Jump to content

David Anthony Durham on being a "color blind" reader


Larry.

Recommended Posts

It is like when you pick up a Charles Dickens novel, you can better understand the message he's try to tell you, when you know a bit of his social background

Do I? I have no idea about Charles Dicken's background. Not a clue. (Not that I'm proud of that. It just never occurred to me.) But I do think I get his message very well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it was a conversation, then yeah, maybe. But we've had the discussion many times about how the author ought to be getting any and all of that message across within the text itself, and then the interpretation is up to the reader. Maybe JK Rowling intended Umbridge to be the heroine and is shocked that everyone else sees her as the villain - but the author's intentions do not matter when it comes to readers' views.

That's just my point. That attitude is prevalent, for some reason, when reading SF/F: nothing matters except what happens in the reader's mind. But it's a hell of a limiting way to read. Avoiding even 'minorities', wouldn't you say that reading Graham Greene without knowing about his religious views is the 'full experience'? Or to turn it to a genre subject closer to your heart ;) - are readers who are ignorant of Tairy Goodkind's beliefs (the vast majority of his readers in my experience) really able to evaluate how bad his books are properly without that knowledge? :P

And when Durham says 'if you'd read a book by a black author, you'd know', I take it that what he means is that there is in most cases, within the text itself, content that is relevant to the author's race. But you can easily miss that sort of thing if you don't know anything about the author.

What I'm saying is: authors aren't faceless book-writing robots, writing from an entirely neutral perspective, but it's a fact that lots of readers tend to treat them as such.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- are readers who are ignorant of Tairy Goodkind's beliefs (the vast majority of his readers in my experience) really able to evaluate how bad his books are properly without that knowledge? :P

Well played! For a moment I though you'd won the debate by using the Tairy-card.

But I think I can deliver the killing blow:

So do you think there should be a section in the book store called "Books by Objectivists"?And that people should consider picking one up, in the name of diversity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So do you think there should be a section in the book store called "Books by Objectivists"?And that people should consider picking one up, in the name of diversity
.

Good heavens, no. And I don't think there should be a section for African-American authors either. I'm not sure, but my impression was that Mr Durham doesn't either. There's a difference between being informed about an author's background, and classifying their books by it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Durham, I guess I'm part of the problem. I'm color-blind. I read books and make friends on the common merits/interests/etc, not by first checking out the racial make up of the person (or book for this discussion) in question.

To say this makes me closed to other cultures is ludicrous.

I'm a white boy who grew up in South Carolina. One of my best friends throughout middle schol was black. My wife is Ecuadorian. My current friends are almost all non-American (Indonesian, Italian, Mexican, Nigerian, Japanese, Russian/Israeli, Peruvian, Finnish, English, etc). I didn't make friends with these people (or marry my wife) on some quest to be multi-cultural. I met them through shared interests, and in the process learned more about their backgrounds and cultures.

To me, being color blind isn't a matter of ignoring that racism exists. It's an attempt to not let race influence how I view people.

Back to books: I choose books with interesting topics. The fact that Pride of Carthage is on my reading list has nothing to do with the background of the author. Now, at the same time, it is the background of the author that makes the book unique. Durham's background of growing up as a minority influences how he wrote the book, just as being white influences how GRRM writes ASOIAF. The writer in them uses those experiences and channels them into their characters. They are good writers, using their experiences to flesh out their tales. Having the experience doesn't mean you'll write a compelling story. I'd rather seek out good writers than average writers with a specific experience everytime.

I'll continue to search out compelling writers (and interesting people) based on their merits first. The cultural differences is just icing on the cake. And doesn't eveyone just love icing? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, when I clicked the link I thought I was in for a discussion of how not being able to separate red and green affects one's ability to process written scenery information...

I've read multiple books by both Octavia Butler and Samuel Delany. I could never have guessed that either was black if I hadn't been told so in this thread. But then, I'm an European.

I subscribe to a separation of fiction and nonfiction. As far as I'm concerned, fiction is strictly for entertainment whereas education belongs to nonfiction. Sure, you can cram "issues" into fiction, but that is an easy way to get bad fiction. (See Tairy for a "good" example.) The same issues handled in nonfiction would almost certainly be far more concise and/or indepth and could also well be more entertaining since there was less fluff.

