the Dany hate thread

[Ser Hot Pie]

I Dany.

[Daemrion]

Daemrion,

So it's her fault that her family was annihilated, mostly before she was even born? I'm not sure how this is a strike against her.

Well, no. But the point still stands. As of now, the direwolves are shared, the dragons are not.

[Nayrael (aka Akul)]

I like Dany, both her chapters and her as a character.

I hate the fact that people hate her for wanting the Iron Throne. They forget that Modern and medieval world ain't same. If Dany didn't want the throne I would consider her to be mad or a cliche character who just wants to help other people and accidently gets the Iron Throne just to help all those loving men and women. Not to mention that she can only go to westeros. Wherever she goes she will be considered an outsider. Perhaps she could menage to find a home for herself, but dragons make that hard. Everyone in the East want her dragons to be theirs or to be dead and

SPOILER: ADWD

it seems that a lot of free cities wish both her and her dragons dead. Quart and Yunkaii shall declare an open war. Meereenesi want to see her dead. Astapor shall also want her dead. Ilyrio leaving Pentos shows that even Pentos shall go into war with her. And Dohtraki want her too.

Only Westeros might accept her. She has no choice but to go there. And the only way to get accepted is by making the Westerosi her subjects. Just there she can finally find a place that she can call home.

I also don't believe that George shall make Dany's future so predictable.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I'm not sure how accurate it is to read arrogance into that brief passage. To me it seemed like no more than musing about the perspective from the top of an 800 foot tall pyramid, and the sad isolation that power causes...not unlike Stannis' "Kings don't have friends, only enemies and subjects", ie: the changes wrought by a person's position. It's not like she's cackling about how she can smite down anyone who displeases her or reveling in her omnipotence in any way.

I said that she was being arrogant, not that she was engaging in cartoonish supervillainy.

[Vhagar]

I also don't believe that George shall make Dany's future so predictable.

Thank you. I agree.

Only I don't care for her. I liked her at first but now I just want to slap her. Hopefully that will change because certainly she's more than pivotal, but I don't expect her to make it to the end of the series. I know that is a very unpopular view, but...I can't even say why she annoys me so much, but she does.

[Starkess]

I don't really like Dany, in fact I downright dislike her, but I wouldn't call myself a Dany-hater. She is what she is. Really, if anything, I'm annoyed at GRRM for creating her.

[Guest]

I can't help it but she just seems like an empty personality to me. Or that I can't figure out what she's like. Every other POV character, I have this picture perfect impression of them as I read. With her, I'm like "who is this." She's like an empty shell. But I don't dislike her. I am hoping that with Tyrion, Victarion, Quentin, heading out there, that her chapters will be great in the next books.

[Greyjoy Rebellion]

I can't help it but she just seems like an empty personality to me. Or that I can't figure out what she's like. Every other POV character, I have this picture perfect impression of them as I read. With her, I'm like "who is this." She's like an empty shell. But I don't dislike her. I am hoping that with Tyrion, Victarion, Quentin, heading out there, that her chapters will be great in the next books.

and herein lies the problem: It seems like there's only one Daenerys chapter for every 3 Tyrion or Sansa chapters. I understand this, because her story is so disjointed from the rest of the tale, but I love Dany and I want to read more and more about her, and I'm always disappointed that I seemingly have to wait 130 pages every time to pick up her story again. There's probably less than 20 total chapters devote to Dany in the series thus far.

I actually had no problem getting an impression of her and figuring out what she's like, and I quite like her, particularly when compared with a spineless waif like Sansa Stark.

[Greyjoy Rebellion]

for example:

Dany chapters in ACOK: 5; 51 total pages out of 728.

I'll bet there's at least twice that many in that book devoted to Arya squirelling away somewhere or Sansa cowering in the Red Keep.

Another thing about Dany: since none of the other storylines overlap with her, you don't see her character ever reinforced from someone else's perspective. Whereas with Catelyn or Sansa or anyone else in the Seven Kingdoms you get both a first person and a third person account of them. With Dany, it's just her POV.

