Westeros Total War: Lite

[Lord Roose Bolton]

Before you said that Stannis will be Denmark, why?? Isn't Sicily a better choice?

[Jak o the Shadows]

Before you said that Stannis will be Denmark, why?? Isn't Sicily a better choice?

Mostly I think it had to do with the faction colors. Sicily also had more of a Muslim look to some of the units as well.

[Lord Roose Bolton]

Ok, but now Stannis will have longboats?! The Greyjoys had longboats, but they won't have it in the game, cause they are HRE

[Inda]

Gampie said that every faction could have any unit, didn't he? Still, it's easier to change only naval units rather than almost every land unit.

[Jak o the Shadows]

Gampie said that every faction could have any unit, didn't he? Still, it's easier to change only naval units rather than almost every land unit.

Yeah. I think he is using the unit color/skin from factions, but is making the actual unit rosters vary from their parent faction. With the Greyjoy's he mentioned adding 3 axe units. So we will just have to wait and see what units are included when the beta version is released.

Waiting does suck though.

[DJDonegal]

I'm not sure that Gampie said every house could have every unit.

And what's wrong with Stannis having good naval units anyway? He's on fricking Dragonstone - he has nothing else.

[Lord Roose Bolton]

I didn't say he shouldn't have good units, on the contrary...I just said that he shouldn't have longboats, but galleys and war galleys or holks and cogs...

[Inda]

I'm not sure that Gampie said every house could have every unit.

I meant that he said that every faction could be given any unit, not that they had them. If wasn't Gampie, another one was, cause I have no moding idea, so I must have readed it somewhere.

[Gampie]

Back! I had to make a paper about 'Air Law and Terrorism: Recent Developments' for one of my courses. It was a success and I made the professor laugh out loud when I said during my presentation that I watched Prison Break, lol.

Maybe SEGA should pay Gampie a small percentage of its cost.

I do not require a monetary remuneration. However you can always grant me the privilege of deflowering your young maiden daughter(s), if you have any.

[/kidding]

Thanks for answering the questions Gampie...Could I possibly be a tester for the beta version when it comes out???

I don't know yet. I'll see when the beta is ready. Nevertheless I do not intend the beta to take a lot of time. The bulk of the work will be done before the beta release. Beta is for error spotting and fine tuning.

@Daeda: it surprises me that you think that most mods are open beta. My experience is the other way around. I think Lotr:TW had a closed beta, and so did Fourth Age:TW. Many mod projects have hidden forums for their beta testers. Maybe this is not the case with Valve games? I don't know.

Currently I'm more inclined to a closed beta because I don't want to risk the ire of the players if they spot spelling errors, CTD's or other filth in an open beta. I would have to apply small patches all the time and less devoted fans would probably not bother with downloading the mod again and again for new versions. I would like to present something pretty, something finished to you.

Gampie, I've developed something of a concern for family members and generals in this mod. The fact is that to keep true to the books, it's absolutely necessary to keep the turn lengths to no longer than a month, which means that new family members will be coming in at a rate of roughly one per 50 or 60 turns, which certainly will not deal with losses incurred in battle and from assassins. Obviously the more important lords from vassal houses will be included, but the fact is that due to M2:TW's system of virtually never letting a general be captured, all of the factions will need to either start with an absurd number of generals to ensure that there will be enough to last through the campaign, or there has to be some way to slow down general death in combat. Do you know if it's possible to reverse captures and kills as far as generals are concerned? That they'll be killed if running away and captured if taken down while fighting?

The solution to this is the adoption mechanism (which is hardcoded, sadly). For instance, when I start a campaign as Stannis the game considers my faction as follows:

- middle-aged man (36)

- no male heirs

- already 1 child slot taken by Shireen Baratheon, a useless female

- no other brothers or uncles, only an empty family tree (except for wife and daughter)

=> extremely perilous and prone to faction extinction

==> present adoptions at once!

