Guy Gavriel Kay

[Calibandar]

I think Lions is a good place to start. I'll tell you why.

Tigana is a highly succesful book that won the World Fantasy Award and is featured on most people's " best fantasy ever" lists. However it is slow too begin and long, and especially the slow start may put you off. Lions is not so slow to begin, and shorter.

Fionavar is a work I love but vastly different from everything else that he has written. Maybe not as mature no, but powerful and very poignant. I rate it pretty much as high as the Lord of the Rings itself. It also has several wonderful scenes that you may remember years later.

Song for Arbonne I still have to read. Last Light is a great book with a northern setting but it's not as powerful as Tigana or Lions. Ysabel I also still to have to read, but while I know it is slight, I do really look forward to it. But I wouldnt' advise starying with Ysabel.

[Guest]

I think Lions is a good place to start. I'll tell you why.

Bought "Lions" yesterday, although now I'm caught up in the appendix of TTT, so I won't start it until probably this weekend.

[Multaniette]

everything he's written is amazing.

ysabel hasn't received any love so far but I think it is his most tightly polotted story - and extremely hard to put down.

[Crannogman]

I agree with the majority. Kay is great. Upon reading his books for a second time, I've discovered I love them all, even the ones I thought slightly less good the first time. (excepting Fionavar, which I've only half-read, and Ysabel, which I haven't read.)

However, I would also state that Kay is just about the anti-Bakker. Seriously, it is hard to imagine how much further apart two writers can get whilst staying in more or less the same genre.

Bakker's world is dark, huge, very gritty, filled with unpleasant characters most of whom are ineffectual and moved by circumstances beyond their control. (unless their name is Kelhus.) It deals with massive wars, world-spanning plots, the death of millions, has graphic violence and sex and psychological cruelty and torture as well.

Kay's worlds are smaller, melancholy, filled with tons of very smart and sensible and reasonable and sympathetic characters (even the more ruthless ones) and a small handful of cardboard cutout villains, all of whom are the driving force of the books: even if there does happen to be a war going on, it's about how these few characters affect the war and are affected by it, rather than the war itself meaning anything. Kay's work has violence, isn't sanitised, doesn't pull punches, and if anything has some sex scenes in his oeuvre that appear gratuitous in that they seem completely unlinked to the plot at hand. But nonetheless, it is not at all gritty. Definitely not dark. Even when the protagonist dies or a story arch end unhappily the defining tone is melancholy rather than despair. No Akka going off into the desert here.

Both writers are very good, but I would say that Kay's work is beautiful, whilst Bakker's is thought-provoking and disturbing.

[Guest]

Both writers are very good, but I would say that Kay's work is beautiful, whilst Bakker's is thought-provoking and disturbing.

As much as I loved Prince of Nothing, I would sure agree that "disturbing" is a word that applies well.

[Werthead]

I think GGK and Bakker's writing styles are comparable, but they go in totally different directions with it. GGK is broadly optimistic without being cloying and seems to have a real belief in humanity. RSB, to put it mildly, is pessimistic and cynical. Both are fantastic writers and I would rank them alongside one another solidly in the highest tier of modern epic fantasy.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

Tigana is a highly succesful book that won the World Fantasy Award and is featured on most people's " best fantasy ever" lists. However it is slow too begin and long, and especially the slow start may put you off. Lions is not so slow to begin, and shorter.

It was actually only nominated.

It is my favourite Kay novel, with Lions as a second.

When I was younger (12-15) I used to reread Tigana several times a year, but I always skipped the Dianora sections and focused on Devin's story. I still rated it as one of my favourite novels though, and I started to read about Dianora later on and still liked it as much.

[williamjm]

I agree with most of what has been said so far. Kay is probably my second-favourite fantasy author (after GRRM). He's good at characterisation, plotting and world-building and the books tends to be very addictive to read. As some people have mentioned he does occasionally have a few writing quirks that can sometimes detract from the story a bit (such as the vignettes detailing minor character's future lives in Last Light of the Sun).

I'd rate the books something like:

1 - Tigana

2 - The Sarantine Mosaic (although as Wert says, it should really have been one book rather than two. It's also very slow to start with, so not the best choice to read first)

3 - A Song For Arbonne

4 - The Lions of Al-Rassan

5 - Ysabel

6 - The Last Light of The Sun

I've not read Fionovar yet, although since apparently Ysabel is a semi-sequel to Fionovar maybe I should have read it beforehand.

[Crannogman]

Well put, Werthead. That's more or less what I was skirting around without managing quite to get it down to the essentials.

[automne]

I'm happy I didn't start with The Fionavar Tapestry. If I had, I doubt I'd have read another book by G.G. Kay and I'd have missed out on one of my favourite novels which is The Lions of Al-Rassan.

[Crates of Thebes]

I absolutely abhorred Tigana and because of that I've been afraid to pick up anything else by Kay.

Here is what I sent to a friend who had read it, when we were discussing it by e-mail:

Generally speaking, I was repulsed by the theme of the story, which was very nationalistic. I never felt the pain of the characters because I find the idea of being so attached to a place so foreign. Not only have I not experienced the love of a homeland, but I also find the idea archaic; I associate nationalism with totalitarianism, so I was resistant to the idea from the beginning. The idea of basing your identity on where you are from seems empty to me. Perhaps I could've overcome these feelings if I could've felt why Tigana was so important to the characters ( i.e. what was so special or unique about Tigana, but I was always left feeling that there wasn't anything special except that it was their homeland, and so to my eyes, it didn't seem like it was any better than any of the other countries).