[L'Sana]

I don't dislike Dany, particularly, but I have two reservations that make me not want to see her on the Iron Throne at the end.

1. She's had it too easy. Yes, we've been told that she had a hard childhood, and I don't disbelieve it, but I didn't experience it with her. Vague descriptions of Viserys' temper and running from imaginary assasins don't compare to the chapters of horror we went through with, for example, Arya and Sansa. Since the book started, every "tragedy" that has befallen her has had a silver lining bigger than the original catastrophe.

2. I mentioned on another thread that she has developed a nasty habit of burning people alive. Yes, they all deserved it in some sense, but that is the very last trait I want to see in a Targaryen ruler. I can't help thinking her moral compass only needs to shift a bit farther before we she would turn into another Aerys. After all, Aerys thought those he burned deserved it as well...

[Blackest_Fyre]

I don't dislike Dany, particularly, but I have two reservations that make me not want to see her on the Iron Throne at the end.

1. She's had it too easy. Yes, we've been told that she had a hard childhood, and I don't disbelieve it, but I didn't experience it with her. Vague descriptions of Viserys' temper and running from imaginary assasins don't compare to the chapters of horror we went through with, for example, Arya and Sansa. Since the book started, every "tragedy" that has befallen her has had a silver lining bigger than the original catastrophe.

2. I mentioned on another thread that she has developed a nasty habit of burning people alive. Yes, they all deserved it in some sense, but that is the very last trait I want to see in a Targaryen ruler. I can't help thinking her moral compass only needs to shift a bit farther before we she would turn into another Aerys. After all, Aerys thought those he burned deserved it as well...

Insofar as the first point, I think we'll see her encounter some hardships in ADWD. And the second...well, as long as she keeps it just, method doesn't matter too much to me.

[Donnachaidh]

I'm not a big fan of Dany. I don't hate her persé, but she has become a wee bit too arrogant and selfabsorbed imho. This is best seen in the way she treats her dragons. In book one the eggs were everything, her hope, her comfort. In book two they were her children. By the end of Storm of Swords they're just a means to an end.

Also someone really needs to inform her off the truth. Her father was psycho. Which brings me to the point of why I don't want a Targ on the throne. I forget which character said it about how everything a Targ is born the gods flip a coin. One side is brilliance the other one insanity. So Dany wins the throne, MMD was wrong and she gets pregnant, the gods flip a coin and boom... we got another Aerys or worse Viscerys. Better rid us of the Targs all together.

[Daemrion]

Also someone really needs to inform her off the truth. Her father was psycho.

Yes, maybe Barristan will, but even he doesn't know the full psychoness of Aerys. Only Jaime and Brienne know.

Which brings me to the point of why I don't want a Targ on the throne. I forget which character said it about how everything a Targ is born the gods flip a coin. One side is brilliance the other one insanity. So Dany wins the throne, MMD was wrong and she gets pregnant, the gods flip a coin and boom... we got another Aerys or worse Viscerys. Better rid us of the Targs all together.

Well, I think that's mainly because they incested too much. If they actually decided to marry outside the family (like Dany will have to unless she gets it on with Aemon's corpse or Jon if R+L=J), I think the instances of insanity might be a bit less.

My hope is that MMD is right, her womb is ruined. Meaning we will crown someone else.

[The Sword of Early Afternoon]

I have a very hard time understanding the Dany-hate. She's basically Arya (who's great) with more compassion and leadership, right? I know this comparison has often been made. Both are young girls suddenly left on their own in awful situations following their father's murder, and they mostly just want to get back to the home they once knew, though that's become impossible. Arya is consumed by hate and the desire for revenge, which are totally understandable and normal sentiments. And she survives, which is impressive. But Dany rises above her situation, finds her "inner leader", and sets out to do nothing less than change the world -- to make it better for common people.

She constantly thinks about how she can improve, and how she can help people. The only other characters we see who go out of their way to help non-family members are Tyrion and Jon, neither of which attempt it, or succeed at it, to the extent Dany does. She has enormous failures as well, b/c it's incredibly difficult.