That's a bit how the game engine thinks, so to speak. On the second turn of the game I ALWAYS get a "candidate for adoption, benefactor: king stannis" notification. Next turn, again. Until I have 3 new family members, adopted sons (and thus a total of 4 generals). When Shireen comes of age she is almost immediately betrothed to some guy. And the adoptions continue... So the game tries to give factions with a small family new family members.

The Stannis situation also applies to:

Arryn (Robert has no children)

Stark (Robb has no mature brothers)

Renly (alone and no kids)

Joffrey (Tommen is a minor and joff unmarried)

Tully (for christ's sake, Edmure is still not married and the old chap has no offspring yet)

[take note: the game starts with Hoster Tully being dead since he's too old to fight and the game would make him die of old age in no time]

The adoption mechanism is one of my worries for this mod. I will need to make certain decisions. I might make a post about that in the future.

Oh, and now I think about it... what happens when the king/faction leader dies? Would his heir receive the crown or the best general will do?

The faction heir will succeed the king. A general may have full stats for all his attributes, it won't matter. Heir becomes leader.

Are we looking at the traditional turn limit give or take 200?

Or will we be able to have more turns. 200 is usually plenty but with this mod I'm going to want to play without too many time limits.

Time limits can be changed in 2 seconds. I don't like to play with a time limit either so I'll make sure that the time limit is plentiful. How about 1000 turns? Enough? I wouldn't know what the disadvantages would be for setting such high time limits.

For the Generals issue, i noticed an interesting thing the other week.

In manage settlement section (place where you can build stuff from), there's an option that says automanage/recruit which is greyed out. Still, you can change the setting and manage settlements and recruit people without a general.

You can disable the greying out of that option by - when starting a new campaing - checking the box "Manage all settlements" during the faction selection screen. I always do that. Automanage sucks like hell. You can't even adjust your own taxes if you don't have a governor present!

Ok, but now Stannis will have longboats?! The Greyjoys had longboats, but they won't have it in the game, cause they are HRE

Stannis will have galleys and other boats. I have given the longboats to HRE (Greyjoy) and they work fine in-game.

And what's wrong with Stannis having good naval units anyway? He's on fricking Dragonstone - he has nothing else.

Yes, Stannis' situation is nothing short of desperate. That will be the most challenging faction.

Imagine adding religion to the game. Stannis would have to convert entire Westeros to the Lord of Light if he wants to conquer it.

[Jak o the Shadows]

Time limits can be changed in 2 seconds. I don't like to play with a time limit either so I'll make sure that the time limit is plentiful. How about 1000 turns? Enough? I wouldn't know what the disadvantages would be for setting such high time limits.

Sweet. 1000 turns would be amazing.

Great work Gampie I cant wait to see this mod.

Count me in for a beta tester.

Yeah playing as Stannis might be a bit of a challange.

[Daedalus V2.0]

I don't know yet. I'll see when the beta is ready. Nevertheless I do not intend the beta to take a lot of time. The bulk of the work will be done before the beta release. Beta is for error spotting and fine tuning.

@Daeda: it surprises me that you think that most mods are open beta. My experience is the other way around. I think Lotr:TW had a closed beta, and so did Fourth Age:TW. Many mod projects have hidden forums for their beta testers. Maybe this is not the case with Valve games? I don't know.

Currently I'm more inclined to a closed beta because I don't want to risk the ire of the players if they spot spelling errors, CTD's or other filth in an open beta. I would have to apply small patches all the time and less devoted fans would probably not bother with downloading the mod again and again for new versions. I would like to present something pretty, something finished to you.

Huh. No, I don't actually have a lot to do with Valve game's. Valve is just notorious for hiring modders who do good work (see: Counter Strike, Team Fortress). That said, almost all of the mods I've come across release lots and lots of beta versions to the public. My experience is usually:

Alpha- (Closed. Alpha versions are almost always unfinished and unstable, and usually kept to the mod team and their close friends.)

