join them. Even his knowledge of Rhaegar could be very useful for them. In such a case Robert need to be a complete fool to turn down such an offer and Robert definitely wasn’t that fool and that was known.

So if after his disgrace Connington would decide to join rebels he most probably would be welcomed by them. Not warmly taking into account all grief he caused but any welcome would be much better then death in poverty and exile.

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This part troubles me also. Jon Connington would be a perfect choice for surviving Aegon mentor. Close friend of his father, good knight of his own right, good general and a man involved into politics. But for impostor? What could persuade Connington to do such a thing?

Pure speculation - but he might help an imposter if he thought it was divirting attention from the real Aegon.

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Mezeh,

So if after his disgrace Connington would decide to join rebels he most probably would be welcomed by them.

And then if the Targaryens won? He was still a friend with Rhaegar at this point, presumably. It would make sense for someone who considered Rhaegar his best friend to give the man a chance to set things to right. It'd be the honorable thing to do.

And then Rhaegar dies, and it all goes to hell in a handbasket. There's no returning then, not on terms that a man who was a great lord (the Connington's seem to have been a significant house in the stormlands before their fall), a boon companion to the Prince of Dragonstone, and a former Hand of the King would likely consider acceptable.

I'll be surprised if he's anything _but_ bitter, when I think about it.

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Here I agree. I argued against opinion that Connington could have grudge against all Targaryens and not only personally against Aerys. If Rhaegar survived the Trident and made changes he was talking to Jaime just before he left to his doom he would most probably return his friend from exile and restored to him all that was taken and probably even more.

Yet this means that Connington didn’t hate all Targaryens like Robert. At least at this point.

After Rhaegar death – yes everything seemed lost for him. Even if Robert would pardon him (he probably would if Connington has asked) he wouldn’t return to him what was lost and already given to the others. Yet in such a case a logical way for Connington would be to join the Golden Company where he could have got an honorable position. Or if he was really depressed to drunk himself to death that he supposed done.

But if he was informed that his late friend son is really alive and was proposed to become his mentor he would most probably agree. He would have nothing better to do and son of Rhaegar could possibly someday return to the throne.

To raise an impostor on the other hand does not look like a reason good enough.

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Pure speculation - but he might help an imposter if he thought it was divirting attention from the real Aegon.

You mean that there maybe an impostor and also a real Aegon somewhere? This is not impossible but mind that if Aegon is alive and somebody want him to ascent the throne then he should get a proper education and should be properly prepared for the task. Afraid but who could be better candidate for the job then Rhaegar’s dear friend, former Hand and good fighter and general. Having him working with impostor would be waste.

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Forgive me but you are talking about the situation after the Trident. Lord Jon cousin apparently went to Robert before it because after it the straggle was as well as done and he could expect pardon but no reward even that small.

This makes no sence if Ronnet HAD gone over to Robert durring the war he'd have expected a reward rather than the opposite of loosing 1/2 his lands and the rank of title. IRRC from other loyalist houses we've seen this seems likely a punishment for siding with Aerys, thus Ronnet like Jon would have supported Aerys till after the war was over then surrendered so as not to loose everything.

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