And Dany thinks she should be Queen of Westeros. But she realizes that she needs to be worthy of the title -- sensible, humble thinking we otherwise only see from Stannis, and that belatedly and with a big assist from Davos. And BTW... DANY'S THE RIGHTFUL HEIR! (Based on what we know.)

Is she too arrogant? Or just too arrogant for a woman?? I don't get it. With the benefit of reading her thoughts, we see that she's as self-aware and wanting to improve as a person and a ruler as anyone else in the series -- more, arguably. In our last look at her, in ASoS, she's once again making a self-disciplined, selfless decision to put the needs of the people before her own desires. She wants to do good. She does a lot of good. What more do people want? Does her name need to be Stark?

It seems like 1 of every 3 or 4 people dislike Dany, so there must be a reason. But I read these anti-Dany threads and I just cannot see it.

[side note: It's a great tribute to GRRM's writing that we can argue over good/evil, and like/dislike wrt so many characters. You don't exactly see that in Tolkien, or any of the Tolkien wannabees whose titles clog the fantasy section of your local bookstore.]

[Crazydog7]

Oh my god a Dany hate thread and I didn't start it!!! Yes she is one of the most arrogant shallow charecter of the serise although her arrogence is born from a lack of information given to her by her batshit fucking crazy brother. I'm sure once she has a chance to sit down with Ser Bastin Selmy and get the truth some of her views will change.

These threads are always a bloodbath and I will be here to watch the deathmatch,

go go gadget flamewar!!!

[Enguerrand]

She's had it too easy. Yes, we've been told that she had a hard childhood, and I don't disbelieve it, but I didn't experience it with her. Vague descriptions of Viserys' temper and running from imaginary assasins don't compare to the chapters of horror we went through with, for example, Arya and Sansa.

Hmm... Dany’s mother died birthing her, her brother was killed in war, her father and the rest of her family raped and murdered. She was raised in exile with an lunatic abusive brother deprived of the family’s fortune, living in constant fear of assassins. Sold too a barbarian warlord at the age of thirteen, that tortured her last brother to death, having her husband turned into a vegetable, and put him out of his misery and had her son turned into a putrid husk in her womb by witchcraft.

In comparison Arya and Sansa have had some of the most loving and privileged lives in Martinworld.

Since the book started, every "tragedy" that has befallen her has had a silver lining bigger than the original catastrophe.

The thing is that Dany fights for that silver lining. She refuses to be a victim and makes her own lemonade. Tears won't keep her alive. I think she is far more traumatized then what people realize. Notice the casualness which she impale, burn, or shred people behind her horse. She almost never seems troubled by it and she is a teenager.

[Lord O' Bones]

they mostly just want to get back to the home they once knew, though that's become impossible.

I agree with 99% of your post.

I just wanted to point out though, that Dany has never set foot in Westeros and only by a technicality was ever present there at all, and that not even on the mainland.

Otherwise rock on.

[Demonic Weasel]

My problem with Dany is that she doesn't seem to yet understand what a fragile concept 'justice' is. These are her early days as a ruler. If she survives, she could be a lot more similar to her father, or Joff, or Robert, or any rotten ruler. Being king should be about justice, but it isn't really. And she has yet to learn that.

[Enguerrand]

She's basically Arya (who's great) with more compassion and leadership, right?

Arya is a tom-boy, those always gets love. If Dany was Xena the warrior princess I’m sure she would have more fans. I think it’s that Dany embraces her feminity yet pursue power with her sense of entitlement that raises the hackles. Cersie does something similar but she is the bad girl and we all know she have/would get her snooty nose banged up. While Dany is a protagonist, we are supposes to sympathize with her and many people don’t care for that.

Is she too arrogant? Or just too arrogant for a woman?

If the last Targayren heir had been smart, decisive, and handsome and male I think there would be far less threads about his arrogance.

[Ned Stark Fan]

i don't really care for her character either. i find her chapters boring 90 % of the time and i find it hard that a girl of such age can act like that...

Sometimes i think she acts like a spoiled brat though...