Beta- (Sometimes starts closed, usually open. By now the game is playable and testing is looking solely for bugs and balance problems. Basically, if you see a mod with V0.1-0.9 out there, it's an open beta. Almost every mod I've come across makes the beta open by the third iteration or so.)

I'm not sure if we just frequent different games or what, but I've played about 50 unfinished mods which were essentially beta versions. It's how I've always found things to work- the alpha is closed, but the instant the game gets to the point that problems become rare, it gets realeased to the public. Of course, this isn't really talking about the TW games specifically; most of the mods I've paid lots of attention to have been for pure RTS games.

The solution to this is the adoption mechanism (which is hardcoded, sadly). For instance, when I start a campaign as Stannis the game considers my faction as follows:

- middle-aged man (36)

- no male heirs

- already 1 child slot taken by Shireen Baratheon, a useless female

- no other brothers or uncles, only an empty family tree (except for wife and daughter)

=> extremely perilous and prone to faction extinction

==> present adoptions at once!

That's a bit how the game engine thinks, so to speak. On the second turn of the game I ALWAYS get a "candidate for adoption, benefactor: king stannis" notification. Next turn, again. Until I have 3 new family members, adopted sons (and thus a total of 4 generals). When Shireen comes of age she is almost immediately betrothed to some guy. And the adoptions continue... So the game tries to give factions with a small family new family members.

The Stannis situation also applies to:

Arryn (Robert has no children)

Stark (Robb has no mature brothers)

Renly (alone and no kids)

Joffrey (Tommen is a minor and joff unmarried)

Tully (for christ's sake, Edmure is still not married and the old chap has no offspring yet)

[take note: the game starts with Hoster Tully being dead since he's too old to fight and the game would make him die of old age in no time]

The adoption mechanism is one of my worries for this mod. I will need to make certain decisions. I might make a post about that in the future.

Damn. I know that the adoption system helps with this, but I was hoping for some way other than an absolutely unrealistic flooding of random, almost certainly inappropriately named characters to the factions to deal with it. It messed up M2 (note Rome so much; it was more realistic there), and it would be a sad day when "William of York" inherits the Lannister throne... If I remember correctly, you can change the rate that this happens at, yes? Isn't there a value in the code somewhere that governs how likely adoption notices are to arrive... I dunno, we had this debate back in the Perfect Diplomacy mod. About half of us wanted to just chop out adoption all together (or al least drop the likelyhood of it happening to almost zero) and significantly increase the chances of generals being captured, but nothing ever came out of it. Gah, I wish that that forum section hadn't been deleted a while back...

[Jak o the Shadows]

It messed up M2 (note Rome so much; it was more realistic there), and it would be a sad day when "William of York" inherits the Lannister throne... If I remember correctly, you can change the rate that this happens at, yes? Isn't there a value in the code somewhere that governs how likely adoption notices are to arrive... I dunno, we had this debate back in the Perfect Diplomacy mod.

With the code is it possible to change the names, ie. "William of Lannisport". Well at least add in custom names? Not sure if it is possible at all, cause I know next to nothing about the coding.

[Gampie]

Don't worry about the naming. :-)

There are NO European names left in the mod. I have put almost all the names of the books in the game and it makes random combinations. So when I get an adoption proposal it's from some guy named Flement Clegane or Mathis Redwyne or Garlan Fossoway or Harmen Dayne or Nestor Wayntree or Axell Baratheon etc.

Names are faction-specific. So you won't see a Balon Stark family member of House Tyrell. Only House Greyjoy has access to the Balon first name and only House Stark to the Stark surname. Same for the females. It's pretty neat.

As far as I know the adoption mechanism is hard-coded. Lusted stated that it can't be eliminated (and I believe it can't be altered). Too bad.

[Inda]

That seems to be a nice change, despite the hard coding.

The faction heir will succeed the king. A general may have full stats for all his attributes, it won't matter. Heir becomes leader.

Good, I really hated when the best general (even adopted ones) took over the realm, skipping the bloodline.

