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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Prologue - Spoilers for ADwD

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Varamyr would not call Bran a "baby", by any means. Also, the "long tooth" and the "smaller bone tooth" seem to be weapons -- a sword, I'd guess, and the woman had a bone dagger. Meera doesn't use weapons of bone, however.

These were just random wildlings fugitives. :)

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What if Bran not appear in ADwD

Except that George has said fairly recently that Bran will appear and have a 'major storyline' in ADWD.

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Varamyr would not call Bran a "baby", by any means. Also, the "long tooth" and the "smaller bone tooth" seem to be weapons -- a sword, I'd guess, and the woman had a bone dagger. Meera doesn't use weapons of bone, however.

These were just random wildlings fugitives. :)

Varamyr is in his wolf and he probably see thinks differently by wolf. Bran is kid and his legs are unable to react (underdeveloped). Someone need carry he. I can see that he is like baby by wolf eyes.

Hodor carry sword "long tooth" from crypt and Meera have her javelin, knife and crypt sword and maybe draconglass "smaller bone tooth" if I remember rightly.

Except that George has said fairly recently that Bran will appear and have a 'major storyline' in ADWD.

If Bran is in Hodor or Summer then he can have major storyline.

Meybe this is far-fetched, but that appaers my mind that sekond when I was read this reports.

This expound why this prologue is so important to GRRM.

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So Cold Hands can save Sam and Gilly from a large group of wights, but he can't help them fight off 3 wolves?

Yeah, that make sense.

If Cold Hand is no there then he/it can't do anything. Wolf don't see there elk either.

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So Cold Hands can save Sam and Gilly from a large group of wights, but he can't help them fight off 3 wolves?

Yeah, that make sense.

As I recall, it was the giant swarm of ravens that held off the wights. They may have been in league with Coldhands, but in no case did we see him fighting.

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If Cold Hand is no there then he/it can't do anything.

One can easily imagine the scene, too. "Well, kids, you get comfortable. Uncle Benjen's gonna go behind that there tree and have himself a piss and some of his 'magic' coffee. If the unholy armies of the night show up, just give me a blood-curdling scream, all right? Nighty-night!"

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Except that George has said fairly recently that Bran will appear and have a 'major storyline' in ADWD.

Is it true about major storyline.

When did he say that.

I thought Bran will only have couple chapters about his training

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When did he say that.

From one of his ADWD updates:

"A DANCE WITH DRAGONS will feature all the characters that you (and I) missed in A FEAST FOR CROWS. Jon, Tyrion, Davos, Dany, and Bran will all be present with major storylines, and toward the end of the novel Arya will appear as well, as will Asha Greyjoy. There will also be one new viewpoint character debuting and one old returning, giving me a total of nine POVs, plus the usual prologue."

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As I recall, it was the giant swarm of ravens that held off the wights. They may have been in league with Coldhands, but in no case did we see him fighting.

I think it was clearly implied that the raves were either working with or under the command of Coldhands.

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I think it was clearly implied that the raves were either working with or under the command of Coldhands.

Nonsense. They were clearly a rabid flock of ravens that just happened to have good timing.

:rolleyes:

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*snort* Nonsense. The ravens were jointly warging into the corpse of Benjen Stark and reanimating it.

Alas, they didn't have the warg power to keep his hands warm.

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Varamyr is in his wolf and he probably see thinks differently by wolf. Bran is kid and his legs are unable to react (underdeveloped). Someone need carry he. I can see that he is like baby by wolf eyes.

Hodor carry sword "long tooth" from crypt and Meera have her javelin, knife and crypt sword and maybe draconglass "smaller bone tooth" if I remember rightly.

If Bran is in Hodor or Summer then he can have major storyline.

Meybe this is far-fetched, but that appaers my mind that sekond when I was read this reports.

This expound why this prologue is so important to GRRM.

It was very clear at the reading that these people were random wildilngs. And the pup was a BABY, crying and sqealing. Plus if I recall correctly the woman's breasts were full of milk, further indicating that she was nursing the child. The men were dirty and desperate, and didn't put up much of a fight. There was no direwolf (Summer) with them. Also I assume, given the end of the chapter, that there is a chance that wargy-types can recognize other wargy-types when they are doing their wargy-thing, although this is only my assumption and may not hold up given past events ( I don't remember, does Jon know when Orell or Varamyr is warging? Did Melisandre know that Orell was in the eagle when she zapped it?) Anyways, I think if you ask anyone at the reading at InCon, the people killed at the beginning were not in any way at all related to the major characters. I think it was an important chapter for GRRM because he had to include so much important information in it, not because some crucial event occurred in it. But that's just my opinion.

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( I don't remember, does Jon know when Orell or Varamyr is warging? Did Melisandre know that Orell was in the eagle when she zapped it?)

We don't know about Melisandre, but Jon feels that there was something of Bran in Summer, and can see Orell's hatred in the bird's eyes.