I'm not interested in authors' personal lives. If some aren't good enough writers that their books can't be properly appreciated without supplemental material, it's their problem. They can have introductions or appendices, but I'm not going to hunt down some dry biography in order to enjoy some dry novel, particularly as I'm rather sceptical that that would even work...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I feel the need the diversify my selection of authors and avoid being a color-blind reader, I'll make sure to do it when reading a non-fiction account of current events, or perhaps a history book. When it comes to fantasy, I have no interest at all in seeking out writers of color (though I'll certainly won't preclude reading those writers either, and in fact, as it happens, I've already read Durham) and I couldn't care less whether or not a particular author chooses to make his fantasy world multicultural. I do think it's important that minorities are represented in the American political process, to name only one example, but I couldn't care less whether minorites are represented in the Westeros political process, or whether there are a such thing as minorities in Westeros in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought about mentioning the fact that Durham is the only black epic fantasy writer I can think of, but I decided not to, partly because I wasn't sure if it was all that relevant when talking about Acacia and partly because I felt that perhaps Durham didn't want to be known as the First! Black! Epic! Fantasy! Writer!

Judging from this post on his blog, it seems that he wouldn't really have any problem with it, but it is always difficult to judge how people will react when you bring up race in a discussion, and I as a European have never really felt comfortable dealing with the issue of race from this (as I see it) particularly American perspective.

I still think it's extremely interesting that Durham might actually be the first black epic fantasy writer, only some thirty years after the genre took off as a commercially viable marketplace. Why this is, I do not know. Maybe it is that there are too few characters in the genre that black readers can identify with, or maybe it is that publishers aren't interested in books by black writers that don't fit in an African-American section in the book stores, but whatever the reason I do think that this discrepancy says something interesting about the genre and I also think that it is something that is worth looking further into.

The fact that Durham appears to be the first black epic fantasy writer does make his book more appealing to me, but more for the potential for different perspective than for anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, the only thing I care about when buying a book is whether or not I'll like it. I doubt that the author's racial heritage will have any kind of measurable effect on that, and before reading this thread, I never thought this was an issue.

As for Durham's question, well, I don't know. In general, I only know what an author looks like if there's a picture of him/her on the dustjacket. However, if Ran's figure of 95% of SF/F authors being white is correct, then it's quite possible that I've not read anything by a black author. However, this doesn't mean I'm going to immediately rush out and buy Acacia or Pride of Carthage (I'm not falling for your sneaky guilt-based marketing tactic, Mr Durham! :P). I'll approach them in my usual fashion - read reviews, read the blurbs, etc, and decide if I think it's something I'd like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or to turn it to a genre subject closer to your heart ;) - are readers who are ignorant of Tairy Goodkind's beliefs (the vast majority of his readers in my experience) really able to evaluate how bad his books are properly without that knowledge? :P

Of course they are. When Tairy says that rape is just democracy in action, does it really have any bearing on the quality (or lack thereof) of his books? Not really, IMO. It might say something about why he has Kahlan gets almost-raped at least once in every book, but the almost-rape is no more or less ridiculous for that. Why should it be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is something for everyone to consider. Just read through it and try to consider why these statements are being made before replying, okay? This is very similar to some of the courses I've had to take before and perhaps it'll allow a consideration of this viewpoint that may or may not be different from your personal one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ETA: These things differ across nations, cultures, and times. I'm pretty sure Martin Luther King would be pretty appalled at seeing an African–American section in the book store.

Well, I hope his first reaction would be happiness that enough African Americans were being published to warrant their own section. Then he may feel a little sadness that people were still being judged sometimes by the color of their skin, rather than their characters.

Anyways, some of you were actually shocked there was an African American section in bookstores? Should I be the first to break it you that there is also a Black Entertainment Channel on TV? I think the analogy is apt, just like some African American viewers like to watch themes that resonate with them on TV, they also may like to read such books too. This categorization makes it easier for them to find such books. No biggie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember reading a newspaper article almost 10 years ago that noted that after the Cosby Show went off the air, there were very few shows that made both the Top 10 watched by whites and Top 10 watched by blacks. Interesting...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I hope his first reaction would be happiness that enough African Americans were being published to warrant their own section. Then he may feel a little sadness that people were still being judged sometimes by the color of their skin, rather than their characters.

Anyways, some of you were actually shocked there was an African American section in bookstores? Should I be the first to break it you that there is also a Black Entertainment Channel on TV? I think the analogy is apt, just like some African American viewers like to watch themes that resonate with them on TV, they also may like to read such books too. This categorization makes it easier for them to find such books. No biggie.

Comparing African American section in a store to BET is disingenious. A TV personality can choose to both go on BET and also on other non-race specific channels. They aren't being shunted there by virtue of being black. A non-black person would also AFAIK not be denied the opportunity to be part of a broadcast on BET simply by virtue of being non-black (assuming the content was relevant to the philosophy and purpose of the station). A similar example would be the NPR program "News and Notes" which features stories of interest to blacks, but occasionally features non-blacks as well (and in many cities is broadcast in prime time, making it inevitable that much of its listenership is non-black, i used to listen to this show all the time).