I also found the execution of the story lacking. Not that the prose was terrible, but I don't think it was outstanding. It's more the world itself, and its mechanics. For example, when the prince captures the magician because he is the prince of Tigana, I groaned. The foreshadowing of this event was obvious and therefore clumsy, and the perpetration of the event stretched credulity, even within a fantasy world. Also, I really like gritty descriptions of the way the "magic forces" of a given world work, or at least some deeper understanding, or even hint of depth, and I didn't get that feeling or understanding from the magic users in this world. The whole going into the night world and fighting the zombies and discovering a secret magic to save the day was too fortuitous for my tastes. (Perhaps Martin and his no-sacred-characters-or-events take on fantasy has spoiled me.)

I have this weird way of explaining which books I like. If I like a book, I am able to picture in my head the world as if through a video camera - it is gritty, real, it is like watching a movie or real life. Such works that I can do this with are Tolkien's and Martin's. Books I don't like, or don't like as much, I am only able to picture as if they were a cartoon. Everything has the quality of cell animation about it, and not photorealism. Books like that to me are anything by Brooks, Eddings, and Tigana.

[lumer]

I read Fionavar first by Kay and really loved it. Yes it's cliche, it's overly melodramatic and what not, but it's written well enough for me to enjoy. It's very different from all of Kay's other work, but I like not just as much

[williamjm]

I absolutely abhorred Tigana and because of that I've been afraid to pick up anything else by Kay.

On of the points you raise shouldn't be such a big problem for his other books. There's very little magic at all in Lions or Sarantium so it shouldn't bother you as much (although since there's hardly any magic obviously there's not much explanation for it either). I agree the prince having the ability to capture the magician was a bit of a contrived plot device (Kay does have an occasional weakness for a contrived plot device sadly).

As for the nationalism, I think part of the point of Tigana is that the patriotism of the main characters isn't necessarily a good thing - for example the wouldn't be in the situation they are in if they hadn't stubbornly continued to fight in an obviously lost cause against the original invasion and, as you say, Tigana isn't really superior to the other countries. It is also implicitly and explicitly (by the magician) questioned whether Alessan's "end justify the means" philosophy is justified. Personally I don't consider it to necessarily be a disadvantage if I don't agree with the main characters' viewpoints in a novel but your taste may vary. It is important for character motivations to be believable but I don't think the patriotism is unrealistic since, whether or not it is justified, there are plenty of equally patriotic people in the real world - you say it is an archaic concept but it's still alive nowadays even if that is not a good thing when taken to extremes.

[Crannogman]

I personally liked the "enlightened dictator" character in Tigana best. Sure, his grudge against Tigana was above and beyond all reasonableness, but other than that he was actually becoming a good ruler, someone who was improving the lot of the people, something which Allessan by no means was certain to do.

Of course, the other dictator, what's his name, was a cardboard-cutout-villain, like I referred to above.

But yeah, the melodramatic patriottism in Tigana was a bit much. I wanted to hit many of the main characters for it. Still loved the book.

[Caligula_K]

I personally liked the "enlightened dictator" character in Tigana best. Sure, his grudge against Tigana was above and beyond all reasonableness, but other than that he was actually becoming a good ruler, someone who was improving the lot of the people, something which Allessan by no means was certain to do.

I think we were meant to sympathise with Brandin- and I did, possibly more than I did with Devin. I think taking Tigana as being pro-nationalistic is missing the point- I think that it rather is an attempt to show how nationalism can and has shaped personal identity- and I think that it becomes apparent that this is not necessarily a good thing and not necessarily a bad thing, Brandin and cardboard cutout villain representing two sides of the same coin if you follow me.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Brahm_K

[Balefont]

I'll add my take on Kay's writing is that he writes beauty. He captures beauty well (and not in that all his characters are described as beautiful). When distilling the written language down to the one word I feel best describes Kay, the word is: Art.

That said, I enjoyed Tigana and Arbonne. I couldn't put down Last Light of the Sun. Yet, Lions of Al-Rassan is hands down my favorite Kay novel. Read it twice, even.

I'm, coincindentaly, reading Fionovar and am about to finish book two. I'm not a big fan of "Dark Lord Fantasy" but it's holding my interest and I'm a sucker for finishing books/series.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Balefont

[oneeye]

I really like Lions, haven't tried anything else yet though

[Serious Callers Only]

I can happily say that Ysabel didn't remind me of Fionovar at all, except for some characters THAT SHOULD HAVE KEPT THEIR MOUTHS SHUT.

And a certain boar. But I associate that with the Sarantine books.

Repeat after me... there is no Fionovar Tapestry.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Serious Callers Only

[Ran]

The world would be a sadder place if there were no Fionavar Tapestry. It has some flaws, but I think its merits outweigh them considerably. A lot of the writer that he is now showed through in those first books of his.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Ran

[Astra]

I have read so far Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, The Last Light of the Sun and The Lions of Al-Rassan

Superb:

1. Tigana

2. The Last Light of the Sun

A Song for Arbonne..ehm 3 out of 5.

The Lions of Al-Rassan very fast passing but I hated politics in it and some characters ...didn't like it.