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The annoyingly perfect hero / heroine


Waterdancer

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Not sure if he really fits - Drizzt Do'Urden. I enjoy the nice brainless reads the books are, but so far as I can tell the only thing this perfectly conflicted mixture of good guy in an evil skin can't do is...I'm acutally not sure there is anything.

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Drizzt isn't too bad. Most of the time he's fighting people of CR like 3-4 levels lower than he is. ANYONE would look good doing that. The only real trouble would be the Balor, and that shouldn't be too much trouble for a well-prepared party of his level.

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It's a lion. And yes. She is the pioneer of animal domestication. Bet you didn't know that you can thank the rise of human civilization to one tall, leggy, blonde woman with a knack for languages?

Totally unrealistic, but that's why I call it "brain candy."

Gods, I'd forgotten the riding the lion bit (kind of sounds like a strange, sexual euphemism). She also had an amazing knack at being a veterinarian, zoologist and zoo-keeper in general (simultaneously raising a proto-horse and cave lion in the same freaking cave).

And don't forget that she had done all of this by age 16 or 17. . . . I'm ready to go on a rant, so I better shut up, now.

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Another factor in Rand al'Thor's ascension to superswordsman is that he is merging minds with Lews Therin who actually was a master swordsman. How much of Rand's skill with a blade is just a manifestation of Lews Therin Telamon's increasing control over him?

There are plenty of things wrong with WoT, but I don't think this is one of them.

OK, that makes some sense and I can buy that. Because I don't care how much time you put into something, it's pretty ridiculous to think anyone can become a master at it in a year or two. At least to me, it is.

I guess Rand doesn't really qualify as being annoyingly perfect. Maybe perfectly annoying?

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Wesley Sue Crusher. The kid who knows how the Enterprise works. Who saves it from an asteriod despite suffering some mental plague.

I need say no more.

Oh, there's at least one more thing to say. Remember that he is the creation of Eugene Wesley Roddenberry. Talk about your prototypical Mary Sue.

I dreamed about the episode where Welsey gets beaten up by the other kids on the Enterprise for being such a know-it-all.

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I don't really agree that Lessa is annoyingly perfect - she's a prize bitch, slightly unstable and frigid, for all her other qualities. That other queen rider that lost her dragon is much more bland and moral - Brekke? - and Menolly is a bit too perfect too. Come on, musical genius and NINE fire lizards?

Jaxom is pretty close to being perfect as well. He's the most progressive of the Lord Holders, a dragonrider with a unique dragon, a beautiful wife, just about everyone likes him (except for the bad guys) and he then ends up effectively in charge of destroying the Thread threat and uniquely trusted by AIVAS to carry out its plan. All this is particularly annoying in "The White Dragon" where he spends a significant amount of time whining about how unfair his life is despite being one of the most privileged people on the planet.

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Wesley Sue Crusher. The kid who knows how the Enterprise works. Who saves it from an asteriod despite suffering some mental plague.

Oh yes, without a doubt.

Will Wheaton has written a few rather entertaining summaries of TNG episodes at tvsquad. I particularly like the parts where he expresses his annoyance with the writing for his own character. ;)

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Reading this thread, I am glad yet again that I've never bothered with Clan of the Cave Chick and the Wheel of Time. :)

@Min: I was okay with Lessa being a prize bitch in Dragonflight. Though I wouldn't say she was exactly frigid, given her background and the struggles for power/control throughout that first book. Struck me it was more about letting herself be vulnerable enough to connect with a human, not just dragons, which she didn't do until the end. What really bothered me was that when I tried to figure out the timeline, it was all over the place.

@williamjm: I never really liked The White Dragon because Jaxom drove me crazy. Also the storyline opened up by the discovery of AIVAS was entirely goofy and ruined the last books of the series for me.

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Oh, and I don't understand why Rand al'Thor was nominated. Yes, he's an extremely powerful channeler, becomes very good with a sword and quite influent during the series, but he also becomes progressively more mad and paranoid, as well as being hated and feared by a large part of the world's population. That's hardly what I would call perfect, though of course YMMV.

Well, crazy or not everything he does turns out to be the very best thing that could have been done in this situation, no matter how stupid/ignorant/impossible, etc. it was. And all those gorgeous chicks falling all over him and agreeing to share him in complete equanimity. And most/all decent people who actually have personal contact with him end up by becoming his followers, it is only the ignorant/bad folks, who hate him. So, yes, Gary Stu if I ever saw one.