On the other hand, writers who are African or African American are often suhnted by default into the Af Am Lit section of the bookstore. When I went to this section, it seemed composed mostly of black chick lit. And Octavia Butler. And apparently David Anthony Durham. Now I'm skeptical that Butler and Durham felt their work was comparable to chick lit, or was geared towards the same audience. In fact, at least when I read Butler, it seems obvious to me that she is not writing solely for a black audience. Then why assume that will or should be her audience? It even seems odd to me to segregate black chick lit from white or asian chick lit. Why not throw them all into "Romance" and let the buyer discriminate (based on the colour of skin of the cartoonish woman in heels on the cover?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyways, some of you were actually shocked there was an African American section in bookstores? Should I be the first to break it you that there is also a Black Entertainment Channel on TV? I think the analogy is apt, just like some African American viewers like to watch themes that resonate with them on TV, they also may like to read such books too. This categorization makes it easier for them to find such books. No biggie.

The difference is that BET (the equivalent up here in Canada) is television FOR black people. Just like TSN is TV for sports lovers and Space is for Sci-Fi fans and so on.

The section in the book store is books BY Black authors. Doesn't matter what they wrote, cause their black, they go in that section. That's what people find wrong about it.

It's like it their was a channel on TV where only shows by black writers were shown. If one of your writers are black, you get put on that channel. Doesn't matter whether it's comedy, sci-fi, soap or documentary.

Why not throw them all into "Romance" and let the buyer discriminate (based on the colour of skin of the cartoonish woman in heels on the cover?).

Hey, sometimes it's a muscular, shirtless scottish highlander.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, sometimes it's a muscular, shirtless scottish highlander.

I was referring to the sub-genre of romance about girlfriends and girl power finding the perfect man in the modern urban world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The difference is that BET (the equivalent up here in Canada) is television FOR black people. Just like TSN is TV for sports lovers and Space is for Sci-Fi fans and so on.

The section in the book store is books BY Black authors. Doesn't matter what they wrote, cause their black, they go in that section. That's what people find wrong about it.

This is not true. The African-American fiction section is fiction based around 'being black' and 'black issues.' Usually it is dominated by 'street novels.'

Michael Jordan's book is not in the african american section. Maya Angelou's books go in poetry. Same with Langston Hughes. L.A. Banks books are in horror...

At least that is how it was in Borders, where i worked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is not true. The African-American fiction section is fiction based around 'being black' and 'black issues.' Usually it is dominated by 'street novels.'

Michael Jordan's book is not in the african american section. Maya Angelou's books go in poetry. Same with Langston Hughes. L.A. Banks books are in horror...

At least that is how it was in Borders, where i worked.

Okay, second question... For white readers that shop at Borders - when was the last time you went browsing for a novel in the "African-American" literature section? They'd likely respond with, "The what? There's not an African-American literature section. Black history section, sure, but..." To which I respond that yes, yes there is a section of Borders - usually a small corner about a shelf and half wide - where the vast majority of fiction by black authors is shelved. It's where Alice Walker goes. It's where you'll most readily find Toni Morison. It's where I found Edward P Jones' The Known World for the first time. (After he won the Pulitzer and MacArthur "Genius" Grant and about every other literary award possible Borders might have saw fit to move him into the regular literature section. Might. But he began in AFAM.)

Honestly, this section of the store really exists, and all you have to do to get into it is to be black (not even American, just black at all).

I know all of this because that's where my first two novels (Gabriel's Story and Walk Through Darkness) go - when they're actually stocked at all. Yes, Pride of Carthage is in general fiction and Acacia is in fantasy, but my publisher had to push hard for the big chains to see the work instead of the color of its author. I know this. They told me this. And they said one of many reasons to get out of that tiny section was that it would immediately mean the stores would buy more copies, display them where people might see them - and therefore we’d sell more copies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is saying (ok I am not saying) that every choice of author placed in that section is correct. Just that some authors should be placed there. Of course, the fact that Butler is placed there is wrong, and DAD's publisher shouldnt have had such a struggle to place his books in fantasy and gen-fiction.

The section in the book store is books BY Black authors. Doesn't matter what they wrote, cause their black, they go in that section. That's what people find wrong about it.

It is also FOR Black readers and people of other races interested in African American issues. As I said before, it makes for easy categorization. Where would you look for books on say, the Reconstruction? Or a biography of Booker T Washington? Hidden behind the bios of every dead white male who has been President?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...