NFL Thread

[DanteGabriel]

Caliban,

Well argued. But I still felt like the Bears had a chance to get back into it until Rex's second interception on the next series, still early in the 4th, took out what little bit of air was left in their sails. Maybe I'm in the minority on my view. Lord knows I was certainly rooting for the Bears (ironically enough) and really hoping Grossman would succeed. Ah, well.

[Caliban]

This is becoming an insanity within you.

Im in the carriage, I just dont hold the reigns. I have been driven to insanity by the Rex haters who have all slopped up what the sports media has spoonfed them. Grossman is the most, and its not even close, negatively targeted player in pro football. No other player's lease is as short, no other player's bad games are reveled at to the extent that Rex's are. The media LOVES when Grossman fails. They love it.

Come on Jaime L, worst super bowl performance ever? The headlines after the game were all negative grossman headlines, not positive Colts headlines. It was lowlights.

I have to support my guy. I have to. Honestly, if there werent people like me, and there are others (we come out of cavs in the night, drunk, and ready to talk Grossman), grossman would just get shit on by everybody. My voice needs to be louder and more beligerent then the equivilient of 15 detractors. We are outnumbered. We are kind of like the Kurds but without America. Like 1980s Kurds.

[Andrik the Unsmiling]

Maybe it's because I'm a Niner fan/worshiper of the West Coast Offense, but personally I don't go in for the "Favre gunslinger" QB mentality. When the chips are down, that's when a QB needs to really focus on ball security-- you can't come from behind if you're throwing the ball away.

I guess this year will tell the tale. If Rex steps up, plays well, and hangs onto the football/doesn't throw games away then in that case Cal, I suppose you and a few other Bears fanatics have outsmarted the world, and more power to you for that.

[Kalbear]

The biggest problem with Grossman's performance in the superbowl was exactly what Caliban said. In the first half, he was 10 of 12. That's great, right? Really accurate, strong performance.

For 50 yards.

You call that kind of game when you don't trust your QB to do anything more than tie his shoes. That is called putting your QB on a leash. He got to do quick throws, 3-step drops, dumpoffs to the FB and TE. He showed this as well at the end of the regular season; he was put on a tight leash. At the end of the regular season he didn't do so great at it, but he did improve and became a reasonable game manager, similar to what David Carr was allowed to do this prior season. (David Carr threw for 69% accuracy but something like a 5.2 average)

Now, the problem here is simple; Grossman is fine in that role when the team is ahead. When you're behind, as Caliban indicated, you can't just manage the game. You have to make plays, to make drives when it counts, to not make stupid mistakes, to not run backwards and throw lame ducks. Grossman didn't do that. He didn't throw away the game; the Bears lost because Indy is a better team and Indy's strengths matched up well against the Bears, and because the Bears lost Jones and had to rely on Benson (who as I stated before the game, was a bad matchup for the Bears). Grossman's mistakes didn't cost the Bears a winnable game or anything; they had already lost the SB prior to all this. Grossman's lack of talent ensured that the Bears couldn't come back from it however. DG was right - the Bears did have quite a few chances and Grossman blew them. But that wasn't the primary reason that they lost.

Keep in mind though - Grossman's offense only scored 10 points against the Colt defense, and that was with absurd field position thanks to the Bears special teams. That's not so hot.

[Caliban]

Kalbear,

your "absurd field position" claim is false

Bears starting points = on their own: 35, 34, 35, 5, 22, 36, 36, 32, 20, 20, 8, 16 and one on the Indy 40.

Do you forget Seattle? Grossman didnt put himself on a lease. The staff did that because of the weather. Manning certainly had one hand tied behind his back as well. He only completed one long pass, and that was on the coverage breakdown by Daniel Manning.

Grossman finished the season like this:

| 14 stl | 13 23 200 2 0 | 3 20 0 |

| 15 tam | 29 44 339 2 0 | 0 0 0 |

| 16 det | 20 36 197 1 0 | 0 0 0 |

| 17 gnb | 2 12 33 0 3 | 2 -1 0

Those were three pretty big games going into the Green Bay debacle. I would hardly call that game management, or having a short leash.

Then against Seattle:

2006 sea W,27-24 | 21 38 282 1 1 | 0 0 0

And the NFC championship only looked like this:

2006 nor W,39-14 | 11 26 144 1 0 | 2 -3 0

because we dominated from so early on.

In a sense I do agree with you, Kal, Grossman was needed to step up and he didnt. But seriously, how many QBs in the NFL win the SB game in Grossman's place. How many win the Seattle game? Griese? I have no reason to believe greise wins the Seattle game.

[Kalbear]

The Bears opened the superbowl with a kick return for a TD. If you factor that in, their average starting position is something like the Bears 43. That's amazing field position. Even if you take the above numbers only, they got good field position, starting on the average of the 30.

STL, Tampa, and Detroit were (in order) the 32nd, 30th, and 31st-worst passing defenses in the league. I notice you leave out the game right before St. Louis, where he actually plays a competent defense and passes for 34 yards. Here is a great article detailing what I was talking about in giving Grossman easy pickings. You see this in the superbowl; the Bears passed for an average of 5.9 yards a completion and their leading receiver was their TE, their second leading receiver was the RB. Between the two, they caught half of the passes in the Bears offense. The prior week, Grossman completes less than half his passes and 30% of his passes go to McKie, the fullback. (Berrian was amazing that game, but no one else was).

Now you'll bring up Seattle. Seattle was a team that had lost its first three cornerbacks and its safety to injury; they were literally signing people off the street to play in the playoff game. Grossman is great against teams like this (look at what he did to Tampa, StL and Detroit) and it showed - 21/38, 280 yards. Berrian and Rasheed Davis were the big winners here too, catching half of the passes. Which is what we've said all along - Grossman is amazing against poor defenses.

What's odd is that he wasn't that good against the Colts, who are by all accounts a poor defense. Except...they're not. They're a poor running defense. They're actually a pretty solid pass defense, which is sort of Dungy's philosophy - sell out the run to get the pass. Between the poor line play of the Bears (especially on passing), Grossman's poor behavior against good rushes (see: Arizona, Miami) and Sanders returning, and losing Jones later - the Bears were going to have some issues, especially Grossman.

Also:

because we dominated from so early on.

No, the Bears didn't dominate anything early on. It was 16-14 Bears at the end of the 3rd, and until the safety the game was very much anyone's. It was only after the safety (which gave the Bears amazing field position again) and the next TD in the 4th quarter that the game was owned by the Bears - but until then, it was pretty scary and Grossman had looked absolutely lame. Grossman didn't have a completed pass until 12 minutes into the game, and he had 2-8 for 8 yards into the second quarter. The bears got the ball at the three and he couldn't put it in.

[Stego]

Grossman is the most, and its not even close, negatively targeted player in pro football.

In the same week that Mike Vick is pleading guilty to dog fighting charges after the media, fans, and interest groups alike have been lambasting him with no mercy, you make this statement.

I won't mention T.O., Tank Johnson, or Pacman Jones. No need to.

The problem is, you actually believe your verbal puss spout. To say you are being foolish about this is to say the Atlantic is a bit damp.

And for the record, I no longer play fantasy football. I have never intimated that I knew much about it, by the way. I just know that people who judge players based upon it are morons.

And that Trent Dilfer is, was, and always will be ten times the quarterback that Rexy is.

[Stego]

Looks like Asante Samuel is on his way back to the Pats.

Richer and richer.

[Bazzlebane]

Long term, or just a (SB) year?