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It was very clear at the reading that these people were random wildilngs. And the pup was a BABY, crying and sqealing. Plus if I recall correctly the woman's breasts were full of milk, further indicating that she was nursing the child. The men were dirty and desperate, and didn't put up much of a fight. There was no direwolf (Summer) with them. Also I assume, given the end of the chapter, that there is a chance that wargy-types can recognize other wargy-types when they are doing their wargy-thing, although this is only my assumption and may not hold up given past events ( I don't remember, does Jon know when Orell or Varamyr is warging? Did Melisandre know that Orell was in the eagle when she zapped it?) Anyways, I think if you ask anyone at the reading at InCon, the people killed at the beginning were not in any way at all related to the major characters. I think it was an important chapter for GRRM because he had to include so much important information in it, not because some crucial event occurred in it. But that's just my opinion.

I believe that you know if you are heard GRRM read it. Thanks for put my mind at rest

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Why don't you move this topic to DWD subforum?

Suggestion thirded. Lots of people are going to miss this if it stays in the Brotherhood forum. A copy of it in the DWD subforum would be nice, IMO.

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Jon is also totally untrained as a warg, lacking even the rudimentary information conveyed to Bran. He might well miss signs that were obvious to Orell or Varamyr.

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i wonder if this recent movement of the Other's army is related to the bland horn Ghost found with the dragonglass. Sam has blown this horn, so that is always something to consider. general agreement on a lot of the comments made, im glad we have been given such a monumental chapter to sink our teeth into. it amazes me how deep martins world becomes with each piece of new information revealed. imo he is approaching a level on par with tolkiens world, even though it is set in this archaic fantasy setting it is just so REAL. i am always flabbergasted at the extent of the universe tolkien created, and see grrms dedication as homage to this lost style

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imo he is approaching a level on par with tolkiens world, even though it is set in this archaic fantasy setting it is just so REAL. i am always flabbergasted at the extent of the universe tolkien created, and see grrms dedication as homage to this lost style

GRRM could never approach Tolkien's level of world building. He said so himself. I had a discussion with him about that in person, because I am a huge fan of world building in general, and Tolkien's world in particular. George said that JRRT could come up with such a complete and living world because JRRT wrote as a hobby, and did not have to sustain himself on that (which is very true - LotR took ~13 years to complete, and there was a huge amount of world already created before that). In George's own words, Tolkien alone had the luxury of having the entire iceberg, with readers seeing only the tip. The other authors, including George himself, must make the same impression on readers. Some of them do it well, some of them do it poorly, but none of them have the entire iceberg - at best, they have a raft with a pile of ice on it, and nothing under.

When I asked him, George said he did not know anything whatsoever about the world before he started the first book. He only had an idea about the scene with the wolf pups. Then, at about page 100 or so, he sat down and though a bit - "Hey, I should include kingdoms, how about six, or eight... seven is a good number." I cannot imagine Tolkien doing that. George is still perhaps the best of the rest, but JRRT is in a league of his own. No professional author can join him in terms of world building for the simple reason of being paid to write books, with everything stemming from that (deadlines, crass commercialist publishers, etc).

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First, let me also thank those who shared this exciting information with us :) It truly fires the imagination! Here are my initial thoughts after reading the details of this prologue chapter:

- As was mentioned above, I think Varamyr is definitely here to show us the "bad" side of warging, etc.

- I believe that one or more of the Stark kids will be faced with the choice of how to use their warging abilities: in the "bad", forcible way (like Varamyr) or only join with willing partners. Along with this I think one or more of the Stark kids will be sorely tempted with the choice of whether or not to do the forbidden thing of which Varamyr spoke: taking over another person to "cheat" death. When faced with the choice of death or perhaps having a "second life" I know I'd be sorely tempted! I think this concept and dilemma will have huge implications for Bran and Hodor before the end (to name the most obvious).

- I believe we'll meet someone who has done or is doing something similar: taking over creatures, but maybe not people, to "cheat" death. I think this will be the Three-Eyed Crow. Right now, I believe the Three-Eyed Crow is Bloodraven. I think there are just too many symbolic hints at this for it not to be. I also think this would answer the question of, if Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow, how could he still be alive? I think his physical body perished long ago but that he's been warg-hopping ever since. This could mean Bloodraven really could be "in" Mormont's raven but I don't think that's the only creature he's "in". Also, it sets up an interesting moral dilemma or "gray area": what do we think of the Three-Eyed Crow if he's doing something "forbidden", maybe even considered heinous, but it's for a very good reason (to be around long enough to help fight the Others)? Hmm...

- I also believe we'll meet someone doing or attempting this "forbidden" warging act of forcibly taking over another person because I think Martin introduced it to us for a reason. I guess it's along the lines of that old adage about "not introducing a gun in the first act that's not going to be used by the third act".

- Here's a question for everyone: If it's considered risky to warg with a bird because the warg may "lose themselves" in the bird then how much more risky would it be to warg with a dragon?!

- The worship of the Old Gods always reminds me a bit of the Shinto religion (everything has a "spirit", etc., even rocks, trees, anything and everthing) and now I think that even more. This is because of how it was descibed that Varamyr was in "everything" when he was reaching out for something to warg with and by how, when his brother died, his mother described the boy as being "in" everything now.

Well, those are my hazy, very initial thoughts when reading the wonderful details of this prologue. Maybe some more will come to mind later...

(edited to clarify - hopefully...)

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