About the mentioned rebels' issue (hard codded):

I've looking around TWcenter website and I've found some mods changing the rebellions. Here come two links.

Anno Domini. Its developer somehow was able to chane rebels appearance parameters. Or that's what I've understood reading it.

The Long Road. This one made your generals able to rebel against you, trying to conquer your settlements and refusing to take orders. It's not the traditional rebel concept (unaligned armies spawning around the map), but in Westeros treason was really common.

I'm gonna check "Stainless Steel", for Kingdoms expansion, maybe I'll find more about this. After that, perhaps I'll try with EBII.

[Dadim]

I always enjoyed Medieval II a lot and the ASOIAF are my favorite books. I'm really wishing to get this mod. I've watched the mod for months and I became sad when it stopped.

NOW I'M HAPPY AGAIN!!

I would like to help but I'm not very good at modding. I know to change some basic things in Medieval II.

Can I enter the Beta testing? If it's a closed beta, how will you choose who participates?

[Ser Primus]

Have you ever heard of Blood, Broads, & Bastards mod, Gampie?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144311

Many of its features could be included in your mod.

[Jak o the Shadows]

Have you ever heard of Blood, Broads, & Bastards mod, Gampie?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144311

Many of its features could be included in your mod.

Looks interesting. But I think most of that has already been done for this mod. I think.

[Gampie]

Anno Domini. Its developer somehow was able to chane rebels appearance parameters. Or that's what I've understood reading it.

The Long Road. This one made your generals able to rebel against you, trying to conquer your settlements and refusing to take orders. It's not the traditional rebel concept (unaligned armies spawning around the map), but in Westeros treason was really common.

If I find the time I'll look into those mods. I've taken a look at some other features of Anno Domini and there is nice one there which enables characters to acquire nobility titles. (Actually this feature is also in Blood, Broads and Bastards). I'm planing to include some of those titles (Westeros ones of course). It shouldn't be too hard to do.

I always enjoyed Medieval II a lot and the ASOIAF are my favorite books. I'm really wishing to get this mod. I've watched the mod for months and I became sad when it stopped.

NOW I'M HAPPY AGAIN!!

I would like to help but I'm not very good at modding. I know to change some basic things in Medieval II.

Can I enter the Beta testing? If it's a closed beta, how will you choose who participates?

Hi Dadim, welcome to the forums. Help is currently not needed on the mod unless you are proficient with Photoshop. There is a lot of work in that department.

As for the beta testing: the beta has not been released yet. I still have to mod a lot of files but don't worry. Most of the work has already been done. I could however increase the scope of the mod and add stuff which I didn't intended in the beginning.

The beta will most likely be a 'closed' one. This is because I'm the only one so far who played the mod and I want at least four or five people to play the mod and spot the most erroneous anomalies. People who have contributed the most to this mod will be selected first. If I still lack testers I'll ask for volunteers who know a lot about the ASoIaF universe and are well acquainted with the M2TW mechanics.

Have you ever heard of Blood, Broads, & Bastards mod, Gampie?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144311

Many of its features could be included in your mod.

Yes, I know that mod. Most of its features are useless because they add European stuff to the mod (like a 'King of Norway' trait or certain christian stuff). The only thing that appeals to me is a script that notices the player whenever an AI faction leader has died.

I also have to announce that I've been approached by LordSnow, another ASoIaF fan, who is now doing a light reskin of the House Stark units. I can frankly say that the tentative results are promising.

[Jak o the Shadows]

I also have to announce that I've been approached by LordSnow, another ASoIaF fan, who is now doing a light reskin of the House Stark units. I can frankly say that the tentative results are promising.

Sweet. Sounds like this is going to be a great mod.

[Jak o the Shadows]

Just a couple of questions:

Is there a tenative unit list for each faction yet?

And will there be any balance changes made before beta. Such as the balance used in Kingdoms. For example dismounted knights in vanilla were 13/21, and in kingdoms they were 11/17.

Yeah just thinking of some random things.