And an altogether different take on fantasy

[salinea]

Yup. I live in strange place, you know. Quite different from most EU

Hey! I have Polish friends on LJ, they never mention their monarchist friends

I knew one guy who did this argument, but he did admit it was a "faery" and surreal way to see it. (he wasn't the most down to earth guy I've ever known).

Callibandear: I agree that the artcicle was horrible and badly informed. But I think the subject of political conservatism in fantasy is interesting in itself.

[Tom the Merciful]

The fact that he's revelling in his ignorance of the books, of the author, and everything else, on top of his obvious completely batty unwillingness to budge an inch from his pigheadedness, just makes it damned frustrating to read.

Expect no less from a true liberal!

;-)

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

Hey! I have Polish friends on LJ, they never mention their monarchist friends

I knew one guy who did this argument, but he did admit it was a "faery" and surreal way to see it. (he wasn't the most down to earth guy I've ever known).

In my demographic extreme right-wingism was quite chic, for obvious reasons (military coup of 1981 was formative experience for my generation). Between younger people such worldview is less popular (at least I hope so, I don't have any hard numbers to support this opinion).

[salinea]

In my demographic extreme right-wingism was quite chic, for obvious reasons (military coup of 1981 was formative experience for my generation). Between younger people such worldview is less popular (at least I hope so, I don't have any hard numbers to support this opinion).

That makes sense... here's to hoping

[Tom the Merciful]

In my demographic extreme right-wingism was quite chic, for obvious reasons (military coup of 1981 was formative experience for my generation). Between younger people such worldview is less popular (at least I hope so, I don't have any hard numbers to support this opinion).

Situation is not much different in Croatia. In general, people are too emotional about politics which makes it really hard to elect proper government and to establish a "normal" state. I fell like we're constantly swinging between extremes. And all extremes are quite close due to their "extremeness".

Most people here are uneducated in democracy, but as Karl Popper stated "It's no failure of democracy as system that people are ignorant, it's their own failure." Of course, there's more to it - there was a historical obligation of the first elected government (1990) to educate people, but they failed. In fact, they didn't even try. They just took the power and misused it. As in all CEE countries, next election led back to (ex)communists and next back to the "democrats" and so on. Everybody failed to notice that the proffesional government disappeared and that we lost any social values we had, without reinstating new ones. This is what I call Anarchy-Balkan style.

[Paddy]

I'm still reading through the comments here, but this Green Gaidin dude just came up with an unbelievable statement in response to Galactus (arilou)

Why is that odd? I thought that was more or less obvious. A normal, well adjusted human being can write about a murderer, for example, and not be one himself. But writers are known for and identified by the ideologies expressed in their writing.

So... writers are not normal, well-adjusted human beings and cannot disassociate what they write about from reality???

WTF?

[Zap Rowsdower]

Imagine if Gordon Brown turned up to save a village wielding a six-shooter!"

All this discussion around Gordon Brown has made me think. Does anyone else agree that if Gordon Brown were to personally execute people (like Ned Start, or Darth Vader) and showed up in beleaguered villages for the sole purpose of filling some banditos full of lead, he would be the coolest world leader ever?

Some one around here needs to write a Gordon Brown short story or something using those above themes and then try and get it published.

[Ran]

Zap,

I think the narrative would be far more interesting if it featured the Iron Lady. Thatcher as Judge Dredd ... hell, it's probably already been done.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Isn't that called a biography?

[mormont]

Zap,

I think the narrative would be far more interesting if it featured the Iron Lady. Thatcher as Judge Dredd ... hell, it's probably already been done.

Wrong strip. Thatcher made a cameo of sorts in Robohunter, but AFAIK she didn't ever appear in Dredd.

[Robert's Last Bastard]

A bit like people using expressions like "it's so gay" or "don't puss out" aren't really homophobic or sexist, they just use the expression?

Clichés can validate a world view. I do agree it's different because fiction is often a fantasy (in the more traditionnal sense of the world), a feel-good scenario that we like to explore for reasons which have little to do with real aspirations. But there's still ideas in them. Sometimes conservative or authoritarian ideas. Sometimes we don't even realise it when we read and write it.

Now that's just silly !

[Zahir al Daoud]

I'm sorry, but this article seems like a classic example of examining fiction as if it were an essay. My own belief is that (good) fiction writers are primarily storytellers, that as artists they are attempting first and foremost to create an experience to be felt by their audience.

This does not bring the novel (even of a genre the above author openly dislikes and admits does not "get") out of the realm of ideas, but rather approaches them from a different direction.

For example, in THE GAME OF THRONES, the incident of Lord Stark beheading a man is not intended as some kind of dramatised argument in favor of the death penalty. It is not about the death penalty at all, but an introductory moment for a character and a world. Insisting--or even suggesting--that the functions of storytelling take a back seat to propogandizing an issue not even directly related to the subject matter seems to me a rather extreme case of "not getting it."

From my own experience, I can avow that fans of fantasy fiction actually attract a broad sampling of the political spectrum. Each reads into the works some kind of reassurance of their own values--including one person I know who insists LORD OF THE RINGS is about the sacred nature of property rights! Yet many others look upon the same work and see a powerful plea for racial tolerance as well as the value of mercy. Tolkien thought this a function of "history" (in which the reader actively gleams what truth they can from events) rather than "allegory" (wherein the author force-feeds thoughts to the reader). He dubbed his books history, albeit feigned. Methinks that a good distinction for many fine works of literature.

Fundamentally, I find most classify art as primarily one of three things: Decoration, Propoganda or Experience. More, advocates of each are often quite firm in believing their POV the only valid one.

Case in point--this essay. And my response to it.

[PhelanArcetus]

Zap,

I think the narrative would be far more interesting if it featured the Iron Lady. Thatcher as Judge Dredd ... hell, it's probably already been done.

I want to see and read this. If I was a better writer I'd be tempted to do enough research to depict her character accurately and try my hand.

[Maltaran]

Yup. I live in strange place, you know. Quite different from most EU

I didn't know you were British!

[Ser Greguh]

Sigh. This mindset is actually quite common among ego-obsessed "reviewers" that are overly fond of the sound of their own word processor. Any depiction of a society that doesn't share the values of the reviewer (particularly exacerbated by depictions of sympathetic characters within this society that don't specifically denounce the society) is automatically embracing that society. Bill O'Reilly logic. Utterly unimaginative.

[The Wolf Maid]

Why is that odd? I thought that was more or less obvious. A normal, well adjusted human being can write about a murderer, for example, and not be one himself. But writers are known for and identified by the ideologies expressed in their writing.

Wait, then what do you call the 'normal, well-adjusted human being who writes about a murderer'? Isn't he technically a writer too?

Many writers do write and are identified by the ideologies in their writing, but not all of them. Broad, sweeping statements FTW.

[Damaen]

people who say or do radical things online - especially those who run blogs or 'content reviewal' websites - love this thread.

the author picks the largest fantasy author and tears him apart. and im sure he has had 10x the traffic on his website and im sure he is laughing.

[Stubby]

I'm sorry, but this article seems like a classic example of examining fiction as if it were an essay.

.....

Case in point--this essay. And my response to it.

Sometimes a story is just a story. There is not necessarily a "message," implied or otherwise. To me, this is what the blogger doesn't "get" about fantasy.

[Werthead]

Moving into territory now.

[Ran]

It wasn't there already from the inception? As you indicated earlier, the guy will never budge an iota from whatever ill-considered position he's chosen to take.