On the same note - Mat in TDR and afterwards. He is an even greater Gary Stu, because he doesn't even put the token effort that Rand does into anything, yet things always fall into his lap. He is also funny, rather than crazy, this got to be an advantage.

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Well, crazy or not everything he does turns out to be the very best thing that could have been done in this situation, no matter how stupid/ignorant/impossible, etc. it was. And all those gorgeous chicks falling all over him and agreeing to share him in complete equanimity. And most/all decent people who actually have personal contact with him end up by becoming his followers, it is only the ignorant/bad folks, who hate him. So, yes, Gary Stu if I ever saw one.

On the same note - Mat in TDR and afterwards. He is an even greater Gary Stu, because he doesn't even put the token effort that Rand does into anything, yet things always fall into his lap. He is also funny, rather than crazy, this got to be an advantage.

Everything he does doesn't turn out to be the very best thing. I mean, everything is going to work out so he can defeat the DO in the end, but it could have been accomplished in a lot better way. And it isn't because Rand is perfect--it's because the Wheel weaves and the Wheel wills, and he's a ta'veren. At least Jordan explains why coincidences happen to his protagonists, unlike some authors who just ignore the fact that the odds of their heroes finding the things they do are like a million to one.

And I love Matrim Cauthon to absolute death, I will hear no evil against him!! :tantrum: But really, he has the same ta'veren thing going on, although to a lesser extent than Rand, AND he has the whole DO's own luck angle. But he still has to work through things. His courtship of Tuon, for example. He works pretty effing hard at that. And before that he was being tied up in pink ribbons by an older woman....not exactly the best of circumstances.

:cheers:

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I don't see either of those as perfect. Serwe is completely delusional and nuts, and ends up getting killed. Kellhus, while having amazing physical and mental abilities, is a heartless bastard. Sure, everybody likes him because he manipulates them into liking him.

I just read this. She dies?! Really?!

*grin*

PoN is definitely getting a second chance.

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Well, crazy or not everything he does turns out to be the very best thing that could have been done in this situation, no matter how stupid/ignorant/impossible, etc. it was. And all those gorgeous chicks falling all over him and agreeing to share him in complete equanimity. And most/all decent people who actually have personal contact with him end up by becoming his followers, it is only the ignorant/bad folks, who hate him. So, yes, Gary Stu if I ever saw one.

Not everything he does turns out to be the best thing he could have done. He got captured by Aes Sedai because he made the mistake of meeting them alone in Lord of Chaos. He ignores Sea Folk emissaries , then when he finally goes to meet one, he leaves in the middle of negotiations, letting Aes Sedai sworn to him to do the rest of the bargaining (which results in a much harsher treaty than he would otherwise have had, since his ta'veren powers were apparently on in full at that meeting). He stupidly couldn't bring himself to harm a woman, and so Moiraine had to sacrifice herself to stop the Forsaken Lanfear from killing Rand. I know there are other examples, but I don't want to dig in the books right now. All in all, I'd say Rand has done plenty of mistakes that have been costly for him and his allies.

That three beautiful women would agree to share him is far-fatched, I agree, but he's spent most of the series apart from Elayne, and Aviendha was nothing short of viperish for nearly all their time together. The only one who has been truly present for and supportive of him is Min. He has wanted to stay away from all three, or send them away, for fear they might get hurt if they're near him.

If Rand really was a Gary Stu, then the situations I listed in the first paragraph would have been resolved far more smoothly than they did, and he'd be having a wild foursome near every night without fear of repercussions.

Oh, and there's the Prophecies of the Dragon. If Rand really was a Gary Stu, then those prophecies would be relatively easily to decipher, and most people would be looking forward for the rebirth of a legendary hero. Instead, the Dragon's Rebirth is an event much more feared than looked forward to by the people of Jordan's world, and many prophecies are rather bleak and foretell of harshness.

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About Rand-in terms of personal perfection, Rand has been going downhill physically and mentally-with each book he seems to be getting weaker. SPOILERS AHEAD. He's already going crazy, losing control over Lews Therin and thus his abilities, his visions worsening, his hand got blown off, making him almost useless if he wants to swordfight again...rather than learning and becoming uber powerful as some fantasy heroes, he no longer can go it alone. Against Semirhage, he would've been toast without having the power of Cadsuane, Nynaeve, and Logain behind him, to name a few...the fact that he has them might be a mark against him, but he himself is getting gradually owned. Not to mention the two unhealable wounds. Now if RJ pulls a Paoloni and Rand magically gets restored from all these ailments in book 12...then hes gonna be a decently bad Gary Stu.

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